Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

I saw very little need for Lucas, since Ness gets most of his special moves now.

Are the special moves literally the only thing you see different about them by default?

 

[Opossum]

_

Are the special moves literally the only thing you see different about them by default?

Okay, this has nothing to do with what you said, but I only just realized your avatar is Wario with a Tanooki tail and not Wario sitting on a pile of poop. I must've subconsciously ignored the ears. Damn my eyes.



Also yeah, Lucas and Ness have a lot more than just their specials to distinguish them.

 

[FunAtParties]

There was no reason to believe that beyond wanting to be disappointed.

Saying that completely throws the point of the ballot away.

It was reiterated time and time again that ANY character had a chance. Obviously that wasn't true, but don't put it on fans for believing it when Nintendo kept telling us it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm fairly certain voting with your wallet against Bayonetta would have been useless.

She was a very popular character both in the Smash community and out. She would have made major profits regardless.

Saying that completely throws the point of the ballot away.

It was reiterated time and time again that ANY character had a chance. Obviously that wasn't true, but don't put it on fans for believing it when Nintendo kept telling us it.

it didn't say that. It said you could vote for any character but it never said any character had a shot.

 

[Schnee117]

Saying that completely throws the point of the ballot away.

It was reiterated time and time again that ANY character had a chance. Obviously that wasn't true, but don't put it on fans for believing it when Nintendo kept telling us it.

Nintendo didn't say every character had a chance, just that you could vote for any character.

It's not on Nintendo if fans failed to recognise that a character with a substantial non-playable role in Smash 4 didn't have a shot for Smash 4. That's why they said it'd be taken into consideration for future titles.

 

[FunAtParties]

I'm fairly certain voting with your wallet against Bayonetta would have been useless.

She was a very popular character both in the Smash community and out. She would have made major profits regardless.

it didn't say that. It said you could vote for any character but it never said any character had a shot.

It wasn't just Bayonetta. Corrin and Ryu were other ones I wouldn't have bought had I not tried to play competitive at the time.

I know it wouldn't have made any difference, I'm not an idiot, but it's the damn principal of the thing, Smokey!

Nintendo didn't say every character had a chance, just that you could vote for any character.

It's not on Nintendo if fans failed to recognise that a character with a substantial non-playable role in Smash 4 didn't have a shot for Smash 4. That's why they said it'd be taken into consideration for future titles.

This response is for you and Swamp.

Common sense dictates that what you say is true, but once again, without explicitly stated what they are and aren't considering, you can't blame people for believing they could get pretty much anyone. That's on them. It would be gone much better had they just had a list of contenders you could vote from. That way people's expectations wouldn't have gotten out of whack.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It wasn't just Bayonetta. Corrin and Ryu were other ones I wouldn't have bought had I not tried to play competitive at the time.

I know it wouldn't have made any difference, I'm not an idiot, but it's the damn principal of the thing, Smokey!


This response is for you and Swamp.

Common sense dictates that what you say is true, but once again, without explicitly stated what they are and aren't considering, you can't blame people for believing they could get pretty much anyone. That's on them. It would be gone much better had they just had a list of contenders you could vote from. That way people's expectations wouldn't have gotten out of whack.

If common sense dictates what we say to be true, then how is it Nintendo's fault for expecting people to have common sense?



As for principle of things? What principle? You don't like it you don't buy it. That's fine, but principle? The others aren't supporting any dishonest principles or anything of the sort.

 

[A Distant Demon]

There is a difference between speculation and official confirmation

The only official statement we had was that we could vote for anyone (or at least I think that was the only statement).


As speculators, many believed that we would not get a character with a pre-existing role. However there was no official statement one way or the other and absolutely no prior history to have for a basis since this was the first ballot and first DLC. Believing that a character could get promoted from overwhelming popularity isnt that far fetched.

And for the record, that group I made didn't necessarily mean I thought any of them had a chance haha. I just didn't like people getting kicked out of the forums.

 

[FunAtParties]

If common sense dictates what we say to be true, then how is it Nintendo's fault for expecting people to have common sense?



As for principle of things? What principle? You don't like it you don't buy it. That's fine, but principle? The others aren't supporting any dishonest principles or anything of the sort.

