Sigma Busters (Name Pending): Official Discussion Thread

[Kirbeh]

I forgot to mention, I think Wyrm's species should be somewhat related to Aremi's in order to better explain/facilitate moves like the pinecone missile and finger gun acorn stuff. So instead of being able to produce full on flames, they have a sort of sawdust/gunpowder like substance for producing small explosions/explosives.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Cricket is not what I had in mind at all. (Why'd you even bring it up?)

I was already brainstorming/doodling before this post, so I failed the "roundness" stipulation. Also, not what I was expecting to be honest, I associate "round" with softness. Kirby, marshmallows, stuff like that. Curves are soft. Like how people say soft curves vs hard/sharp edges you know?

Anyway, I extrapolated on the guardian and loose fairy tale influence. My concept is a fairy godmother esque queen of a species based on moths/butterflies (for the fairy look and some utility with the wings serving as his cape), weaver ants (nest in trees without destroying them, generally used as natural deterrent to plant pests) and leaf bugs (leaf-like wings for flight, or just extra jumps in this case.) The appearance/vibe intended is more standard feminine/motherly than what you originally had in mind, plus she's lightly clinging to his shoulders/back rather than inside his eye socket.

As stated above, in this way, her own wings serve as his cape, gently enveloping him and also serving as his extra jumps. By being outside of his head and on his back, she can more easily be of actual assistance for certain attacks like kicking at opponents behind him for a Back Tilt, etc.

For Wyrm himself, I gave him the gnarled bark shoulders you originally wanted to give Aremi as well as small "horn" branches in place of leaf hair to further differentiate their designs. And rather than halving a hollowed-out knothole, I made half of his face like the rings inside of a tree. The bark that made up the left side of his face having been peeled away. He's still got a mostly puppet inspired body, but rather than a standard doll head, I went with a more forest spirit sort of look for his head/face.

For the damage dealing dodge, this design would replace the use of a swarm with a dust cloud of wing scales.

For the actual swarm-based character, I will also propose a new fighter based on what you originally had in mind, termites, plus some locust and potentially wasp or mantis mixed in. In addition to making use of the swarm idea, they could serve as a counterpart to the duo, being a predator to both species. (No doodles for that as of yet as I want to know your opinion on the idea first/suggestions if any.)

And lasty, along with these additions to the bug-based characters, I have an additional proposal for the Mytan Queen to double down on the aquatic aspect and combine crustaceans with cephalopods for a more monstrous/parasitic alien look. (No doodles yet either.) This makes her more distinct while moving away from the insect basis and making the roster more varied.

Spoiler

View attachment 386638

I brought up a cricket since you know Wyrm has a bit of a Pinnocio aesthetic to him, and Jimminy Cricket is his conscious.

I quite like it, I do say that Tamm could have some inspiration with other famous butterflies or moths, like maybe she could have a slightly more insectoid mixing buttleflies and wasps with maybe a stinger tail, sorta how Mothra looks in the modern Godzilla films, she is still mostly humanoid though.That way I can change the Side Special to have Tamm shoot drill-shaped harpoons for stingers, with the Hyper Special releasing a numbing toxin to slow down the opponent. The moth aspect can emphasize her graceful design, while the wasp-like stinger sheds light on her more protective aspects. The new special also fits this personality, as its more used as a keep-away tool rather than a kill move or poking tool. Tamm's wings could also glow a variety of colors when performing a Hyper Special, sorta like a combination of Navi from Ocarina of Time and Tippi from Super Paper Mario. Maybe rather than get a different tint of color when Wyrm is under a different mood, Tamm's wings will change from Red, Blue, or Yellow to reflect this change, and it will turn rainbow when they perform a Hyper Special.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I forgot to mention, I think Wyrm's species should be somewhat related to Aremi's in order to better explain/facilitate moves like the pinecone missile and finger gun acorn stuff. So instead of being able to produce full on flames, they have a sort of sawdust/gunpowder like substance for producing small explosions/explosives.

Wyrm's species is a bit weird, basically his species usually looks like traditional ents, but they don't mature in a normal way, rather, they grow for many decades until gaining an mobile elderly body. Wyrm was prematurely awakened due to Tamm accidentally awakening him MUCH earlier than he should of, leading to his younger body. Since Tamm is technically a pest species that needs to eradicated, and Wyrm is considered a "patient zero" some unscrupulous people are trying to hunt both down. So Tamm, feeling guilty over this hole situation, decide to take Wyrm in be his guardian. If anything he could be allied with Kowalski due to similar origins of being hunted down, with Chell being sorta both of their personal villains. Maybe Levi and Wynnie could also assist them secretly due to technically needing to hunt them, but having a personal crisis on not hurting who's essentially a child.

 

[Kirbeh]

I brought up a cricket since you know Wyrm has a bit of a Pinnocio aesthetic to him, and Jimminy Cricket is his conscious.

I quite like it, I do say that Tamm could have some inspiration with other famous butterflies or moths, like maybe she could have a slightly more insectoid mixing buttleflies and wasps with maybe a stinger tail, sorta how Mothra looks in the modern Godzilla films, she is still mostly humanoid though.That way I can change the Side Special to have Tamm shoot drill-shaped harpoons for stingers, with the Hyper Special releasing a numbing toxin to slow down the opponent. The moth aspect can emphasize her graceful design, while the wasp-like stinger sheds light on her more protective aspects. The new special also fits this personality, as its more used as a keep-away tool rather than a kill move or poking tool. Tamm's wings could also glow a variety of colors when performing a Hyper Special, sorta like a combination of Navi from Ocarina of Time and Tippi from Super Paper Mario. Maybe rather than get a different tint of color when Wyrm is under a different mood, Tamm's wings will change from Red, Blue, or Yellow to reflect this change, and it will turn rainbow when they perform a Hyper Special.

Bee/wasp queen was something I considered but decided against. For wasps specifically, they tend to be more aggressive and have lots of honestly pretty brutal species like the Tarantula Hawk, so I thought such inspiration would be better reserved for a different character. Then for both bee and wasp, the bulbous backside and stinger clashes with the character silhouette and use of the wings as a cloak/cape, hence the more humanoid leaning anatomy. Plus, it'd be extra work animation wise on an already busy character. If she were solo then maybe, but because they operate as a duo keeping the designs from getting to busy is more important since you have both of them to work with.

Similarly, for gameplay, I think the stinger/toxin combo is better served on another character. That more focus can be placed on using the stinger for attacks and the toxin can be a more unique aspect to them. Wyrm and Tamm already have the multiple buff system going on so I would refrain from piling on too many gimmicks.

I do really like the wing scales changing color for the buffs though, I think that works a lot better than just having Wyrm glow.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Bee/wasp queen was something I considered but decided against. For wasps specifically, they tend to be more aggressive and have lots of honestly pretty brutal species like the Tarantula Hawk, so I thought such inspiration would be better reserved for a different character. Then for both bee and wasp, the bulbous backside and stinger clashes with the character silhouette and use of the wings as a cloak/cape, hence the more humanoid leaning anatomy. Plus, it'd be extra work animation wise on an already busy character. If she were solo then maybe, but because they operate as a duo keeping the designs from getting to busy is more important since you have both of them to work with.

Similarly, for gameplay, I think the stinger/toxin combo is better served on another character. That more focus can be placed on using the stinger for attacks and the toxin can be a more unique aspect to them. Wyrm and Tamm already have the multiple buff system going on so I would refrain from piling on too many gimmicks.

I do really like the wing scales changing color for the buffs though, I think that works a lot better than just having Wyrm glow.

Do you think I should keep the Acorn and Pinecone Missiles, or make Tamm do a different side special? I still want a keep-away projectile for the two to use. Also do you think the Up Special is a bit lame, I think it can work like Snake in that Wyrm can do other attacks after the recovery, just not two recoveries in a row, to make up for the fact its a non damaging move. Also I might cut the whole Cape attack working differently in the air, which may make the recovery TOO strong. But I like the rest of the attack, with the standard Cape flipping opponents while the Hyper Special trips them, do you think using this Hyper Cape in the air can allow the duo to spike opponents since that is essentially an aerial trip, might be a bit too toxic unless if its a very weak spike.

 

[Kirbeh]

Wyrm's species is a bit weird, basically his species usually looks like traditional ents, but they don't mature in a normal way, rather, they grow for many decades until gaining an mobile elderly body. Wyrm was prematurely awakened due to Tamm accidentally awakening him MUCH earlier than he should of, leading to his younger body. Since Tamm is technically a pest species that needs to eradicated, and Wyrm is considered a "patient zero" some unscrupulous people are trying to hunt both down. So Tamm, feeling guilty over this hole situation, decide to take Wyrm in be his guardian. If anything he could be allied with Kowalski due to similar origins of being hunted down, with Chell being sorta both of their personal villains. Maybe Levi and Wynnie could also assist them secretly due to technically needing to hunt them, but having a personal crisis on not hurting who's essentially a child.

I mean, as part of the Tamm redesign, she would no longer be a pest species and carry a different backstory. Plus, you already kinda did the pest species in need of eradication thing with the Mytan concept.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I mean, as part of the Tamm redesign, she would no longer be a pest species and carry a different backstory. Plus, you already kinda did the pest species in need of eradication thing with the Mytan concept.

Well I mean since both Tamm and Myten were both from other parts of the galaxy, and with how one species became an ecological threat, its no surprise the rest of the galaxy would treat the other the same way.

 

[Kirbeh]

Do you think I should keep the Acorn and Pinecone Missiles, or make Tamm do a different side special? I still want a keep-away projectile for the two to use. Also do you think the Up Special is a bit lame, I think it can work like Snake in that Wyrm can do other attacks after the recovery, just not two recoveries in a row, to make up for the fact its a non damaging move. Also I might cut the whole Cape attack working differently in the air, which may make the recovery TOO strong. But I like the rest of the attack, with the standard Cape flipping opponents while the Hyper Special trips them, do you think using this Hyper Cape in the air can allow the duo to spike opponents since that is essentially an aerial trip, might be a bit too toxic unless if its a very weak spike.

I vote in favor of the acorns/pinecones. I actually really the idea of turning acorns into bullets and pinecones into missiles or grenades.

For Up Special I think we could maybe change it be like the Pits. Tamm puts in the effort for a big wing flap than sends them high but wears her out. So essentially, she's the one who goes into free fall, but you can still act out of it because Wyrm is the main fighter of the duo.

For the Cape, I think it should function the same in the air as it does on the ground, however, I do think we could give them the added ability to use the cape/wings to glide a little. Not the crazy Brawl gliding, but a proper continuous descent than can help a little extra for recovery if they get launched far. This wouldn't be a special mind you, just an extra action they have. Probably by holding the jump button like Peach's float. Basically, what you already head, but as a normal action.

Back to the Down Special though, I think rather than making opponents trip, the Hyper version could have Tamm be more forceful and create a gust of wind and wing scales that extend the attack range and deal a bit of extra damage. The base move isn't very strong or meant for attacking head on, but the Hyper could be a decent mid-range multi-hit as the opponent gets caught by the wind. It'd sort of be like if Robin's rapid jab could be launched forward a short distance as a projectile.

Well I mean since both Tamm and Myten were both from other parts of the galaxy, and with how one species became an ecological threat, its no surprise the rest of the galaxy would treat the other the same way.

That'd be a different situation entirely though.

My version of Tamm isn't meant to be an actual pest/ecological threat, but you can still use the galaxy's unfamiliarity/caution as a means of having them jump the gun and try to capture her/kill her (depending on the faction.) You could have it so her people arrived within close proximity to the Double Sigma on an unrelated expedition of their own and got caught in a mix up. Maybe they were trying to arrive before the Sigma to warn the rest of the galaxy of the threat headed their way. Maybe they were on the Sigma too but as prisoners and were indiscriminately slaughtered by those who went to deal with the other threats. There's lots of ways you could still tie her into the eradication/bounty plot point.

