Sakurai's recent article on competitive play got translated

[Ryuutakeshi]

Yea, but Sakurai was wrong in the conversation he had with that pro. Pro players *do* help develop games. They have for the past 20 years. Even now, Sakurai's currentdesign team likely has pro players on it helping develop the game. Sakurai now has proven the Sakurai in that interview wrong

Wait, how? Because of your assumptions?

 

[StarLight42]

blahblahblahblahlongpostblah

That doesn't mean Smash can't be a competitive game, that's silly. I watched a documentary on the smash melee scene, and the part where they mentioned Brawl was pretty depressing. I want Smash 4 to "revive" the community.

 

[Senario]

As far as the whole casual vs. competitive dynamic is concerned, keep in mind that the existence of online play complicates things quite a bit. In the Melee days you just played your friends locally and it didn't really matter whether other people were wavedashing because you'd never have to deal with them, while as soon as the series gets decent online, this changes completely. It's like Pokemon, where in Gen 3 EVs and IVs existed, but you could ignore them if you wanted to because you were just playing your friends locally. Nowadays if you're playing online you need to pay attention to these things to not get destroyed. To GameFreak's credit they've done a good job of making these mechanics more accessible to newcomers without taking them away from veterans. Sakurai certainly could've handled this issue better if, for example, he automatically halved landing lag and made the l-button a wavedash button.

I could say that would've been really cool. One of the things I like about Marvel is that they have a dedicated dash input, it is something I wish more fighting games had because pushing forward twice gets tiring for running up.

Only problem is, what would you use for shield XD? Maybe make the dash button R . Or either X or Y since they both have the same function and are redundant.

 

[KageJuin]

I can only read the first bit but I'm smiling.

Edit: ok, got the rest of it. Yeah, we're in good hands. Go Sakurai!

awesome. I agree. Sakurai is my favorite designer.
I shudder when thinking what this game would be if he listened to people on this board.
The game would probably suck.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

So you're afraid everyone will be on the same level? I mean even in a group of casuals you have people who will win most of the games. The people who are good will still be good even without wavedashing or any of the other techniques. Look at M2K and Zero who are good at all of the games even though Brawl clearly doesn't have all of the techniques Melee has. I understand the concern, but it is just plain silly. Top level players will still be top level. Removing the techniques just allows casuals to stand a get to the top level without having to learn ridiculous tricks in the process.

Yet most casual and competitive players alike will never stand a chance to reach that top level because they just won't be as fundamentally-sound players as the pros. That's how life works, folks. Take away as many glitches/exploits/techniques/whatever as you want, if you're not a good player, you're not a good player. I'd know, I suck.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Yet most casual and competitive players alike will never stand a chance to reach that top level because they just won't be as fundamentally-sound players as the pros. That's how life works, folks. Take away as many glitches/exploits/techniques/whatever as you want, if you're not a good player, you're not a good player. I'd know, I suck.

You know, it's not like I disagree with you. You're right in that no matter what, pro players will be better, but let me address a core flaw in this argument I see pop up frequently ("casuals will lose anyway so why take away AT's!")

The point isn't to give more casual players a chance to win, it's to make the idea of winning more plausible due to less of a steep difficulty curve.

The sooner you realize this the better you will understand "casual" design decisions when they happen, and find less reason to complain.

It's precisely the fact good players will continue to be good players that I'm not concerned for the competitive viability of the game. Now if there were design mechanics that could cause a casual to randomly beat someone they would never beat otherwise (forced random explosion items, a bad trip, whatever), we don't like that.

Having an 'easier' design goal doesn't make a game less competitive. Many incredibly simple games are ultra competitive.

 

[MrPanic]

Seems like everything is good. His stance hasn't changed, still has that same clear vision of what smash is supposed to be and realises it. His main aim seems to be making the game just as fun to play in a party setting as it is in a competitive setting, which sounds like the only way smash should be.

 

[Jumpman84]

EDIT: @ Jumpman84 , you're Sakurai love and bias is starting to creep me out.