-Because as you are well aware, common sense is not all that common among fans.

-The principle that when you ask fans to pay for characters, you give them what they want. Not characters that were educated guesses, or marketing ploys. After Lucas, only Cloud and Bayonetta were said to have any popularity among our fanbase at all, and to what extent they truly were in that ballot we'll probably never know.



...aaaaaand this is why I don't like to talk about the ballot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There were two official statements about it.

You could vote for anyone. Results would be used in future titles.

That's all.

That said, I can't get upset for Nintendo for an assumption that we ourselves made.

-Because as you are well aware, common sense is not all that common among fans.

-The principle that when you ask fans to pay for characters, you give them what they want. Not characters that were educated guesses, or marketing ploys. After Lucas, only Cloud and Bayonetta were said to have any popularity among our fanbase at all, and to what extent they truly were in that ballot we'll probably never know.



...aaaaaand this is why I don't like to talk about the ballot.

Roy also had tons of fans and Ryu proved to be a popular surprise (who is extremely popular outside of the Smash fan base). We got more fan picks then you're letting on.

 

[Deleted member]

After Lucas, only Cloud and Bayonetta were said to have any popularity among our fanbase at all

Sakurai also mentioned Roy and Ryu.

We’ve received an extremely large number of votes, but of course, Lucas, Roy, and Ryu were in development even before the ballot was created. I had a grasp on their popularity and demand, though.

 

[FunAtParties]

There were two official statements about it.

You could vote for anyone. Results would be used in future titles.

That's all.

That said, I can't get upset for Nintendo for an assumption that we ourselves made.




Roy also had tons of fans and Ryu proved to be a popular surprise (who is extremely popular outside of the Smash fan base). We got more fan picks then you're letting on.

I never said anything against Roy. I don't like him, but his numbers were huge in Japan pre-roster reveal. He was a justified choice imo if only going off of popularity.

Ryu is why I said educated guess, and seeing that Sakurai never even let on he was a popular choice (which he has no issue doing) makes me believe that he wasn't a popular choice. He's a popular video game character who inevitably became popular in Smash after his release, but I have my doubts that he was a popular choice beforehand at any point. The best I've seen him was like at 20 in Japan, and while thats not unnotable, it also means that there were 19 characters ranging from 'a little' more popular to 'holy **** its not even a competition' more popular, all above him in what seemed to be his strongest region.

Had he and a couple others been included in the base game, this would be a different discussion, but AS DLC I find them poor choices.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I never said anything against Roy. I don't like him, but his numbers were huge in Japan pre-roster reveal. He was a justified choice imo if only going off of popularity.

Ryu is why I said educated guess, and seeing that Sakurai never even let on he was a popular choice (which he has no issue doing) makes me believe that he wasn't a popular choice. He's a popular video game character who inevitably became popular in Smash after his release, but I have my doubts that he was a popular choice beforehand at any point. The best I've seen him was like at 20 in Japan, and while thats not unnotable, it also means that there were 19 characters ranging from 'a little' more popular to 'holy **** its not even a competition' more popular, all above him in what seemed to be his strongest region.

Had he and a couple others been included in the base game, this would be a different discussion, but AS DLC I find them poor choices.

Keep in mind though.

We don't have the full picture. Ryu could have been a popular character request easily.

I guess I just take issue with the notion that Sakurai doesn't take fan demand into account when he really does. The far majority of DLC and base roster choices were heavily demanded by fans.

 

[A Distant Demon]

That said, I can't get upset for Nintendo for an assumption that we ourselves made.

Admittedly it's also an assumption that would take literally 5 seconds from Nintendo to disprove.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Admittedly it's also an assumption that would take literally 5 seconds from Nintendo to disprove.

Considering they said results would factor into later games, I don't think that'd be a good idea.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

On my end, I never purchased Lucas, Ryu, or Bayonetta. I saw very little need for Lucas, since Ness gets most of his special moves now. In regards to Ryu, he's a potential controller killer with his unique mechanics.

Alright, and do you regularly participate in a bi-weekly Smashfest where you often play the game with others? Because it's way easier to get away with not dealing with the pressures of having a tournament-standard set-up if you don't play Smash Bros. that often.