In any of the above scenarios she still makes her way to the Oaklan planet and stumbles upon Wyrm while trying to hide from her pursuers. Maybe have some of the people hunting her be completely ruthless, not caring about the damage they do while hunting her leading to them killing a lot of the slumbering Oaklan people and not caring if they have to kill Wyrm either. Both having lost everything, and Tamm wanting to take responsibility, they stick together with Tamm doing everything she can to protect her newly adopted child while they both remain on the run. Only to be surprised of course that Wyrm would be doing just as much fighting and protecting of his own given the abilities of his species.

Then for character interactions, Kowalski could have sympathy for them and form a sense of comradery. Levi and Wynnie would offer them protection not knowing that non-threat species had made their way over as well. Depending on how good or evil you want to make Chell maybe she only wants to capture them to collect on a bounty over actually killing them or have an arcade where she doesn't encounter them until the very end and upon realizing her bounty was a child gives up on it and goes back to kill her employer.

I ended up writing more than I thought I would, but yeah, those are my ideas for a revised backstory.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I vote in favor of the acorns/pinecones. I actually really the idea of turning acorns into bullets and pinecones into missiles or grenades.

For Up Special I think we could maybe change it be like the Pits. Tamm puts in the effort for a big wing flap than sends them high but wears her out. So essentially, she's the one who goes into free fall, but you can still act out of it because Wyrm is the main fighter of the duo.

For the Cape, I think it should function the same in the air as it does on the ground, however, I do think we could give them the added ability to use the cape/wings to glide a little. Not the crazy Brawl gliding, but a proper continuous descent than can help a little extra for recovery if they get launched far. This wouldn't be a special mind you, just an extra action they have. Probably by holding the jump button like Peach's float. Basically, what you already head, but as a normal action.

Back to the Down Special though, I think rather than making opponents trip, the Hyper version could have Tamm be more forceful and create a gust of wind and wing scales that extend the attack range and deal a bit of extra damage. The base move isn't very strong or meant for attacking head on, but the Hyper could be a decent mid-range multi-hit as the opponent gets caught by the wind. It'd sort of be like if Robin's rapid jab could be launched forward a short distance as a projectile.


That'd be a different situation entirely though.

My version of Tamm isn't meant to be an actual pest/ecological threat, but you can still use the galaxy's unfamiliarity/caution as a means of having them jump the gun and try to capture her/kill her (depending on the faction.) You could have it so her people arrived within close proximity to the Double Sigma on an unrelated expedition of their own and got caught in a mix up. Maybe they were trying to arrive before the Sigma to warn the rest of the galaxy of the threat headed their way. Maybe they were on the Sigma too but as prisoners and were indiscriminately slaughtered by those who went to deal with the other threats. There's lots of ways you could still tie her into the eradication/bounty plot point.

In any of the above scenarios she still makes her way to the Oaklan planet and stumbles upon Wyrm while trying to hide from her pursuers. Maybe have some of the people hunting her be completely ruthless, not caring about the damage they do while hunting her leading to them killing a lot of the slumbering Oaklan people and not caring if they have to kill Wyrm either. Both having lost everything, and Tamm wanting to take responsibility, they stick together with Tamm doing everything she can to protect her newly adopted child while they both remain on the run. Only to be surprised of course that Wyrm would be doing just as much fighting and protecting of his own given the abilities of his species.

Then for character interactions, Kowalski could have sympathy for them and form a sense of comradery. Levi and Wynnie would offer them protection not knowing that non-threat species had made their way over as well. Depending on how good or evil you want to make Chell maybe she only wants to capture them to collect on a bounty over actually killing them or have an arcade where she doesn't encounter them until the very end and upon realizing her bounty was a child gives up on it and goes back to kill her employer.

I ended up writing more than I thought I would, but yeah, those are my ideas for a revised backstory.

Yeah, in terms of stories, there are 3 main plot points I picture focusing on: first, the infestation of dangerous exotic species from outside the galaxy and the rise in poaching and smuggling due to these new appearances. Kowalski would likely be the focal point of this plot with Wrym and Tamm also being heavily associated as well. Then there is the rookie space cop and her partner doing a whole buddy cop thriller as they become intertwined with bounty hunters and criminals, that would likely be taken up by Wynnie and Levi. Maybe they can form an enemy mine with Erycles, who at first is painted as a evil bounty hunter but in reality is a rebel on his home planet, and the trio then discover a wide govermental conspiracy that has something to do with the Mytans. Finally Aremi, Ahab, and EPSILON travel to Double Sigma itself to get to the bottom of LAMBDA's threats. Something like that.

Also I think it would be better for Tamm to be named Mary and Wyrm be called Nettle, so Mary-Nettle, or Marionette.

 

[Kirbeh]

Yeah, in terms of stories, there are 3 main plot points I picture focusing on: first, the infestation of dangerous exotic species from outside the galaxy and the rise in poaching and smuggling due to these new appearances. Kowalski would likely be the focal point of this plot with Wrym and Tamm also being heavily associated as well. Then there is the rookie space cop and her partner doing a whole buddy cop thriller as they become intertwined with bounty hunters and criminals, that would likely be taken up by Wynnie and Levi. Maybe they can form an enemy mine with Erycles, who at first is painted as a evil bounty hunter but in reality is a rebel on his home planet, and the trio then discover a wide govermental conspiracy that has something to do with the Mytans. Finally Aremi, Ahab, and EPSILON travel to Double Sigma itself to get to the bottom of LAMBDA's threats. Something like that.

Also I think it would be better for Tamm to be named Mary and Wyrm be called Nettle, so Mary-Nettle, or Marionette.

"Maybe they can form an enemy mine"

A what now?

Also, Erycles lives in a quiet port town on a fairly peaceful planet (not his own home planet btw, just where he settled down). He does have a criminal background but put that life behind him many years ago, now basically being the intergalactic equivalent of a trucker. He sets out to drag the local youth back home after they recklessly head out to the Double Sigma in search of adventure/glory.

"Finally Aremi, Ahab, and EPSILON"

Not the group I was expecting to confront LAMBDA honestly. from what you've explained so far, Aremi and Ahab seem like the most far removed from the main plot.

What even is LAMBDA's deal anyway?

"Also I think it would be better for Tamm to be named Mary and Wyrm be called Nettle, so Mary-Nettle, or Marionette."

Wha-? How do get marionette from Mary and Nettle? That's not even a reach, it just doesn't make sense. We'll come up something different eventually.

I've asked a couple of times, but you still haven't ever answered how you decide names.

 

[Glubbfubb]

"Maybe they can form an enemy mine"

A what now?

Also, Erycles lives in a quiet port town on a fairly peaceful planet (not his own home planet btw, just where he settled down). He does have a criminal background but put that life behind him many years ago, now basically being the intergalactic equivalent of a trucker. He sets out to drag the local youth back home after they recklessly head out to the Double Sigma in search of adventure/glory.

"Finally Aremi, Ahab, and EPSILON"

Not the group I was expecting to confront LAMBDA honestly. from what you've explained so far, Aremi and Ahab seem like the most far removed from the main plot.

What even is LAMBDA's deal anyway?

"Also I think it would be better for Tamm to be named Mary and Wyrm be called Nettle, so Mary-Nettle, or Marionette."

Wha-? How do get marionette from Mary and Nettle? That's not even a reach, it just doesn't make sense. We'll come up something different eventually.

I've asked a couple of times, but you still haven't ever answered how you decide names.

For me when I make names, I want to make names that fit with the character, some times is use puns like with Levi and Wynnie being a play on Leviathan and Wyvern, but I just try to find names that fit with the character, Wyrm and Tamm just feel hard to name.

I'll be back in an hour btw, so I can't really awnser the other stuff you said. Though I lime your idea with Erycles.

 

[Kirbeh]

For me when I make names, I want to make names that fit with the character, some times is use puns like with Levi and Wynnie being a play on Leviathan and Wyvern, but I just try to find names that fit with the character, Wyrm and Tamm just feel hard to name.

I'll be back in an hour btw, so I can't really awnser the other stuff you said. Though I lime your idea with Erycles.

That's not what puns are. Puns are about the use of double meanings for words with multiple meanings or two words that are spoken the same.

Taking a portion from "leviathan" to get the name "Levi" was still a good idea imo, but it's not a pun.

Chell can be a pun, assuming you were using her use of guns as a play on "shell" as in the ammunition. Which I assume is in fact what you had in mind. The double meaning/play on words being shell the item and Chell the name which while different words sound exactly the same.

I guess to rephrase the question, what do you look for in a name that "fits." Puns being one option as you already said.

Erycles concept hasn't changed since the original post, so nothing new there.

 

[Glubbfubb]

That's not what puns are. Puns are about the use of double meanings for words with multiple meanings or two words that are spoken the same.

Taking a portion from "leviathan" to get the name "Levi" was still a good idea imo, but it's not a pun.

Chell can be a pun, assuming you were using her use of guns as a play on "shell" as in the ammunition. Which I assume is in fact what you had in mind. The double meaning/play on words being shell the item and Chell the name which while different words sound exactly the same.

I guess to rephrase the question, what do you look for in a name that "fits." Puns being one option as you already said.

Erycles concept hasn't changed since the original post, so nothing new there.

Sometimes I do a play on words for the name, other times like in the case of Aremi and Kowalski there is no deep meaning and I just they looked like an Aremi or Kowalski, it's that simple.

 

[Glubbfubb]

EX 003: Wyrm and Tamm

Spoiler: Wyrm and Tamm's Moveset

Name - Wyrm and Tamm
Gender - Male (Wyrm) Female (Tamm)
Species - Oaklan (Wyrm) and Rainbow Crystlids (Tamm)
Origin - With the return of the Double Sigma came not only a threat from a galactic scale, but a potential threat from an ecological scale. Ever since the ship made its return, several new and exotic life invaded the galaxy, some causing untold ecological harm. Rainbow Crystlids, a small butterfly like species, are not one of these species, being a rather peaceful race that wander the galaxy absorbing stardust in their wings as nutrients. However the fear that these potential invaders caused has caused the species to be hunted indiscriminately, especially by poachers as their colorful wings make great jewelry. Wanting to hide from the thread, a Crystlid named Tamm hid in the heavily forested planet of Birchun and tried to set of a nest inside what looked like a small tree. Unbeknownst to her, the stardust in her wings accidentally woke up a young Oaklan, a tree-like species that like cicadas spend many years hibernating in a deep slumber to renew their old bodies. While usually very ancient in appearance and personality, the Oaklan that awoken was comparable in to a small child. Not wanting the rest of the slumbering species to be tainted, bounty hunters, law enforcement, and poachers, all want to neutralize the young Oaklan in order to get paid. However, it seems that Tamm, feeling remorseful for the misfortune given to the boy, decided to be the boy's guardian and together they wander the galaxy looking for a new place to hide.

Appearance - Wyrm is a rather small child-like being with the build and personality of a young toddler, with a body made out of gnarled bark and green leaves making up what looking like hair. He resembles a marionette doll, with the distinctive joints or the wooden toy and feet resembling clogs. Wyrm only has one eye, with the right eye being intact while the left is gashed, resembling a knothole. On his back rides Tamm, a humanoid moth-like creature with glowing multi-colored wings that often changes different colors to match her mood. She sometimes disguises herself as a cape for Wyrm to wear in order to divert suspicion from herself.

Archetype - Zoner/Stance Changer
Gimmick - Butterfly Flight

• Using her wings, Tamm gives Wyrm extra midair jumps, up to 4 in fact, the second most jumps in the game behind Weevle.

Intended Strengths -

• Wyrm unique Neutral Special, Mother Mayfly, allows him to be very adaptable, helping him with either survivability, power, or mobility.
• Wyrm is excellent long rang, with solid zoning options and spindly limbs that act like mini-sword swings.
• Wyrm has both solid ground and air mobilty, meaning he doesn't lack in one stat.