Why is it creepy to admire people that have made products that have influenced your life in a positive way? There are many great people I admire, not just Sakurai. It seems silly to not be allowed to have a deep respect and admiration for people and their contributions to your life because others think it's creepy.

 

[Johnknight1]

Melee being "too hard" and "too technical" is primarily Sakurai's fault.

After all, he's the one who invented Z and L-cancelling. There's no reason it should not be an option. His reasoning that "it would be too fast for non-super competitive players" is crazy.

A lot of the mechanics in Melee require very precise timing that require hours and hours to learn. Honestly, if they were made simpler by design, you could still have the same cool things, only easier to perform.

However, harder doesn't equal worse game design.

Regardless, I think a lot of what Sakurai says is mostly the techniques. However, what he is ignoring is the fact Brawl has MORE SUCH ADVANCED TECHNIQUES!!!! Although very few of them require as precise timing as Melee, some of them do to a crazy extent.

I think that's what he's trying to get at, but he doesn't explain it properly/doesn't understand competitive play (and his games competitively) well enough to do so.

He also ignores 64... >.>

Lastly, he's dead wrong why Melee is popular, and he's an idiot for thinking that. Melee is popular because it's damn fun, pretty well balanced, comebacks happen, the combos are cool, the edge/on stage game both have huge roles, and quite frankly anything can happen. That makes it a player, viewer, and livestream favorite, whereas Brawl and 64 don't have that same level of appeal for all 3 points-of-view.

Also, hard work is supposed to pay off. Sorry, but I'm a capitalist, which is why I believe in hard work. The people who work the hardest at 64, Melee, and Brawl win those games. That's why Mango beat everyone at EVO and MLG this year: he worked harder. That's why Isai always wins in Smash 64. That's why Ally, Mew2King, ADHD, and others are constantly winning Brawl tournaments.

That's why a game released in 1999 by HAL Laboratories and Nintendo was successful whereas a game released in 2012 by SuperBot Entertainment and Sony wasn't.

I mean, I get he doesn't want there to be a barrier there, but you don't have to be a prick about it and act like you know more than anyone else.

After all, games are for the consumers to dictate what they do in games, not their creators. That's why video games are open-ended, and why they put the control in the HANDS of the PLAYERS who payed for them with their hard earned money.

(God I want the Tekken team to take full-time control of Smash)

 

[Hydde]

Since Brwal i have always been aware that sakurai is an idiot
.

Nothing new

 

[Gidy]

Anyone remember my "Maybe it's time for director" thread? I think it fits in here.

Whelp, so much for that middle ground.

 

[Johnknight1]

You're not a jerk for caring about his health. You're a jerk for not wanting Sakurai to make more Smash games.

Does that make me a jerk for not wanting Micheal Bay to not make any more Transformers movies=???

Honestly, you calling someone a jerk because they want someone else to make Smash games instead shows me how immature, intolerant, and quite frankly insecure you are.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

That doesn't mean Smash can't be a competitive game, that's silly. I watched a documentary on the smash melee scene, and the part where they mentioned Brawl was pretty depressing. I want Smash 4 to "revive" the community.

I never stated that Smash can't be a competitive game, I was just backing Sakurai up on what he had said about Smash 4 being a mix to cater to all audiences.

 

[Jumpman84]

Melee being "too hard" and "too technical" is primarily Sakurai's fault.

After all, he's the one who invented Z and L-cancelling. There's no reason it should not be an option. His reasoning that "it would be too fast for non-super competitive players" is crazy.

A lot of the mechanics in Melee require very precise timing that require hours and hours to learn. Honestly, if they were made simpler by design, you could still have the same cool things, only easier to perform.

However, harder doesn't equal worse game design.

Regardless, I think a lot of what Sakurai says is mostly the techniques. However, what he is ignoring is the fact Brawl has MORE SUCH ADVANCED TECHNIQUES!!!! Although very few of them require as precise timing as Melee, some of them do to a crazy extent.

I think that's what he's trying to get at, but he doesn't explain it properly/doesn't understand competitive play (and his games competitively) well enough to do so.