Intended Weaknesses -

• If he is not encouraged, Wyrm's melee attacks are quite slow and laggy.
• While not a light weight, he still isn't all that durable.
• Wyrm sometimes relies too much on Mother Mayfly, meaning he can be vulnerable if he doesn't have one on standbye.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B-
Running Speed - A-
Traction - B+
Jump Height - B+
Air Acceleration - B-
Fall Speed - C
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Spindly Spinner – A spinning set of jabs that spin like a wheel, end the jab cycle to perform an uppercut.
Forward Tilt - Cedar Swing – A spindly swing with Wyrm's arms, the range is quite long, though the speed is a bit lacking.
Up Tilt - Flighty Flipper – Tamm comes out of Wyrm's head to give a protective flurry of punches, better used as a keepaway option.
Down Tilt - Pinwheel Kick – Spinning in a 360 degree motion, Wyrm spins a leg all around himself in a jerky motion, you can actually hold the attack to spin continuously, though the later hits are quite weak.
Back Tilt - Wingcutter – Tamm cuts the opponents backwards with her wings, very quick and safe, great for combo starters.
Dash Attack - Tripping Tackle – Wyrm trips over with some force, while the attack is quilt strong and can KO, the speed can be lacking.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Sturdy Cedar – Wyrm winds his fist before performing a stiff punch forward, has quite the range due to Tamm straitening his arm.
Up Charge - Butterfly Blade - Tamm spins around Wyrm rapidly, forming a tornado that sucks opponents upwards, quite weak but good for combo starting.
Down Charge - Limp Branch – Wyrm falls over like a ragdoll, damaging anyone around him with a dust cloud.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Articulated Kick – Wyrm clumsily performs that kick a lot of familiar fighters use as a move like this. The move is weak in the beginning and end but much stronger in the middle.
Forward Air - Cobble Clog – A swinging axe kick with the heel of Wyrm's foot spiking the foe downwards, quite a safe move to use.
Up Air - Frantic Swatter – A move for juggling where Tamm performs a cutting motion with her wings, good for vertical combo starting.
Down Air - No Strings Attached - A spindly twin punch from below to fling opponents to the side, good range but slow speed.
Back Air - Mother's Meteor – From behind Tamm performs a surprisingly familiar swinging punch with the capability to spike. Quite strong but lacking in range due to Tamm's... stubby appendages.

Grabs:
Pummel - Scolding Slap - Tamm scolds the assailant with some harsh and rather hurtful words.
Forward Throw - Too Pushy? - Tamm shoves the opponent backwards, it doesn't launch them, but rather trips them for follow up combos.
Down Throw - The Boot - Wyrm's boot like feet bury the opponent into the ground.
Back Throw - I Can Handle This - Wyrm takes back Tamm and performs a retaliatory kick to push opponents back, his weakest throw.
Up Throw - Sonnly Slam - Wyrm performs an uppercut, impressing Tamm, this uppercut is quite a potent kill throw.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Mother Mayfly – Tamm decides to give some words of encouragement to help Wyrm, she can give these words in one of several tones:

• Caring - Wyrm is tinted yellow and gains increased speed due to a new pep in his step, though he becomes lighter due to his new carefree bliss.
• Concern - Wyrm is tinted cyan and becomes more defensive, being heavier in weight but weaker in attack.
• Assertive - Wyrm is tinted red and becomes more assertive, his attacks do increase knockback, but he loses some mobility.

This move can't be used willy nilly, Tamm's helpful advice can only go so far, you need some time between words of encouragement to try again. When you lose your current vibe you have to wait a bit before you can use this move again, though you can speed up the wait by spending some Hyper Meter, though you can't use vibes cosistantly.

Side Special - Acorn Missile – Wyrm shoots explosive acorns from his fingers that travel in a straight line but slow their acceleration in the air before exploding, can really catch people off guard.

• Side Hyper - Pinecone Missile – The pinecone doesn't explode, rather, it continuously drills into the opponent for continuous damage, good for trapping opponents.

Down Special - Brushing Wing - Tamm flips her large wings forward like a cape, this flips over opponents to the other side and can also reflect projectiles. When done in the air, this slows Wyrm's descent.

• Down Hyper - Moth Scales – Tamm scatters small scales to create a large gust of wind that Wyrm flings out like a projectile, the projectile is very weak but deals very high knockback.

Up Special - Rising Swallowtail - Tamm uses her large wings to perform a powerful leap into the sky, the angle of the leap can be directed in one of the 8 cardinal directions. While it doesn't deal damage it sends the duo very far and while Wrym can't use it multiple times in a row, he can use other moves when exiting this move.

• Up Hyper - Moth Bomb - Sacrificing a little bit of total distance, Tamm flies much more powerfully, allowing Wyrm to use this move offensively. There is a powerful sweetspot to this move that can KO at low percents if lined up properly. The move also has a small amount of invincibility in the beginning and ends of the move.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Butterfly Burst – Tamm charges rainbow energy to create a powerful pulse, the direct center of the attack has an incredibly powerful sweetspot that can KO at low percents, but the attack has very high ending lag.
Level 2 - Wyrmwood - Using his ancient roots, Wyrm becomes giant tree that shoots a giant explosive acorn.
Level 3 - Mother's Love – Tamm gives a very loving word of encouragement, giving him both the speed, weight and power boost from all of her pep talks.

Kirbeh using the updates you suggested, I made some major changes to some of Wyrm and Tamm's moveset and backstory. How do you like it?

 

[Kirbeh]

EX 003: Wyrm and Tamm

Spoiler: Wyrm and Tamm's Moveset

Name - Wyrm and Tamm
Gender - Male (Wyrm) Female (Tamm)
Species - Oaklan (Wyrm) and Rainbow Crystlids (Tamm)
Origin - With the return of the Double Sigma came not only a threat from a galactic scale, but a potential threat from an ecological scale. Ever since the ship made its return, several new and exotic life invaded the galaxy, some causing untold ecological harm. Rainbow Crystlids, a small butterfly like species, are not one of these species, being a rather peaceful race that wander the galaxy absorbing stardust in their wings as nutrients. However the fear that these potential invaders caused has caused the species to be hunted indiscriminately, especially by poachers as their colorful wings make great jewelry. Wanting to hide from the thread, a Crystlid named Tamm hid in the heavily forested planet of Birchun and tried to set of a nest inside what looked like a small tree. Unbeknownst to her, the stardust in her wings accidentally woke up a young Oaklan, a tree-like species that like cicadas spend many years hibernating in a deep slumber to renew their old bodies. While usually very ancient in appearance and personality, the Oaklan that awoken was comparable in to a small child. Not wanting the rest of the slumbering species to be tainted, bounty hunters, law enforcement, and poachers, all want to neutralize the young Oaklan in order to get paid. However, it seems that Tamm, feeling remorseful for the misfortune given to the boy, decided to be the boy's guardian and together they wander the galaxy looking for a new place to hide.

Appearance - Wyrm is a rather small child-like being with the build and personality of a young toddler, with a body made out of gnarled bark and green leaves making up what looking like hair. He resembles a marionette doll, with the distinctive joints or the wooden toy and feet resembling clogs. Wyrm only has one eye, with the right eye being intact while the left is gashed, resembling a knothole. On his back rides Tamm, a humanoid moth-like creature with glowing multi-colored wings that often changes different colors to match her mood. She sometimes disguises herself as a cape for Wyrm to wear in order to divert suspicion from herself.

Archetype - Zoner/Stance Changer
Gimmick - Butterfly Flight

• Using her wings, Tamm gives Wyrm extra midair jumps, up to 4 in fact, the second most jumps in the game behind Weevle.

Intended Strengths -

• Wyrm unique Neutral Special, Mother Mayfly, allows him to be very adaptable, helping him with either survivability, power, or mobility.
• Wyrm is excellent long rang, with solid zoning options and spindly limbs that act like mini-sword swings.
• Wyrm has both solid ground and air mobilty, meaning he doesn't lack in one stat.

Intended Weaknesses -

• If he is not encouraged, Wyrm's melee attacks are quite slow and laggy.
• While not a light weight, he still isn't all that durable.
• Wyrm sometimes relies too much on Mother Mayfly, meaning he can be vulnerable if he doesn't have one on standbye.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B-
Running Speed - A-
Traction - B+
Jump Height - B+
Air Acceleration - B-
Fall Speed - C
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Spindly Spinner – A spinning set of jabs that spin like a wheel, end the jab cycle to perform an uppercut.
Forward Tilt - Cedar Swing – A spindly swing with Wyrm's arms, the range is quite long, though the speed is a bit lacking.
Up Tilt - Flighty Flipper – Tamm comes out of Wyrm's head to give a protective flurry of punches, better used as a keepaway option.
Down Tilt - Pinwheel Kick – Spinning in a 360 degree motion, Wyrm spins a leg all around himself in a jerky motion, you can actually hold the attack to spin continuously, though the later hits are quite weak.
Back Tilt - Wingcutter – Tamm cuts the opponents backwards with her wings, very quick and safe, great for combo starters.
Dash Attack - Tripping Tackle – Wyrm trips over with some force, while the attack is quilt strong and can KO, the speed can be lacking.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Sturdy Cedar – Wyrm winds his fist before performing a stiff punch forward, has quite the range due to Tamm straitening his arm.
Up Charge - Butterfly Blade - Tamm spins around Wyrm rapidly, forming a tornado that sucks opponents upwards, quite weak but good for combo starting.
Down Charge - Limp Branch – Wyrm falls over like a ragdoll, damaging anyone around him with a dust cloud.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Articulated Kick – Wyrm clumsily performs that kick a lot of familiar fighters use as a move like this. The move is weak in the beginning and end but much stronger in the middle.
Forward Air - Cobble Clog – A swinging axe kick with the heel of Wyrm's foot spiking the foe downwards, quite a safe move to use.
Up Air - Frantic Swatter – A move for juggling where Tamm performs a cutting motion with her wings, good for vertical combo starting.
Down Air - No Strings Attached - A spindly twin punch from below to fling opponents to the side, good range but slow speed.
Back Air - Mother's Meteor – From behind Tamm performs a surprisingly familiar swinging punch with the capability to spike. Quite strong but lacking in range due to Tamm's... stubby appendages.

Grabs:
Pummel - Scolding Slap - Tamm scolds the assailant with some harsh and rather hurtful words.
Forward Throw - Too Pushy? - Tamm shoves the opponent backwards, it doesn't launch them, but rather trips them for follow up combos.
Down Throw - The Boot - Wyrm's boot like feet bury the opponent into the ground.
Back Throw - I Can Handle This - Wyrm takes back Tamm and performs a retaliatory kick to push opponents back, his weakest throw.
Up Throw - Sonnly Slam - Wyrm performs an uppercut, impressing Tamm, this uppercut is quite a potent kill throw.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Mother Mayfly – Tamm decides to give some words of encouragement to help Wyrm, she can give these words in one of several tones:

• Caring - Wyrm is tinted yellow and gains increased speed due to a new pep in his step, though he becomes lighter due to his new carefree bliss.
• Concern - Wyrm is tinted cyan and becomes more defensive, being heavier in weight but weaker in attack.
• Assertive - Wyrm is tinted red and becomes more assertive, his attacks do increase knockback, but he loses some mobility.

This move can't be used willy nilly, Tamm's helpful advice can only go so far, you need some time between words of encouragement to try again. When you lose your current vibe you have to wait a bit before you can use this move again, though you can speed up the wait by spending some Hyper Meter, though you can't use vibes cosistantly.

Side Special - Acorn Missile – Wyrm shoots explosive acorns from his fingers that travel in a straight line but slow their acceleration in the air before exploding, can really catch people off guard.

• Side Hyper - Pinecone Missile – The pinecone doesn't explode, rather, it continuously drills into the opponent for continuous damage, good for trapping opponents.

Down Special - Brushing Wing - Tamm flips her large wings forward like a cape, this flips over opponents to the other side and can also reflect projectiles. When done in the air, this slows Wyrm's descent.

• Down Hyper - Moth Scales – Tamm scatters small scales to create a large gust of wind that Wyrm flings out like a projectile, the projectile is very weak but deals very high knockback.

Up Special - Rising Swallowtail - Tamm uses her large wings to perform a powerful leap into the sky, the angle of the leap can be directed in one of the 8 cardinal directions. While it doesn't deal damage it sends the duo very far and while Wrym can't use it multiple times in a row, he can use other moves when exiting this move.

• Up Hyper - Moth Bomb - Sacrificing a little bit of total distance, Tamm flies much more powerfully, allowing Wyrm to use this move offensively. There is a powerful sweetspot to this move that can KO at low percents if lined up properly. The move also has a small amount of invincibility in the beginning and ends of the move.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Butterfly Burst – Tamm charges rainbow energy to create a powerful pulse, the direct center of the attack has an incredibly powerful sweetspot that can KO at low percents, but the attack has very high ending lag.
Level 2 - Wyrmwood - Using his ancient roots, Wyrm becomes giant tree that shoots a giant explosive acorn.
Level 3 - Mother's Love – Tamm gives a very loving word of encouragement, giving him both the speed, weight and power boost from all of her pep talks.

Kirbeh using the updates you suggested, I made some major changes to some of Wyrm and Tamm's moveset and backstory. How do you like it?

I was actually already in the process of another revision myself. I went back to the drawing board and tried to combine our ideas. I still need to do the full write up and do some doodles for the moveset but here's the basics.

Tamm is back to residing in his head which is now open from the top like a hollowed-out stump. I forgot to reflect this in the drawing but whether she's hiding inside or peeking out to help, the knot hole in place of Wyrm's left eye will emanate a glow coming from Tamm. The glowing "eye" will change color depending on the current buff being applied. The source of the light is no longer Tamm's wings, but her abdomen as she is now based on a firefly. Wyrm himself has been given a more puppet like head as well with some loose inspiration from robots (which will come into play more in the move set write up for firing the acorn bullets and pinecones, etc.)

The cape is of course now back to being actually made of leaves and will now change color based on the costume. For the base set of costumes green will be the default with red, orange and yellow being the alts; based on the different shades of autumn leaves. Wyrm's body will have colors based on different kinds of wood. Functionally we can leave it as is, just change the explanation to Wyrm using it to ride winds. He can still have multiple jumps too, but the cape will have two large sections split to serve as "wings" which he'll flap using his own arms. Up Special can either have them parachute up on a gust of wind or revert to Tamm pulling Wyrm along as she flies and tries to carry them both through the air.

Full write up will come later as I'm heading to bed. Gotta work early tomorrow.

Spoiler

 

[Glubbfubb]

I was actually already in the process of another revision myself. I went back to the drawing board and tried to combine our ideas. I still need to do the full write up and do some doodles for the moveset but here's the basics.

Tamm is back to residing in his head which is now open from the top like a hollowed-out stump. I forgot to reflect this in the drawing but whether she's hiding inside or peeking out to help, the knot hole in place of Wyrm's left eye will emanate a glow coming from Tamm. The glowing "eye" will change color depending on the current buff being applied. The source of the light is no longer Tamm's wings, but her abdomen as she is now based on a firefly. Wyrm himself has been given a more puppet like head as well with some loose inspiration from robots (which will come into play more in the move set write up for firing the acorn bullets and pinecones, etc.)

The cape is of course now back to being actually made of leaves and will now change color based on the costume. For the base set of costumes green will be the default with red, orange and yellow being the alts; based on the different shades of autumn leaves. Wyrm's body will have colors based on different kinds of wood. Functionally we can leave it as is, just change the explanation to Wyrm using it to ride winds. He can still have multiple jumps too, but the cape will have two large sections split to serve as "wings" which he'll flap using his own arms. Up Special can either have them parachute up on a gust of wind or revert to Tamm pulling Wyrm along as she flies and tries to carry them both through the air.

Full write up will come later as I'm heading to bed. Gotta work early tomorrow.

Spoiler

View attachment 386653

Oddly enough I prefer the old Wyrm design, but I love Tamm's design MUCH better. I feel like the duo would work best if its a purely beneficial relationship and not some dark parasitic relationship, it feels more unique and wholesome. I think a proper fusion of the two concepts would be to mix this designs build and Tamm design while mixing it with the Wyrm's old design, if that is possible.

Also I don't know who to start making first, Levi, Wynnie, or Aremi on Godot. I feel like the first two are easier to make due to simpler movesets.

 

[Kirbeh]

Oddly enough I prefer the old Wyrm design, but I love Tamm's design MUCH better. I feel like the duo would work best if its a purely beneficial relationship and not some dark parasitic relationship, it feels more unique and wholesome. I think a proper fusion of the two concepts would be to mix this designs build and Tamm design while mixing it with the Wyrm's old design, if that is possible.

I mean, this design isn't meant to be parasitic either. Wyrm is just a "head empty" stump boy now, allowing Tamm to stow away in his noggin. I still need to draw a full body sketch of Tamm too. I'll throw that in with the move set doodles so you can get a better idea of how the new design is intended to work. The primary reason I even went with another revision was to better fit the move set you'd already made. My 'Tamm as the cape' concept doesn't work well with a lot of the attacks you want them to have. Plus, this frees up the cape to actually be able to change colors for alt costumes while still incorporating a way of tracking the buffs through the changes in "eye" color.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I mean, this design isn't meant to be parasitic either. Wyrm is just a "head empty" stump boy now, allowing Tamm to stow away in his noggin. I still need to draw a full body sketch of Tamm too. I'll throw that in with the move set doodles so you can get a better idea of how the new design is intended to work. The primary reason I even went with another revision was to better fit the move set you'd already made. My 'Tamm as the cape' concept doesn't work well with a lot of the attacks you want them to have. Plus, this frees up the cape to actually be able to change colors for alt costumes while still incorporating a way of tracking the buffs through the changes in "eye" color.

Okay so like Sans Undertale basically

I jest, the base moveset was built around being normally quite awkward, ie most moves are quite laggy and weird to use basically. That is where the buffs come in, being happy makes Wyrm's attack have better frame data while being assertive makes him have better kill power, while being concerned emphasizes the mazing defensive aspects of Wyrm's kit like his keepaway specials and longer melee attack range at the cost of killpower. That is just how I designed his kit. Imagine it like a parent directing her kid how to do basic functions, which is perfect for a character like them.

 

[Kirbeh]

Okay so like Sans Undertale basically

I'm resigning from the team.

That's not what I was going for and now I can't unsee it. It was supposed to be like the Terminator (or just robots/cyborgs in general) but now it's just Sans.

I jest, the base moveset was built around being normally quite awkward, ie most moves are quite laggy and weird to use basically. That is where the buffs come in, being happy makes Wyrm's attack have better frame data while being assertive makes him have better kill power, while being concerned emphasizes the mazing defensive aspects of Wyrm's kit like his keepaway specials and longer melee attack range at the cost of killpower. That is just how I designed his kit. Imagine it like a parent directing her kid how to do basic functions, which is perfect for a character like them.

I'm specifically talking about the actual move animations for all the normal/charge attacks. Not the buff gimmick.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I'm resigning from the team.

That's not what I was going for and now I can't unsee it. It was supposed to be like the Terminator (or just robots/cyborgs in general) but now it's just Sans.

I'm specifically talking about the actual move animations for all the normal/charge attacks. Not the buff gimmick.

IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS
IT NEVER ENDS

 

[Glubbfubb]

An odd trait for Aremi and her species by proxy is any sudden emotional shift usually results in random spontaneous combustion, usually directed at the head. And sometimes the shift can last a few seconds and the combustion still occurs, like imagine getting suddenly annoyed but then getting over it but you still have the realization that your head still explodes or something, like Aremi would just have face that says "not again with this my god"

Blame this random tangent on insomnia fueled stupor.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Here is a pitch for a reworked function related to dodging and shielding

Dodging is assigned to its own independent button for shielding. When you dodge on the ground, you can either perform a spot dodge or a roll dodge, Continuously dodging will reduce the total invincibility frames by 1/3, so you can really only get invincibility three times in a row. Performing other actions will restore the normal dodge frames, so you should be varied in how you move.

Shielding has its own button as well, which is the Meter button, when you press Meter button while standing still you create a protective barrier, with one segment of Meter creating a new barrier. If you press the Meter button while not moving in the air you can Air Shield which is more durable than a normal shield but the shield will disappear when landing and if someone hit the shield you will be pushed quite a bit in the air.

I made this update since shielding is linked to the Meter, and wavedashing is performed by dodging, so it would be unfair if an improper wave dash results in lost Meter.

These are just small update ideas, and I am going to place the basic controls in the OP.

 

[Glubbfubb]

LAMBDA MOVESET REWORK:

Spoiler: LAMBDA Moveset

Name - LAMBDA
Gender - Genderless
Species - Android
Origin - LAMBDA was one of the 24 cores used by the CGC to automatically operate the Double Sigma, LAMBDA's purpose was to act as a logic core, essentially acting as the voice of reason among the other AIs of the ship. Communication with the LAMBDA unit was sparse due to how self-reliant it was, so it was mostly left to its own devices to operate the day-to-day activities of the Double Sigma. When the ship disappeared, it was quite unknown what exactly happened to LAMBDA that made it the way it is today. What we do know is that after the reappearance of the Double Sigma, LAMBDA made a mechanical body said to be based off the Caedego, a long-extinct mythical creature from the wasteland moon of Dipteros. Due to this fact, there have been theories that the natives of Dipteros, the G'nats, highjacked LAMBDA for the purpose of fueling their own conquest, though that is just speculation, of course.

Appearance - They have a jet black body with large metallic arms and legs. The arms are plated with vents that shoot out a potent crimson fire fueled by Pyronite. They have an overall draconic design with a large metallic maw dominating their head, pierced by three ominous insectoid eyes. This is done in the image of a Caedago, the prehistoric relative of the G'nats and considered a mythical creature among the species. On their feet are what appear to be plated cleats, though instead of spikes LAMBDA's feet have more fire-spewing vents.

Archetype - Grappler/Bruiser
Gimmick - Heavy Metal

• LAMBDA is made out of heavy metal armor. This makes them more resistance to flinching compared to the rest of the cast, meaning they won't get flinched by low-knockback moves.

Intended Strengths -

• Highest raw damage output in the game, LAMBDA thrives at KOs at lower percents compared to the rest of the cast.
• Highest weight in the game means they also have some of the highest survivability of the game, especially with Heavy Metal.
• LAMBDA has notable burst movement options, making them a foe filled with surprises.

Intended Weaknesses -

• The lowest walk speed in the game, meaning they have to rely on their burst options to keep pace.
• This reliance on burst movement makes their movement quite awkward to master for some.
• Lacking in big combo strings, as they rely more on big hits and punishes.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - E
Running Speed - C
Traction - A
Jump Height - B
Air Acceleration - C+
Fall Speed - B+
Weight - A+

Ground Moves:
Jab - Missile Strike- LAMBDA's large fists strike forward in a brutal jet-powered palm strike, the strike itself can be aimed up or down. If you perform the straight-angled variant you can then follow up with a strong crushing punch from above.
Forward Tilt - Exhaust - LAMBDA's fire vents puff out a large blaze, the force of which sends LAMBDA back a few steps.
Up Tilt - Clockwork Uppercut - A fiery uppercut, the slow start up of the attack is made up for by the massive range it brings.

• Up Tilt (Hard Button Input) - Megaton Uppercut - A much slower uppercut, but the attack both deals even more damage and causes LAMBDA to jump a bit in the air.