He also ignores 64... >.>

Lastly, he's dead wrong why Melee is popular, and he's an idiot for thinking that. Melee is popular because it's damn fun, pretty well balanced, comebacks happen, the combos are cool, the edge/on stage game both have huge roles, and quite frankly anything can happen. That makes it a player, viewer, and livestream favorite, whereas Brawl and 64 don't have that same level of appeal for all 3 points-of-view.

Also, hard work is supposed to pay off. Sorry, but I'm a capitalist, which is why I believe in hard work. The people who work the hardest at 64, Melee, and Brawl win those games. That's why Mango beat everyone at EVO and MLG this year: he worked harder. That's why Isai always wins in Smash 64. That's why Ally, Mew2King, ADHD, and others are constantly winning Brawl tournaments.

That's why a game released in 1999 by HAL Laboratories and Nintendo was successful whereas a game released in 2012 by SuperBot Entertainment and Sony wasn't.

I mean, I get he doesn't want there to be a barrier there, but you don't have to be a prick about it and act like you know more than anyone else.

After all, games are for the consumers to dictate what they do in games, not their creators. That's why video games are open-ended, and why they put the control in the HANDS of the PLAYERS who payed for them with their hard earned money.

(God I want the Tekken team to take full-time control of Smash)

Wow, and here I thought you were a cool guy who understood what Smash was about... but I guess not.

 

[Hydde]

Wow, and here I thought you were a cool guy who understood what Smash was about... but I guess not.

Is all about being a fun game, which appeals to hardcore and casuals.

Sak seem to not undertsand that simple concept.

Whos the idiot now?

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

You know, it's not like I disagree with you. You're right in that no matter what, pro players will be better, but let me address a core flaw in this argument I see pop up frequently ("casuals will lose anyway so why take away AT's!")

The point isn't to give more casual players a chance to win, it's to make the idea of winning more plausible due to less of a steep difficulty curve.

The sooner you realize this the better you will understand "casual" design decisions when they happen, and find less reason to complain.

It's precisely the fact good players will continue to be good players that I'm not concerned for the competitive viability of the game. Now if there were design mechanics that could cause a casual to randomly beat someone they would never beat otherwise (items, a bad trip, whatever), we don't like that.

Having an 'easier' design goal doesn't make a game less competitive. Many incredibly simple games are ultra competitive.

I get that, I just am of the opinion that games should be made more accessible because it's good game design, rather than because some people feel upset about their failures. To me, making a good game should be a much more important and respectable goal for a game designer than getting someone to shut up.

Not destroying the hopes of newcomers is a great and powerful thing, but I feel that when people want the game to be simple for that reason, their motives for desiring a better game are selfish and lacking objectivity.

If you've seen pretty much anything from DNSQ or especially Sequelitis, I think you'll understand what I mean.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Alright guys let's cool it. Warnings have been given out to those who are out of line. While a discussion on the translated article is allowed, flaming/name calling if other members are not. If it continues, the moderators will issue out infractions.

As well, there's no need to jump to Sakurai's aid and there's no need to verbally bash him. Don't be so dramatic people, sheesh. We can have a good discussion about this translated article without joining teams and verbally bashing each other for subscribing to a particular view on how Smash should be played.

 

[Shaya]

So for lack of a better word, this thread has legitimately been caustic. I'm willing to open this again purely due to respecting the level some individuals have put effort into their responses here. For those few who were being problematic, you should stop being antagonistic/spammy/otherwise

 

[Egg-Off the Conquerer]

Wait, how? Because of your assumptions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._for_Nintendo_3DS_and_Wii_U

Namco Bandai including members of the tekken and soul calibur development teams. Those teams both have ex-pros on them. Also, there was a picture on reddit of a pro smash player standing in front of the Namco Bandai building in shinagawa. So no, not just my assumptions.

Pro players help develop competitive games. It is a common practice and has been for a long, long time.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

So for lack of a better word, this thread has legitimately been caustic. I'm willing to open this again purely due to respecting the level some individuals have put effort into their responses here. For those few who were being problematic, you should stop being antagonistic/spammy/otherwise

Honestly, I can't say that I'm surprised it got like this. The community has been so stir crazy and paranoid these last few weeks.