Down Tilt - Meteor Swing - A clenched fist that spikes opponents downwards with the center of the fist, the rest is a rather weak sourspot. This attack is best used for edgeguarding.
Back Tilt - Swerve - This unique Back Tilt actually turns LAMBDA around as they perform a spinning motion that's to the jets on their backsides, it is much slower than simply turning around however.
Dash Attack - Jet Tackle - A propelled shoulder bash, it is a long dash attack with a sweet spot in the center, it is also a KO option.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Dragon Punch - An armored punch attack, among the slowest attacks in the game but also one of the strongest.
Up Charge - Flurry Hurricane - A spinning, copter like attack performs with LAMBDA's fists, the safest of the three charge attacks.
Down Charge - Shieldbreaker - LAMBDA claps the opponent together with their fists, this attack instantly breaks shields.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Comet Smash - A diagonal punch downwards, among LAMBDA's faster aerials, though among the weakest as well, not that is saying much.
Forward Air - Fire Haymaker - A hook, angled diagonally upward, propelled by fire, a good get-off-me tool and juggling tool.
Up Air - Impact Breaker - LAMBDA lightly propels themselves upwards with fire, wrapping them in the burning substance and boosting them upwards slightly.
Down Air - Breaking Blow - A twin fisted swing downwards that can create a potent spike.
Back Air - Spinner Punch - A back-handed punch that is reasonably fast for someone of LAMBDA's size.

Grabs:
Pummel - Burning Jab - A fire soaked punch clobbers the opponent.
Forward Throw - Atmospheric Haymaker - A spinning swing that launched opponents greatly back.
Down Throw - Brutal Burier - A brutal swing from above that buries opponents instantly.
Back Throw - Somersault Spinner - An agile somersault that crashes opponents towards the ground.
Up Throw - Upper Liftoff - A rocket-powered uppercut, a good kill-throw.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Plasma Vortex- A slow-moving, short-range, ball of plasma get shot by LAMBDA, what really makes it dangerous is its ability to suck up fighters to cofirm into one of LAMBDA's moves.

• Neutral Hyper - Plasma Eye - LAMBDA shoots out a large plasma sphere that splits off into a smaller, weaker shot that collides into the opponent.

Side Special - Crimson Dragon - A command-grab where LAMBDA grabs the opponent before spinning them straight-down, the downward crashing motion can be aimed left or right.

• Side Hyper - Dragon Maw - LAMBDA rises diagonally up, grasps the opponent, then burns them with intense flames before crashing them down.

Down Special - Shine Barrier - LAMBDA creates a protective plasma barrier in front of themselves, the shock of the barrier sends the opponent backwards and the shield can reflect projectiles at increased strength.

• Down Hyper - Shine Buster - LAMBDA kicks a spinning plasma disk like a boomerang forward, tripping opponents who get caught in the attack.

Up Special - Pyro Jet - LAMBDA uses their jets to fly upwards, a slow but controllable recovery move that consumes fuel that can only be replenished by touching the ground, be careful as if the jets run out of fuel LAMBDA enters freefall.

• Up Hyper - Pyro Beast - LAMBDA performs a straight jump upwards, then a diagonal dive downwards, followed by a massive explosion, resulting in a better recovery in terms of distance travelled, though much less safe.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Pyro Flare - LAMBDA spews a fireball that moves slowly across the ground before exploding in a fiery burst, the explosion can occur prematurely if LAMBDA presses the special button again.
Level 2 - Drilling Raptor - LAMBDA spins while upside down, sucking opponents in, and if they get sucked in the force of the spinning buries them.
Level 3 - Pyronite Armor - LAMBDA gains an orange energy field, allowing them to withstand any single attack without taking any damage or knockback.

EPSILON MOVESET REWORK:

Spoiler: EPSILON Moveset

Name - EPSILON
Gender - Genderless
Species - Android
Origin - EPSILON was one of the 24 cores used by the CGC to automatically operate the Double Sigma, EPSILON's purpose was to act as a defense core, allowing the ship to fly safely without the need for outside assistance. It had a pretty good track record, so the reason the Double Sigma disappeared is a mysterious one. One rumor going around is that the people of the outer wilds somehow corrupted the ship for their own nefarious purposes, but without any evidence the mystery will continue to pester the CGC. Little do they know, EPSILON is back on line with a android body, following their protocol to take back the Double Sigma for themselves.

Appearance - They have a pure white body with a small humanoid build. Their body is dotted by bright blue lights, which become orange when they perform certain attacks. They have an overall feline design with a slim white cat-like crest dominating their head, clawed fingers and feet, and pronounced tiger-like fangs pierced by two glowing eyes.

Archetype - Zoner/Rushdown
Gimmick - Light Metal

• EPSILON's sleek but light metal coating gives them a very floaty jump, additionally they are able to halve their fall speed by holding up while in the air.

Intended Strengths -

• Their uniquely floaty physics gives them an impressive air game alongside a good ground game with their long wavedash.
• Great combo ability, one of the best of the game due to their solid options and speedy attacks.
• Amazing projectile and anti-projectile options in Plasma Needles and Shine Barrier respectively.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Very slow and slippery on the ground, meaning despite their great ground combos, they have a hard time approaching.
• While they have good combos, they also have a high skill ceiling, making them quite complex.
• They can be easily intercepted due to their floatiness.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - C-
Running Speed - B-
Traction - C-
Jump Height - A-
Air Acceleration - A-
Fall Speed - C
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Comet Strikes - The longest jab string in the game, with 5 hits, first a left hand open-palm strike, then a hook from the right hand, then a right kick, then and left kick, finally a heel strike to end it.
Forward Tilt - Echo Burst - EPSILON creates a burst of plasma and energy from their palms to quickly jolt forward, a solid keepaway tool.
Up Tilt - Cosmo Kicks - A pair of twin kicks upwards, good for juggling foes and starting combos.
Down Tilt - Low Sweep - A fast kick towards the legs that has a high chance to trip opponents.
Back Tilt - Jolting Strike - A sharp chop back seeped in electricity, a very strong move that stuns opponents, though of course it has heavy lag if it misses.
Dash Attack - Pulsing Booster - Propelled by jets, EPSILON dashes forward with a quick tackle.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Heavy Volt Kick - A kick, made bigger by being wrapped in plasma, a very strong shieldbreak that gives some minor armor.
Up Charge - Dancing Spin - A brealdancing like motion that allows EPSILON to perform a spinning helicopter kick, a good combo starter.
Down Charge - Shieldslicer - EPSILON slashes the opponent with a slow, soaring axe kick, this attack instantly breaks shields.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Star Kick - A flashing kick, you know the one, stronger at the start than the end.
Forward Air - Triple Mach Slicer - A triple kick forward with the heel of EPSILON's clawed feet, a quick combo tool.
Up Air - Cartwheel Cyclone - A spinning kick in the circle coated in blue plasma to increase the range.
Down Air - Drilling Dive - A potent drilling kick downward that deals many hits of damage, spiking at the end.
Back Air - Flashing Wall Kick - A simultaneous double kick with a sheet of plasma coating it, pushing foes back strongly.

Grabs:
Pummel - Shocking Jab - A plasma soaked strike punches the opponent.
Forward Throw - Mega Jolt - A powerful jolt of electricity from EPSILON's palms shocks the opponent backwards.
Down Throw - Flurry Kick Rush - A dozen hyperspeed kicks strikes the opponents with great force, spiking them.
Back Throw - Haymaker Spinner - An agile spin that tosses opponents up in the air.
Up Throw - Upper Launcher - A gravity-manipulated launching motion, a good kill-throw.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Plasma Needles- A needle-like projectile that is unique in that it freezes in the air for a few seconds before shooting forwards as a laser. Due to its very fast fire-rate, you can have both a protective wall of spikes and a volley of hyper-fast projectiles.

• Neutral Hyper - Plasma Shock - A large bolt of plasma that stuns opponents when they get hit by it.

Side Special - Cobalt Tiger - A lariat like move that spins EPSILON along the ground, being coated in plasma this gives EPSILON a bit of invincibility when used.

• Side Hyper - Tiger's Claw - EPSILON shoots a fast curved crest of plasma that is quite tall and cuts along the ground like butter.

Down Special - Shine Barrier - EPSILON creates a protective plasma barrier around their bodies, the shock of the barrier sends the opponent upwards and the shield can reflect projectiles back at the opponent.

• Down Hyper - Shine Buster - EPSILON kicks a spinning plasma disk around themselves in a 360 degree motion, starting from their left sides and ending at the right, a great keepaway tool as it trips opponents who collide with the attack.

Up Special - Gravity Rocket - Manipulating gravity, EPSILON performs either short but consecutive dashes at various angles, or a single power flying dropkick, they can then act out of this move upon use.

• Up Hyper - Gravity Bubble - EPSILON rides a bubble made out of curved gravity to rise upwards, this is quite safe as it deflects projectiles and gives them some armor. After the bubble bursts they can perform other actions afterwards.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Gravity Burst - EPSILON sucks in fighters before launching them outwards with a powerful palm strike command grab.
Level 2 - Slashing Tiger - A large energy blade gets slashed downward, this instantly breaks shields and deals foes a deadly critical hit.
Level 3 - Shine Armor - EPSILON gains an cyan energy field, allowing them to withstand any single attack without taking any damage or knockback.

Okay Kirbeh I sort of went ham on these two reworks for LAMBDA and EPSILON, though it also sort of completely reworks their gameplay roles. However, I am very satisfied with the end result, I really want some in-depth feedback with this pair of movesets.

I did try to mirror them a bit due to their similar naming conventions with their specials, as well as contrasting elements with their neutral and down specials.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Myten Queen Rework:

Spoiler: Myten Queen Moveset

Name - Mytan Queen
Gender - Male Drones + Female Queen
Species - Myten
Origin - The Myten are a species of parasitic lifeforms that have made a name for themselves by being extremely invasive on several major planets. Originating from Mythis, which had Dipteros, home of the G'nats, orbiting it, the species as a whole spent their time hunting down the G'nats and devour them for easy prey. It wasn't until the G'nats developed weaponry to stop the Mytans did their population crash and become near extinct. However, when the Double Sigma returned a colony of Mytens stowed onto the ship and began to form a new swarm. Mytens form a powerful hive mind around a single insectoid core, known as a Myten Queen, who infects organic matter to create more members of its colony. Mytens have been the target of several high profile extermination attempts due to how invasive they are, with massive bounties placed on their heads in order to slay entire colonies. However, some hives are more crafty than others and wait in the shadows for the opportunity to strike. Weevle in particular hate the Mytens for the past the two species shared, and she is part of LAMBDA's crew due to being one of the few safe havens she has against these parasites.

Appearance - The Myten consists of a queen and several Myten drones covering the queen's body. The queen is a pearl-white crustacean, resembling a combination of a lice, sea urchin, isopod, and cricket. The queen has five legs that have flattened shells which allows it to curl up its body into a ball. On her backside is a forked tail from which two white tentacles some out, which is that the Queen uses for grabbing opponents. The Myten Queen also has a single blood red eye, which it uses to both see and direct control of their drones. The drones resemble sea urchins with tick-like legs, with a small pair of fangs, and six red eyes. The drones are covered in sharp needles that contain a small pore from which the drones can launch acid, webbing, or eggs to create more Myten. The drones cover the queen to offer protection, turning themselves into various sharp appendages like spines, drills, and spears. During certain moves the Myten Queen summons different castes of Myten, including the explosive, balloon-like Myten Floater, the small, floor-crawling, Myten Sneaker, the thin, aerodynamic Myten Locust, the large, spiraling, Myten Driller, the smoky, toxic, Myten Fogger, and the deadly, worm-like Myten Grub.

Archetype - Zoner
Gimmick - Spiky Shield

• The Myten Queen covers herself in webbing when she casts her shield and then has her Myten drones cover the shield with their barbed spines. This shield doesn't shrink like other shield, and when physical contact is dealt to the shield, the opponent gets a small amount of damage and hitstun due to the spine. However, this comes at a cost of durability, as the shield drains the Hyper Meter faster compared to other shields.

Intended Strengths -

• The most potent zoner of the cast with powerful disjointed projectiles or varying uses adding variety and experimentation.
• Being among the shortest members of the cast, the Myten Queen can low profile certain attacks.
• A long disjointed grab gives it good mix-up opportunities.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Lowest jumps among the cast, so despite a decent air acceleration it doesn't have good air mobility.
• Despite powerful disjoints and good combos, the Myten Queen lacks KO power up close unless using their grabs.
• Has a very poor disadvantage state due to a very exploitable recovery.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B
Running Speed - B+
Traction - B+
Jump Height - C
Air Acceleration - B+
Fall Speed - B+
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Barb Barrage - A rapid volley of spikes jut out of the Myten Queen's carapace, among the fastest jabs in the game due to this fact.
Forward Tilt - Tentclaw - A powerful slashing attack done by one of the Myten Queen's blade-like tentacles, it moves like a sharpened whip, having impressing range and power but is quite laggy.
Up Tilt - Spine Volley - The Myten Queen shoots a single spike upward in a very vertical arch, though the downwards trajectory is somewhat random. Good for edge-guarding at the edge.
Down Tilt - Fraying Tentacles - The tentacles of the Myten Queen fray into several smaller tentacles, which spin across the Queen's body like sawblades, can be held down to deal a continuous hit, though subsequent hits are much weaker.
Back Tilt - Isopod Spear - The Queen spears the opponent back with their tail tentacles, impaling them, a good kill move, and one of the Myten Queen's few direct kill moves.
Dash Attack - Spiny Slider - The queen rolls up into a spiky ball and dashes forward, having good range, even by dash attack standards plus a bit of armor to go along with such an attack, however the dash attack is one of the weakest in terms of raw power.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Drilling Motion - The Myten Queen summons a Myten Driller to perform a powerful spinning motion forward, good for shredding shields and catching opponents off guard due to its surprise speed.
Up Charge - Double Drill - Two Myten Drillers come above the queen and intercept any opponents in the air, with a powerful sweetspot in the middle of the attack.
Down Charge - Spinning Shell- The Myten Queen rides a Myten Driller and spins like a top, this attack actually lowers the Queen's traction, letting it be used as a good DACCA (Dash Attack Cancel Charge Attack)

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Spinning Top - A spinning motion is perform, making the Myten Queen appear like a top, this slows their descent making it a good stalling tool in the air.
Forward Air - Acidic Spinner - A corkscrew attack forward, with the Queen's body being turned vertically while being propelled by jets of green acid. This boosts the Myten Queen forward slightly, making it a decent recovery boost.
Up Air - Tentawhip - The Myten Queen flicks upwards with their two tentacles, and while laggy, it is a good juggling tool that kills at high percents.
Down Air - Dropping Spinner - The Myten Queen speeds their descent by spinning upside down; while not a stall and fall, it is a good option to get back onto stage.
Back Air - Pin Mortar - The Myten Queen launches three small and weak spike projectiles behind themselves, like the Spine Volley the trajectories these spines end up in are slightly random.

Grabs:
Pummel - Vice Grip - A chocking motion made with the Myten Queen's tentacles.
Forward Throw - Tentaslamma - The Myten Queen crashes the opponent down onto the ground with their tentacles, burying them in the process.
Down Throw - Drilling Spine - The Myten Queen places the opponent underneath a Myten Driller, which spins rapidly, launching foes away.
Back Throw - Bank-Shot - The Myten Queen tosses the foe backwards in a pretty clean arching motion, quite a strong kill throw.
Up Throw - Vice Upper - A simple toss upwards, nothing really special, just a good combo throw.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Floater Mine - The Queen spawns a Myten Floater, this creature naturally moves slowly in the direction the queen is facing, and pressing the Special button makes the Floater raise in the air. Eventually the Floater explodes, creating a powerful burst of acid to chip away at fighters.

• Neutral Hyper - Acid Cutter - The Myten Queen launches a blade of acid that cuts along the ground like butter that explodes when colliding with a fighter, a good mix-up projectile.

Side Special - Mist Bomber - Charging up a Myten Smoker, the Queen launches a cloud of corrosive black gas forward as a stage control hazard. Attacking the cloud can move it slightly based on the direction of the attack

• Side Hyper - Corrosive Spinner - Utilizing the corrosive smoke of the Myten Smokers, the Queen spins along the ground, catching anything in their way. The smoke poisons the opponent chipping their percent for a small amount of time.

Down Special - Sneaking Trap - Summoning a Myten Sneaker, the Myten Queen has the Sneaker crawl along the ground. Holding the button moves the Sneaker forward, while letting the button go causes the Sneaker to explode into a paralyzing cloud of yellow acid.

• Down Hyper - Acid Geyser - An attack with heavy armor on the first hit, it is a pseudo-counter as it sends a powerful geyser of acid upwards.

Up Special - Diver Bomb - Carried by a pair of Myten Locusts, the Queen flies into the sky. You can end the flight just before the end of the animation in order to perform a dive bomb attack with a unique arching angle. If the flight mode is performed for too long, the Queen gets sent into freefall.

• Up Hyper - Acid Sprayer - While a much weaker recovery move than Diver Bomb due to propelling the Queen for a much shorter distance, the acid shot by the Queen is sent out like a hose, letting the Queen edgeguard their opponents much better.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Silk Bomb - The Myten Queen shoots a ball of silk forward as a very slow projectile, if the opponent gets hit by the attack then the ball will explode, trapping the foe in sticky white fluid that slows them down.
Level 2 - Fluid Burst - A large explosion of acid goes around the Myten Queen, blasting anyone away caught in the radius.
Level 3 - Brain Worm - The Myten Queen impales the opponent forward with one of their tentacles, injecting them with the egg for a Myten Grub. The grub disables the usage of the Hyper Meter, meaning they can't use Hyper Attacks or cast a barrier.

Another massive rework done, this time for the Myten Queen. Kirbeh I decided to change the backstories a bit, making the Queen more linked to Weevle's species, making it more relevant to the plot, this does come with the result of LAMBDA being both draconic and insectoid due to being modeled after a prehistoric G'nat called a Caedago now, but I think it can work. The rework took some inspiration from Duck Hunt, Ivysaur, and Twelve from Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, with a few elements of Cloud, Pirhana Plant, and Mario for good measure too, tell me how you like it.

 

[Kirbeh]

Comments are within the quoted post. Any section that's been deleted means I've nothing to add.

Also, please proofread your posts. There are lots of errors and odd wording in some places. I feel like a lot of the confusion and criticisms I have of some of your ideas come from miscommunication in how you word your posts.

It's like a weird game of telephone. What you type up isn't as accurate to what you're imagining as it could be. This then leads to my interpretation of your words to be even further off than what you might be intending.

LAMBDA MOVESET REWORK:

Spoiler: LAMBDA Moveset

Appearance - They have a jet black body with large metallic arms and legs. The arms are plated with vents that shoot out a potent crimson fire fueled by Pyronite. They have an overall draconic design with a large metallic maw dominating their head, pierced by three ominous insectoid eyes. On their feet are what appear to be plated cleats, though instead of spikes LAMBDA's feet have more fire-spewing vents.

So, you're overhauling his appearance then? I'm not a fan of giving them compound eyes, especially when it's still 3 of them. They'd take up too much of the face and take away from the draconic look. There's no mention of a tail either, is it being removed? Also don't like the cleats, I don't see what they add to the design. They just feel kind of random.


Ground Moves:
Jab - Missile Strike- LAMBDA's large fists strike forward in a brutal jet-powered palm strike, the strike itself can be aimed up or down. If you perform the straight-angled variant you can then follow up with a strong crushing punch from above.

Wouldn't this make more sense as the F-Tilt if you want to give it the option of being angled?


Forward Tilt - Exhaust - LAMBDA's fire vents puff out a large blaze, the force of which sends LAMBDA back a few steps.

Similarly, I think the idea here is neat, but better fit elsewhere in the move set. Making this into a kill throw that LAMBDA hits them with at point blank makes more sense imo. Either that or as a Charge if it has enough force to push LAMBDA back. Or maybe even as a dash attack. LAMBDA hits the brakes, and the exhaust launches opponents forward while propelling back him to make the move safer and give it some mix up options if opponents try to roll behind him.


Up Tilt - Clockwork Uppercut - A fiery uppercut, the slow start up of the attack is made up for by the massive range it brings.

• Up Tilt (Hard Button Input) - Megaton Uppercut - A much slower uppercut, but the attack both deals even more damage and causes LAMBDA to jump a bit in the air.

To continue off the heat vents you're introducing, I also think you should make more use of them in a few attacks over giving LAMBDA regular punches. For example, we could put some vents on his shoulders as well and the Up Tilt could have LAMBDA face the camera and expel heat from both vents. This would hit on both sides at an upward-diagonal angle making it a great anti-air for use against cross-ups and jump ins.


Down Tilt - Meteor Swing - A clenched fist that spikes opponents downwards with the center of the fist, the rest is a rather weak sourspot. This attack is best used for edgeguarding.

A D-Tilt that spikes seems rather odd, but also interesting. I do think it'd be better fit as a Down Charge though.


Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Dragon Punch - An armored punch attack, among the slowest attacks in the game but also one of the strongest.

See, this is where I'd bring in the jets instead of on the normal jab. You could have LAMBDA reel back with the jet charging kinda like with Dedede's Jet Hammer then you could aim the swing forward or diagonally up/down with an explosive impact when LAMBDA's fist connects.



Up Charge - Flurry Hurricane - A spinning, copter like attack performs with LAMBDA's fists, the safest of the three charge attacks.

Spinning Up Charges seem like something else you seem to go for a lot. Not an inherent problem, just an observation. Do try to keep it in mind though, so you don't wind up with too many characters sharing an Up Charge.



Down Charge - Shieldbreaker - LAMBDA claps the opponent together with their fists, this attack instantly breaks shields.

On full charge, not uncharged right? Otherwise, that seems kinda busted. Could use a different name as well imo. It's descriptive at least, but also the same as Marth's NS.



Aerials:
Up Air - Impact Breaker - LAMBDA lightly propels themselves upwards with fire, wrapping them in the burning substance and boosting them upwards slightly.

Not a fan of an Up Air that can gain height. I'd propose something similar to Charizard's Up Air, but instead of just being a headbutt, LAMBDA charges some plasma in their third eye for a short-range blast as they swing their head.


Down Air - Breaking Blow - A twin fisted swing downwards that can create a potent spike.

Twin fisted like a hammer blow or something like Potemkin's Mega Fist?



Grabs:
Pummel - Burning Jab - A fire soaked punch clobbers the opponent.

Given his size and proportions, I would like to propose his grab to actually have him clutching the opponent in his fist. The pummel would then be squeezing/crushing the caught opponent.


Back Throw - Somersault Spinner - An agile somersault that crashes opponents towards the ground.

Random agile somersault on the super heavy?


Specials:
Neutral Special - Plasma Vortex- A slow-moving, short-range, ball of plasma get shot by LAMBDA, what really makes it dangerous is its ability to suck up fighters to cofirm into one of LAMBDA's moves.

• Neutral Hyper - Plasma Eye - LAMBDA shoots out a large plasma sphere that splits off into a smaller, weaker shot that collides into the opponent.

I'd like to propose that the name Plasma Eye gets transferred to the regular special and has the move animation have LAMBDA actually fire the plasma from his third eye. I would increase its speed and range a little bit too.

The hyper would get the Plasma Vortex name and have the same speed, but a larger size and range while getting the property of pulling opponents in.



Side Special - Crimson Dragon - A command-grab where LAMBDA grabs the opponent before spinning them straight-down, the downward crashing motion can be aimed left or right.

Are we talking like a traditional SPD (Zangief) or something like Vector Drain (Morrigan, Darkstalkers)? Vector Drain would be a much better point of reference for LAMBDA imo, given the jets and whatnot.

• Side Hyper - Dragon Maw - LAMBDA rises diagonally up, grasps the opponent, then burns them with intense flames before crashing them down.

I think the impact of this could be better if the explosion of flames happens upon hitting the ground instead of burning them in the air.