I get it, I really do. I know I'm not a member of the community and never will be but I really do understand. You want this game to be good. You want it to breathe life back into the franchise and not disappoint you like Brawl did (well, for some of you.)

And I know that Brawl shook your faith in the creator because it wasn't what you were used to or even wanted it to be (again, for some of you). However, I'm not sure that that or this article warrents some of the anger I've been seeing directed at Sakurai. We could discuss how the translation may have garbled the message but I don't read japanese and couldn't give you a better understanding of it.

What I can say is that this isn't the first time I've seen Sakurai say stuff like this. I read an interview once where he states how he really likes the players who just buy his games and have fun with them. And I know you guys do have fun. It's different from my method but hardly incorrect.But threads like this... it's when it gets like this and people are saying the guy shouldn't even be working on his own project that I start to see his point.

I'm not innocent. I've gotten more than a little short with various people on this site out of sheer frustration. But I really do think that we need to, as fans of the series, take a step back, breathe, and wait these last 5 weeks. Go crazy then. Critique the game to your heart's content. But until then, the threads about smash not being competitive, or Sakurai not knowing what he's doing... does anyone really think threads like that are going to end well?

I don't know what I'm trying to accomplish with this post that I'm trying to type out on my phone and not screw up. Maybe I just am getting tired of everyone at each other's throats or not thinking things out and running solely on emotion. I don't know. But I'll reiterate what I said earlier. I believe we are in good hands. I truly think that Smash 4 will be the game that brings this community back together and reinspires confidence in the man who is ultimately responsible for us being here. And if not, I imagine you guys will work something out. Me, I'll be kicking ass in all my Ylissean finest in the Coliseum.

You may crucify when ready.

@ Egg-Off the Conquerer okay, gotcha.

 

[Metal B]

Everybody, who acts surprise at his words, has never actually read anything about the development of the series. Sakruai stated multiply times, that one of the main motivation for creating Smash Brothers, was his dislike of practice techniques in fighting games. He was a big fighting game fan, but he just couldn't stay update with all the new combos, advance techniques and other stuff, because of the real life being too time consuming. Which in return mean, that it was really hard to stay comparative even on an basic level. So he wanted to create a fighting game, where every player can simply pick up the controller and be on the same level as an experience players with the controls.

Which doesn't mean, that there shouldn't be any depth to the game! This is only about breaking up the barriers for new players and don't discourage them with a tough leaning curve. That's why he sees Melee as a failure of those principles. Technics like L-Cancel and Wavedashing need practice and an deeper understanding of the game. Yes many Casual-Player played and loved Melee, but those never or rarely played against experience players. As soon as anybody learns those techniques, than the relationship between players get unbalanced and will spoil the fun for the casual and the experience player. Either on can't catch on or the other has to hold back.
"Easy to learn, hard to master" is the philosophy of the game.

 

[HeavyLobster]

The thing is, Sakurai's actually starting to make a few concessions to accommodate competitive players, concessions which clearly should've been made all along, though the wants of the competitive community still seem to be secondary to what he considers to be the needs of the casual community. Smash 4 is a game which probably would've been fairly well received had we gotten it instead of Brawl, even if parts of the community still preferred Melee. However, he burned so many bridges with Brawl that the community's attitude toward Smash 4 is far more skeptical and less trusting when Sakurai wants to take the series in a different direction. I do think the game will be fundamentally sound as a competitive fighter, though it'll be subject to much more scrutiny than it would've had it come out in 2008 due to the strength of Melee and Project M. I do think everything will work out, but we need to settle down and see what happens with Smash 4 before we call for Sakurai's head.

 

[Luigi#1]

Does that make me a jerk for not wanting Micheal Bay to not make any more Transformers movies=???

Honestly, you calling someone a jerk because they want someone else to make Smash games instead shows me how immature, intolerant, and quite frankly insecure you are.

My opinion has been dwindling for days after that dispute over the Ninka leak and the elitist stance you took.
You sped up the process.

 

[Black Hayato PTA]

To start I'll remind people that translations from Japanese have to be interpreted and localized because a statement most of the time cannot be directly translated for context in your specific country. Dialect from various parts of America aren't even consistent from region to region so words like maniac could easily just mean enthusiast, fanatic, or hardcore.

I think the article is saying a lot of things that are true. Games that are made purely with competition in mind have a barrier of entry that limit its mass market appeal which is why some game studios have trouble even releasing sequels to very popular series (see: street fighter 5 and various other franchises). He mentions it being an action game with fighting elements which in reality I believe he simply means that its a non traditional fighter that has an expansive amount of elements that aren't just limited to controlled 1 vs 1 environments with the randomness and chaos in those settings creating a different playstyle that is inconsistent with traditional fighting.

With that all being said, the later part of the article says that he didn't create the game solutions with a blanket in mind that said okay this needs to be more like 64 when making melee or this needs to be less like melee when making brawl, he made them with the mind of the market he was making the game for. He realized Wii had a ton of casual owners and had to make it more accessible to accommodate that particular group more than he would have to on the gamecube as the gamecube was a pure gaming machine that appealed to just the normal non casual gaming core. With the Wii U version of smash, he recognizes the division of gameplay mentalities and has decided that while I can still have that accessible feel he has to have something that creates depth as well. He is taking the philosophy that its possible to appeal to casuals and making the game seem easy to play but keeping tons of features that allows the enthusiasts to learn and dig deeper with a high enough ceiling to make sure the game does stagnate or reach in pinnacle quickly (low floor high ceiling). With brawl, he wasn't even considering that path at all and was going for a completely casual experience (low floor low ceiling).

A great example of casual at first glace, but deep gameplay is Persona 4 Arena. When I first saw persona, I watched a group of casual players having a blast in their fights, but I noticed the combos seemed very repetitive. I wondered why as the visual style looked like an aksys game (which I found out it was later on) and aksys makes very hardcore games (guilty gear and blazblue) with a ton of varied control systems and almost completely new mechanics for each character in some cases. I was worried with what I saw initially, but the game still looked fast and fun but I thought it lacked depth and the combos were stifled. That is when I learned that the people playing were mostly just using the auto combo button. When I sat down to play with them and noticed there was an auto combo button, I was almost bewildered trying to figure out why this would be a good idea or if it were balanced or if this was the only reliable way to make combos because at first i couldn't string together very viable ones otherwise (because I played it like blazblue). After playing a while, I decide the game is fun regardless and I trusted Aksys to have something deep that I just hadn't discovered in my play session. I got home bought the game and began to play and then wandered into mission mode. I realized there were crazy deep combos and control systems that I hadn't even realized. I didn't notice how to tie these combos in at first and realized the combos were very frame specific making it a lot easier to drop them making it so you really had to make tight execution even though some of the input was simplified.

I say all that to say this: I learned that reducing the skill level needed to hop into the game did not hinder my enjoyment nor did it ruin high end competition because of the depth they added underneath that more casual look. It made casual players who never would play those kind of games happy they could do something cool and gave them options while allowing me to go home and master a game in a way they couldn't wrap their head around. If Sakurai is truly going for that kind of gameplay where at first glance it seems simple but after hours poured in you start to see how deep the game really is, then I am 100% in support and agree with that approach as a competitor and a fan as it helps keep us playing and it also helps our franchise that we love able to produce more iterations without the fear of there never being another smash brothers.

If he doesn't add the depth tho like he said he would in this interview, we're pretty much ****ed LOL (I'm sure he will. He made melee guys! Have faith!)