Down Special - Shine Barrier - LAMBDA creates a protective plasma barrier in front of themselves, the shock of the barrier sends the opponent backwards and the shield can reflect projectiles at increased strength.

Is the barrier in front of LAMBDA literally, as in the direction he's facing, or Fox style where it faces the camera? Also, why does it send opponents backward? If they ran at him from behind, does it send them front of him? The utility of that just feels kind of awkward compared to launching forward, up or down.

• Down Hyper - Shine Buster - LAMBDA kicks a spinning plasma disk like a boomerang forward, tripping opponents who get caught in the attack.

Boomerang mentioned. Do you actually mean like a boomerang though? Or like Falco's Reflector? Either way I would propose a slow forward moving barrier ala Aegis Reflector (Urien, Street Fighter) or Gaiganter Kai (Potemkin, Guilty Gear.) This would retain the reflector property while also being an active hitbox that can help cover LAMBDA's approach.

• Up Hyper - Pyro Beast - LAMBDA performs a straight jump upwards, then a diagonal dive downwards, followed by a massive explosion, resulting in a better recovery in terms of distance travelled, though much less safe.

Just wanna propose Pyro Crash as suggestion for the name of the hyper version.



Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Pyro Flare - LAMBDA spews a fireball that moves slowly across the ground before exploding in a fiery burst, the explosion can occur prematurely if LAMBDA presses the special button again.

I do think it should have a different input for detonation so that LAMBDA retains access to neutral special while the flare is active. Either that or just make it into a homing style projectile that slowly chases the opponent and goes off on contact or automatically after a short period of time.



Level 2 - Drilling Raptor - LAMBDA spins while upside down, sucking opponents in, and if they get sucked in the force of the spinning buries them.

What is this move even? It feels so out of left field compared to the rest.



Level 3 - Pyronite Armor - LAMBDA gains an orange energy field, allowing them to withstand any single attack without taking any damage or knockback.

I like this idea, but how does it interact with multi-hit attacks? If it only blocks the first hit, I don't think it's useful enough to justify being the level 3. I think a potential alternative would be to just make it really strong super armor or a short time span. He'll still take damage but will not flinch at all allowing him to use it to go on the offensive a bit more recklessly in dire situations or even use it as a counter to other supers where he just tanks right through it.

As an example, someone else could be throwing out a beam super but you pop the armor just as they do. Then you can just dash right through the beam and interrupt their super and start a punish combo.

EPSILON MOVESET REWORK:

Spoiler: EPSILON Moveset

Name - EPSILON
Gender - Genderless
Species - Android
Origin - EPSILON was one of the 24 cores used by the CGC to automatically operate the Double Sigma, EPSILON's purpose was to act as a defense core, allowing the ship to fly safely without the need for outside assistance. It had a pretty good track record, so the reason the Double Sigma disappeared is a mysterious one. One rumor going around is that the people of the outer wilds somehow corrupted the ship for their own nefarious purposes, but without any evidence the mystery will continue to pester the CGC. Little do they know, EPSILON is back on line with a android body, following their protocol to take back the Double Sigma for themselves.

Appearance - They have a pure white body with a small humanoid build. Their body is dotted by bright blue lights, which become orange when they perform certain attacks. They have an overall feline design with a slim white cat-like crest dominating their head, clawed fingers and feet, and pronounced tiger-like fangs pierced by two glowing eyes.

Just for clarification, you mean android/humanoid this time, right? The very first time you posted about EPSILON you mentioned android (humanoid by definition) but then said they were supposed to be quadruped like an actual tiger. Also, define cat-like crest. Cats don't have crests. Are you referring to a fur pattern like a tiger or tabby?

"Tiger-like fangs pierced by two glowing eyes," again, please proofread.



Charge Attacks:

Down Charge - Shieldslicer - EPSILON slashes the opponent with a slow, soaring axe kick, this attack instantly breaks shields.

See the comment on LAMBDA's Down Charge.



Aerials:
Neutral Air - Star Kick - A flashing kick, you know the one, stronger at the start than the end.

Just call it what it is. Smash fans gave it a weird name but it's just a flying kick. Makes it a lot simpler than trying to give it a different description every time.



Forward Air - Triple Mach Slicer - A triple kick forward with the heel of EPSILON's clawed feet, a quick combo tool.

If it's a strike with the heel do the claws even need to be mentioned? They're not being used in this instance.



Down Air - Drilling Dive - A potent drilling kick downward that deals many hits of damage, spiking at the end.

A multi-hit that also spikes sounds fair and balanced. Joking aside, I think that could be a bit too strong.



Back Air - Flashing Wall Kick - A simultaneous double kick with a sheet of plasma coating it, pushing foes back strongly.

So, a drop kick or?


Grabs:
Pummel - Shocking Jab - A plasma soaked strike punches the opponent.

I'd suggest just having EPSILON shock the opponent by channeling electricity into them.


Specials:
Neutral Special - Plasma Needles- A needle-like projectile that is unique in that it freezes in the air for a few seconds before shooting forwards as a laser. Due to its very fast fire-rate, you can have both a protective wall of spikes and a volley of hyper-fast projectiles.

Is this meant to be a combination of Fox Laser and Sheik's Needles? I like the idea, but for the "creating a wall" part, I think that'd actually work better as a Hyper or even a Super. Have an array of lasers at varying heights all launch at once similar to Dio's Knives (JJBA: Heritage for the Future) or Valentine's Checkmate Incision (Skullgirls.)


Side Special - Cobalt Tiger - A lariat like move that spins EPSILON along the ground, being coated in plasma this gives EPSILON a bit of invincibility when used.

Is this more like Incineraor's Darkest Lariat or like Mario Tornado/Lugi Cyclone?

• Side Hyper - Tiger's Claw - EPSILON shoots a fast curved crest of plasma that is quite tall and cuts along the ground like butter.
  
  ???

Just say it travels quickly, unless you're trying to say it actually cuts through the stage?


Up Special - Gravity Rocket - Manipulating gravity, EPSILON performs either short but consecutive dashes at various angles, or a single power flying dropkick, they can then act out of this move upon use.

Pick one or the other, these are drastically different moves. You're essentially giving them two different Up Specials.

Hypermax Attacks -

Level 3 - Shine Armor - EPSILON gains an cyan energy field, allowing them to withstand any single attack without taking any damage or knockback.

Same as LAMBDA? If so, refer to my previous comment on their version.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Comments are within the quoted post. Any section that's been deleted means I've nothing to add.

Also, please proofread your posts. There are lots of errors and odd wording in some places. I feel like a lot of the confusion and criticisms I have of some of your ideas come from miscommunication in how you word your posts.

It's like a weird game of telephone. What you type up isn't as accurate to what you're imagining as it could be. This then leads to my interpretation of your words to be even further off than what you might be intending.

Okay, some responses to some of these criticisms:

LAMBDA has the Ganondorf Jab in them, so since its only one strike, giving them the unqiue option to angle it would balance the jab better.

Maybe the Clockwork Punch Up Tilt can just use LAMBDA's fists, while Megaton Punch is jet powered.

Up Air was tough to design, since I feel punching upwards with fists like those doesn't have the same impact, so to speak. Maybe make it a bit like Krool's Up Air.

In case your wondering, Nair, Fair, and Bair were modeled off Little Mac's respective attacks and just cracked to the extreme to be viable.

Dragon Punch is modeled after Falcon Punch, I felt an attack like that would work as a Side Charge.

Imagine Side Hyper as a combination of Falcon and Dark Dive.

Shine Buster is like Falco's Reflector, but the other ideas sound cool

I did the whole Nair Kick/S** Kick running gag since one of the users of this move, and the first mention of suck a move, Aremi, is technically a kid, so it felt.. weird calling it that

EPSILON's side special is more like Darkest Lariat

Plasma Claw cuts through the stage

What do you think would be a better Up Special for EPSILON? I don't want a Smash 4 Bayonetta situation and make it super broken.

I wanted some attacks to mirror each other on LAMBDA's and EPSILON's moveset since they have similar origins.

Also, the proofreading issue could be caused by both the sheer length of the post and the made-up names messing up my spell checking app, I will try to be more mindful of that.

That is all my feedback on your comments.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Also Kirbeh I'm sorry about the confusions, I don't like referencing other moves when describing my own moves in my character profiles, I want then to sound unique you know, but a reference for visualization sake might help us, which I'll try to do in the future, such as with Ahab as he is mainly based on Little Mac and Smash 4 DK, specifically the custom move version with the windbending abilities, that was quite infamous and I wanted to reference that infamy.

 

[Kirbeh]

Comments in quote.

Okay, some responses to some of these criticisms:

LAMBDA has the Ganondorf Jab in them, so since its only one strike, giving them the unqiue option to angle it would balance the jab better.

But if it's aimable then it requires you to tilt the stick, so making it a neutral attack is unintuitive and awkward.

Up Air was tough to design, since I feel punching upwards with fists like those doesn't have the same impact, so to speak. Maybe make it a bit like Krool's Up Air.

I used Charizard as the reference since my LAMBDA design (assuming we're still using it) has a longer neck. An animation like K. Rool's would fit better if you were trying to make a goofier character. Unfitting for the current direction of LAMBDA as the big bad/boss character.

Imagine Side Hyper as a combination of Falcon and Dark Dive.

But they're already the same?

I did the whole Nair Kick/S** Kick running gag since one of the users of this move, and the first mention of suck a move, Aremi, is technically a kid, so it felt.. weird calling it that

Just call it a jump kick or flying kick to keep it simple. Or NAIR kick if you want to tie it to Smash.

EPSILON's side special is more like Darkest Lariat

Not what was I expecting for the character (or any double lariat style move tbh,) but alright.

Plasma Claw cuts through the stage

To what end? Or is a strictly visual thing, like Cloud's grounded Blade Beam?

What do you think would be a better Up Special for EPSILON? I don't want a Smash 4 Bayonetta situation and make it super broken.

Why mention Bayo here? My point was to just go for the big rocket jump or the multi-dash instead of trying to squeeze two Up Specials into one.

Also, the proofreading issue could be caused by both the sheer length of the post and the made-up names messing up my spell checking app, I will try to be more mindful of that.

That is all my feedback on your comments.

Copy/pasting key points you didn't address.

So, you're overhauling LAMBDA's appearance then? I'm not a fan of giving them compound eyes, especially when it's still 3 of them. They'd take up too much of the face and take away from the draconic look. There's no mention of a tail either, is it being removed? Also don't like the cleats, I don't see what they add to the design. They just feel kind of random.

On EPSILON, just for clarification, you mean android/humanoid this time, right? The very first time you posted about EPSILON you mentioned android (humanoid by definition) but then said they were supposed to be quadruped like an actual tiger. Also, define cat-like crest. Cats don't have crests. Are you referring to a fur pattern like a tiger or tabby?

On the armor supers:

I like this idea, but how does it interact with multi-hit attacks? If it only blocks the first hit, I don't think it's useful enough to justify being the level 3. I think a potential alternative would be to just make it really strong super armor over a short time span. He'll still take damage but will not flinch at all allowing him to use it to go on the offensive a bit more recklessly in dire situations or even use it as a counter to other supers where he just tanks right through it.

As an example, someone else could be throwing out a beam super but you pop the armor just as they do. Then you can just dash right through the beam and interrupt their super and start a punish combo.

Also Kirbeh I'm sorry about the confusions, I don't like referencing other moves when describing my own moves in my character profiles, I want then to sound unique you know, but a reference for visualization sake might help us, which I'll try to do in the future, such as with Ahab as he is mainly based on Little Mac and Smash 4 DK, specifically the custom move version with the windbending abilities, that was quite infamous and I wanted to reference that infamy.

I understand wanting to make something unique, but continually avoiding mentions or comparisons when you even admit to being inspired by other things is incredibly flawed.

There's nothing wrong with iteration or taking inspiration from something else as I've expressed to you many times before.