 

[Renji64]

Nothing new in most of his interviews he keeps talking about how he only cares about the new player's experince. Ever since brawl he has been trying to create this artifical depth. That is why i just accepted from a gamepaly standpoint the smash series is dead. If your a veteran player your experince always feels subpar and watered down. Lowering the skill ceiling instead of having aways for casuals that want to play competitively learn to get good. I understand why people don't respect smash at all in the fgc. Smash used to have great movement now u can barley move or do anything at all it is just gonna be one campy no skill game like brawl. I hope smash gets a new director that actual knows what a middleground is.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Nothing new in most of his interviews he keeps talking about how he only cares about the new player's experince. Ever since brawl he has been trying to create this artifical depth. That is why i just accepted from a gamepaly standpoint the smash series is dead. If your a veteran player your experince always feels subpar and watered down. Lowering the skill ceiling instead of having aways for casuals that want to play competitively learn to get good. I understand why people don't respect smash at all in the fgc. Smash used to have great movement now u can barley move or do anything at all it is just gonna be one campy no skill game like brawl. I hope smash gets a new director that actual knows what a middleground is.

Don't you think you're being a little unfair? There's a lot of casual players that don't care about competitive options. That's why we're casuals. Isn't it just as important that we also have a fun and exciting game available for us to pick up and play? I think it's good that Sakurai is contuing to develop this dead franchise or both parties, and I think there's more than a few competitive and casual players who like what they see. I certainly can't wait to play again.

 

[Renji64]

Don't you think you're being a little unfair? There's a lot of casual players that don't care about competitive options. That's why we're casuals. Isn't it just as important that we also have a fun and exciting game available for us to pick up and play? I think it's good that Sakurai is contuing to develop this dead franchise or both parties, and I think there's more than a few competitive and casual players who like what they see. I certainly can't wait to play again.

The casuals side has nothing to worry about. Brawl(was pretty much just for them) Smash 4 is a extention of brawl they have it nice. If you were someone who liked the fun fast paced of melee or even elements of n64 you are out of luck. you get less options each installment and the competieve side feels watered down. If people liked brawl they will like anything he puts out.

 

[HeavyLobster]

it is just gonna be one campy no skill game like brawl.

It's really amazing that in 2014 there are still people who say that Brawl takes no skill to play.

 

[Second Power]

The only thing that really bothers me about this articles is "Maniacs" and the fact he doesn't consider smash a fighting game. That'd be like George Lucas insisting Star Wars isn't sci-fi. Smash is mechanically a fighting game, just because those mechanics are applied in a different way doesn't change the genre.

 

[Deleted member]

Just saw the title of this thread; fasten your seat belts, there's gonna be some wars here.

 

[Renji64]

It's really amazing that in 2014 there are still people who say that Brawl takes no skill to play.

It feels that way to me it takes skill to still be top level of course.

 

[Nintymat]

Someone needs to tell Sakurai that Melee was mostly played by casuals and only a tiny % of the install-base used the advanced techniques he put in the game.

God damn, I don't know where he gets this mentality the Melee was too complex. It is the Gamecube's best selling game with over 7 million copies sold. But sure, Sakurai, Melee was too 'advanced' and new players didn't buy it, obviously.

There's a lot of Sakurai-jerk around here, where people just lap up anything he says. I don't question his commitment to the series and to video game making, but I question his ability to MAKE A GAME WHICH CATERS TO SEVERAL DIFFERENT AUDIENCES.

It's almost certainly a Japanese thing. Nintendo are in the **** right now with their terrible WiiU sales because it's a console that neither fully-caters much for the casual players nor does it fully-cater for the 'hardcore' gamers. Instead it sits in this **** middle ground and no-one owns one. What a surprise that a leading Japanese game developer is evidently failing to understand you can reach multiple audiences if you design your product correctly.

The worst part is this: Nintendo Of America seem to get it. The amount they have been involved (sponsoring EVO, Reggie addressing the Smash community etc) seems like they ****ing understand. They know SSB4 will sell like hot-cakes regardless, so why not include 'hidden' competitive elements to help drive sales of the game even further, without alienating casual audiences.

There was no tutorial for Wavedashing or L-cancelling, we figured that **** out ourselves. And guess what? It didn't make a damn different to little Timmy and his younger brother littler Johnny because they never knew about these techniques and they were happy watching Mario and Bowser fight.

All these comments are subject to what i've seen so far of SSB4, and I hope I am wrong and Sakurai proves me wrong. But for now, I am disappointed in the competitive aspect of SSB4. Also, disappointed in the Sakurai white knights who will lap up anything he does. That dude could make SSB5 one-button only and you guys would rejoice over it.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Just saw the title of this thread; fasten your seat belts, there's gonna be some wars here.

There wouldn't be any if people stopped jumping down each other's throats as soon as competitive play is mentioned. Seriously.

 

[josh bones]

The fact that melee was the gamecube's best selling game should tell you how little the competitve scene is. The diffrence between now and then is wifi, where they will see those things.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

The only thing that really bothers me about this articles is "Maniacs" and the fact he doesn't consider smash a fighting game. That'd be like George Lucas insisting Star Wars isn't sci-fi. Smash is mechanically a fighting game, just because those mechanics are applied in a different way doesn't change the genre.

Well, technically it's space opera. It's more of a fantasy set in space but tomato, tomato.

I do agree though. best fighting/action/party/trophy collecting game around.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Back on topic, my original impressions post left out one thing; that comment about the Wiimote. I found this quite odd. Sakurai believes that making a control scheme suited to the Wiimote is ideal for a casual audience. Is it though? There is a thing called the Nunchuk which everyone has lol. More to the point, I'm just having a hard time trying to stomach the idea that not being able to turn off tap jump is accommodating to every player. When you can't do an Utilt without inputting the Up during another action, there's something wrong. This is exacerbated by the lack of a control stick on the Wiimote, so its pressure sensitivity can only register so much. In this case, how long you held jump, not whether or not you even jumped at all. I get that the Wiimote had limited buttons, but I don't think this was really the best way to do it. I know of casual players who prefer button jumping, even if I personally liked tap jumping better for a long time (I only made the switch early this year haha).

 

[SmashShadow]

L-cancelling could easily have been made universally non-existent if all the aerials had the same amount of lag they would've had with the technique being used all the time. Wavedashing could've easily have made a single button input. Neither one was that difficult to do but having to consistently pull them off during a match was the challenging part for most. There would still be plenty of depth if these were more accessible to everyone.

 

[josh bones]

Back on topic, my original impressions post left out one thing; that comment about the Wiimote. I found this quite odd. Sakurai believes that making a control scheme suited to the Wiimote is ideal for a casual audience. Is it though? There is a thing called the Nunchuk which everyone has lol. More to the point, I'm just having a hard time trying to stomach the idea that not being able to turn off tap jump is accommodating to every player. When you can't do an Utilt without inputting the Up during another action, there's something wrong. This is exacerbated by the lack of a control stick on the Wiimote, so its pressure sensitivity can only register so much. in this case, how long you held jump, not whether or not you even jumped at all. I get that the Wiimote had limited buttons, but I don't think this was really the best way to do it. I know of casual players who prefer button jumping, even if I personally liked tap jumping better for a long time (I only made the switch early this year haha).

I might be nitpicking, but you have to buy nunchucks seperate from extra wiimotes.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

I might be nitpicking, but you have to buy nunchucks seperate from extra wiimotes.

I'm aware, but unless my perception of the average Wii owner is completely incorrect, generally people have the same number of Wiimotes as they do Nunchuks regardless of how they obtained said Nunchuks.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Back on topic, my original impressions post left out one thing; that comment about the Wiimote. I found this quite odd. Sakurai believes that making a control scheme suited to the Wiimote is ideal for a casual audience. Is it though? There is a thing called the Nunchuk which everyone has lol. More to the point, I'm just having a hard time trying to stomach the idea that not being able to turn off tap jump is accommodating to every player. When you can't do an Utilt without inputting the Up during another action, there's something wrong. This is exacerbated by the lack of a control stick on the Wiimote, so its pressure sensitivity can only register so much. in this case, how long you held jump, not whether or not you even jumped at all. I get that the Wiimote had limited buttons, but I don't think this was really the best way to do it. I know of casual players who prefer button jumping, even if I personally liked tap jumping better for a long time (I only made the switch early this year haha).

Also, your thumbs really start to hurt after a bit. Sad that I never got the hang of the nunchuk.