And as you just mentioned, when it comes to getting your ideas across, communication is key. If there's an existing example that can illustrate what you're going for then say so. A visual reference I can look up is going to tell me a lot more than a description that tries to tiptoe around sounding similar.

You're sacrificing accuracy and clear communication for the sake of trying to sound unique. And for who exactly? Just yourself?

When you bring more people on board you need to be as clear as possible. The team is going to want/need something they can actually work with, and comparisons to existing examples are helpful points of reference. No one is going to care how "unique" it is or not unless it's a blatant copy/paste job which is already something you're trying not to do.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Comments in quote.

Copy/pasting key points you didn't address.

So, you're overhauling LAMBDA's appearance then? I'm not a fan of giving them compound eyes, especially when it's still 3 of them. They'd take up too much of the face and take away from the draconic look. There's no mention of a tail either, is it being removed? Also don't like the cleats, I don't see what they add to the design. They just feel kind of random.

On EPSILON, just for clarification, you mean android/humanoid this time, right? The very first time you posted about EPSILON you mentioned android (humanoid by definition) but then said they were supposed to be quadruped like an actual tiger. Also, define cat-like crest. Cats don't have crests. Are you referring to a fur pattern like a tiger or tabby?

On the armor supers:

I like this idea, but how does it interact with multi-hit attacks? If it only blocks the first hit, I don't think it's useful enough to justify being the level 3. I think a potential alternative would be to just make it really strong super armor over a short time span. He'll still take damage but will not flinch at all allowing him to use it to go on the offensive a bit more recklessly in dire situations or even use it as a counter to other supers where he just tanks right through it.

As an example, someone else could be throwing out a beam super but you pop the armor just as they do. Then you can just dash right through the beam and interrupt their super and start a punish combo.


I understand wanting to make something unique, but continually avoiding mentions or comparisons when you even admit to being inspired by other things is incredibly flawed.

There's nothing wrong with iteration or taking inspiration from something else as I've expressed to you many times before.

And as you just mentioned, when it comes to getting your ideas across, communication is key. If there's an existing example that can illustrate what you're going for then say so. A visual reference I can look up is going to tell me a lot more than a description that tries to tiptoe around sounding similar.

You're sacrificing accuracy and clear communication for the sake of trying to sound unique. And for who exactly? Just yourself?

When you bring more people on board you need to be as clear as possible. The team is going to want/need something they can actually work with, and comparisons to existing examples are helpful points of reference. No one is going to care how "unique" it is or not unless it's a blatant copy/paste job which is already something you're trying not to do.

We can cut the cleats, but we can still have a insectoid draconic influence for LAMBDA though. And EPSILON is a humanoid android like LAMBDA, just one based off cats rather than dragons. Also super armor for level 3 hypermaxes would work best in this case, as you said to counter multi-hits.

Also any critiques on Myten Queen's rework? I feel that moveset is a bit stronger than the others.

 

[Kirbeh]

We can cut the cleats, but we can still have a insectoid draconic influence for LAMBDA though. And EPSILON is a humanoid android like LAMBDA, just one based off cats rather than dragons. Also super armor for level 3 hypermaxes would work best in this case, as you said to counter multi-hits.

Also any critiques on Myten Queen's rework? I feel that moveset is a bit stronger than the others.

Your post mentions insectoid eyes though. If you're specifically changing those in compound eyes, I need to completely redesign the head to accommodate those. Also, if you want to add more insect like features then I would suggest applying them to the body as well. Turn the dragon into a dragonfly or something like that.

Okay, so humanoid EPSILON is the new actual direction, but some examples for the body type would be helpful.

I haven't read your MQ update yet, I'll do that later.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Your post mentions insectoid eyes though. If you're specifically changing those in compound eyes, I need to completely redesign the head to accommodate those. Also, if you want to add more insect like features then I would suggest applying them to the body as well. Turn the dragon into a dragonfly or something like that.

Okay, so humanoid EPSILON is the new actual direction, but some examples for the body type would be helpful.

I haven't read your MQ update yet, I'll do that later.

I think LAMBDA could take some design influences from Megaguirus from Godzilla, that kaiju was basically a insectoid dragon so maybe mix that with what we have for LAMBDA already.

As for EPSILON, they are designed like the opposite of LAMBDA in terms of body shape, while LAMBDA is big and hulking EPSILON is rather small, though not as small as the actual child characters in the roster. While LAMBDA's body revolves applying great force, EPSILON has a body best used for speed and agility. There is not one body type I have in mind, just something to mirror and contrast LAMBDA.

 

[Kirbeh]

I think LAMBDA could take some design influences from Megaguirus from Godzilla, that kaiju was basically a insectoid dragon so maybe mix that with what we have for LAMBDA already.

As for EPSILON, they are designed like the opposite of LAMBDA in terms of body shape, while LAMBDA is big and hulking EPSILON is rather small, though not as small as the actual child characters in the roster. While LAMBDA's body revolves applying great force, EPSILON has a body best used for speed and agility. There is not one body type I have in mind, just something to mirror and contrast LAMBDA.

LAMBDA redesign attempt

Kept the base idea of what I'd made last time but made LAMBDA a little taller with slightly longer arms as well. Spike on the tail was changed to a hooked stringer like protrusion and made larger as well. Gave them a new head combining a humanoid shape with some reptilian and some insect like features.

Also considering replacing the big jets on his back with more standard wings but with smaller jets built into them instead for a sleeker/more mnageable look.

For EPSILON, given that humanoid is what we're actually going for now, would building off my original illustration work or should the direction be completely different?

 

[Glubbfubb]

LAMBDA redesign attempt

View attachment 386708

Kept the base idea of what I'd made last time but made LAMBDA a little taller with slightly longer arms as well. Spike on the tail was changed to a hooked stringer like protrusion and made larger as well. Gave them a new head combining a humanoid shape with some reptilian and some insect like features.

Also considering replacing the big jets on his back with more standard wings but with smaller jets built into them instead for a sleeker/more mnageable look.

For EPSILON, given that humanoid is what we're actually going for now, would building off my original illustration work or should the direction be completely different?

I really love this design for LAMBDA. As for EPSILON, I want to clear things up saying when I mean humanoid I don't mean human-looking with a human-like face and stuff, I see humanoid as something with a a human-like build, basically a standard bipedal build. I should of describe EPSILON as like that huh? Anyway, they should mirror LAMBDA in terms of basic design elements, but for a tiger instead of bug/dragon hybrid. Maybe since LAMBDA is fusing elements from two animals, maybe EPSILON can have a design element with both tigers and maybe a falcon, since they are both agile sleek creatures. Also, LAMBDA and EPSILON are technically genderless since their androids, just want to remind you of that.

Also when you look at Myten Queen, try and look at the kits and animations of Duck Hunt, Ivysaur, Pirhana Plant, and Twelve from Street Fighter III: Third Strike, as that is what I had in mind when design them.

 

[Kirbeh]

I really love this design for LAMBDA. As for EPSILON, I want to clear things up saying when I mean humanoid I don't mean human-looking with a human-like face and stuff, I see humanoid as something with a a human-like build, basically a standard bipedal build. I should of describe EPSILON as like that huh? Anyway, they should mirror LAMBDA in terms of basic design elements, but for a tiger instead of bug/dragon hybrid. Maybe since LAMBDA is fusing elements from two animals, maybe EPSILON can have a design element with both tigers and maybe a falcon, since they are both agile sleek creatures. Also, LAMBDA and EPSILON are technically genderless since their androids, just want to remind you of that.

Also when you look at Myten Queen, try and look at the kits and animations of Duck Hunt, Ivysaur, Pirhana Plant, and Twelve from Street Fighter III: Third Strike, as that is what I had in mind when design them.

Unless you plan on drastically changing up the entire move set and design philosophy again, I would advise against randomly tossing in a falcon just to give Epsilon two animal inspirations.

I was understand that they're intended to be genderless but I'd also advise that you just start referring to them as robots. Androids specifically are more humanoid/human like, and can be created to reflect a particular gender.

I also get that you're purposely avoiding normal human proportions but with the small characters and big bodies already decided on, the only spot left is to go for a middle ground. That middle ground just so happens to place them in the "taller than Aremi but not freakishly huge like LAMBDA" category. Which does average out to a human equivalent height...

That aside, if my first design is getting scrapped, what are some points of reference for EPSILON? Incineroar maybe?

 

[Glubbfubb]

Unless you plan on drastically changing up the entire move set and design philosophy again, I would advise against randomly tossing in a falcon just to give Epsilon two animal inspirations.

I was understand that they're intended to be genderless but I'd also advise that you just start referring to them as robots. Androids specifically are more humanoid/human like, and can be created to reflect a particular gender.

I also get that you're purposely avoiding normal human proportions but with the small characters and big bodies already decided on, the only spot left is to go for a middle ground. That middle ground just so happens to place them in the "taller than Aremi but not freakishly huge like LAMBDA" category. Which does average out to a human equivalent height...

That aside, if my first design is getting scrapped, what are some points of reference for EPSILON? Incineroar maybe?

To be honest, I just want EPSILON to mirror design traits of LAMBDA, since they share the same origins and are natural foils, therefore they should have complimentary and contrasting elements with each other. That is why LAMBDA is red and black while EPSILON is white and blue, and why they have completely opposite gameplay styles despite their specials sharing a few design elements. It's just hard to describe sometimes with designs like these.

 

[Kirbeh]

To be honest, I just want EPSILON to mirror design traits of LAMBDA, since they share the same origins and are natural foils, therefore they should have complimentary and contrasting elements with each other. That is why LAMBDA is red and black while EPSILON is white and blue, and why they have completely opposite gameplay styles despite their specials sharing a few design elements. It's just hard to describe sometimes with designs like these.

I mean, the already do have some mirroring elements (lore origin, some moves, being robotic/AI) but still contrast just as much (size, color scheme, play style, species inspiration.) Aside from the initial confusion on the android part that's why I tried for the sort of yin and yang thing with them.

I just want a clearer picture on where the similarities and where the differences should be focused. Also, how much you want to lean into the animal traits.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I mean, the already do have some mirroring elements (lore origin, some moves, being robotic/AI) but still contrast just as much (size, color scheme, play style, species inspiration.) Aside from the initial confusion on the android part that's why I tried for the sort of yin and yang thing with them.

I just want a clearer picture on where the similarities and where the differences should be focused. Also, how much you want to lean into the animal traits.

Really I just don't want a human-like face for EPSILON, that just feels... uncanny to me, I love how you set up LAMBDA's face with the animalistic while still looking like a sentient creature, so hope the same would follow for EPSILON. That was just my main issue with the old design, but after seeing the new design for LAMBDA it made me realize that element for EPSILONmay not work, so cutting the face for something animalistic but still sentient looking would likely help.

 

[Kirbeh]

Really I just don't want a human-like face for EPSILON, that just feels... uncanny to me, I love how you set up LAMBDA's face with the animalistic while still looking like a sentient creature, so hope the same would follow for EPSILON. That was just my main issue with the old design, but after seeing the new design for LAMBDA it made me realize that element for EPSILONmay not work, so cutting the face for something animalistic but still sentient looking would likely help.

Old design didn't even have a human face tho? Or much of a face at all really. Since it was such a basic concept, I only ever put down the eyes and mouth, which were still made to be cat-like in quality.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Old design didn't even have a human face tho? Or much of a face at all really. Since it was such a basic concept, I only ever put down the eyes and mouth, which were still made to be cat-like in quality.

I don't know what to say anymore, I just wish the final design is consistent with LAMBDA's design, I don't really care either way what it looks, just keeps those design elements I keep talking about.

As of right now I'm just recording the list of all the planets in our game so far, as to make them easier to reference.

 

[Kirbeh]

I don't know what to say anymore, I just wish the final design is consistent with LAMBDA's design, I don't really care either way what it looks, just keeps those design elements I keep talking about.

As of right now I'm just recording the list of all the planets in our game so far, as to make them easier to reference.

Poor choice, but I'll see what I can come up with.