With any DLC character, it doesn't matter how unviable or unpopular they are, your set-up isn't legal if it doesn't own all the available characters. If it was a character I would have wanted regardless, then alright, no problems. If DLC characters were free and iterative the way Splatoon and ARMS content works, okay then, I see little reason to get pissed about getting a brand new character if they're free anyway. But it's the combination going on here that affected me negatively. If the character costs another chunk of the base game, and I have zero affinity for this character and even disagreed with them being a part of the cast, and I am required to pay for them if I'm going to continue to support my social circle by bringing a proper Smash 4 set-up, then it's not any bit unreasonable that I'd be upset about Bayonetta's inclusion.

As a part of Smash's demographic that will continue to play the game by far the longest of any other part of the consumer-base, it sucks a feature like a new character feels like more of a burden than it does an enhancement to my experience, but that's what it means to be a part of this community I guess.

I'm ranting at this point so let me just conclude here. Independent of things like Bayonetta "fixing" the ballot or how absurdly broken she was upon her initial release (and continued disproportionately high viability to this day), people like me have a problem with Bayonetta simply based on the format of DLC itself. When a single character in a roster of 50+ characters costs 10% of the base game's total, I would certainly hope they're going to be a character that appeals to me. Paying a disproportionately high amount of money for something I don't want more or less feels like a middle finger to attempting to be devoted to their product. I don't get to protest with my wallet if I want to continue to play the game with my fighting game community, so my only wish is that characters like these would either be less expensive or be characters I actually want to begin with. My salt (and many others' by extension) would wash away if one of those things would be achieved and is something I would immensely hope for in future iterations of the series.

So, it's a bit unfair to dismiss those that feel negatively about this just because you might not yourself.

 

[FunAtParties]

Keep in mind though.

We don't have the full picture. Ryu could have been a popular character request easily.

I guess I just take issue with the notion that Sakurai doesn't take fan demand into account when he really does. The far majority of DLC and base roster choices were heavily demanded by fans.

He clearly takes fan demand into account, not with just characters but other content too, that's why we ot some of the Mii costumes we got, but you have to admit my cherry-picking statement wasn't far off. I'm sure Ryu had popularity of some sort, but to the extent of some other choices? I just doubt it, and then Corrin? We all know what that was.

We all know the wording allows that kind of cherry-picking, but at the beginning this was assumed to be a popularity contest, and nothing else. For a lot of people, this was the time for the K.Rools or the Isaacs, and if it turned out they weren't that popular then so be it, we didn't come through, but questionable choices like the ones I've mentioned, and no results makes it seem like certain factions were just ignored, and that's why people were and are still upset.

Sakurai clearly cares about fans, and tries his best to add content that strategically addresses as many people as possible, but I think a lot of the time he tries to look at the bigger picture for certain choices instead of looking at hard numbers, which in my opinion he shouldn't have done for the ballot, or DLC in general.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, this has nothing to do with what you said, but I only just realized your avatar is Wario with a Tanooki tail and not Wario sitting on a pile of poop. I must've subconsciously ignored the ears. Damn my eyes.

....wat.
Why would I have an avi of someone sitting on poop in the first place? :V

 

[Opossum]

....wat.
Why would I have an avi of someone sitting on poop in the first place? :V

I thought the image was a reference to the drawing Patrick made of Mrs. Puff in that one episode of SpongeBob, okay?

No idea why it rationalized it as that, but that's what I did.

To bring it back to Smash, what music would you guys like to see (well...hear) next time?

 

[_Sheik]

To bring it back to Smash, what music would you guys like to see (well...hear) next time?

Any vocals theme is always welcome (1-Up Girl, etc). If a proper FE Fates stage is in the next Smash, I'd love to hear Alight (Storm) play in it. The final battle theme for FE Shadows of Valentia would be quite welcome too. And lastly (for now since I'm naming these here off the top of my tired head), the Kahuna Battle Music from Pokémon Sun/Moon is still my jam.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Rundus Battle from Prime 3. And Xenoblade X music.

That's it.

Oh and I suppose the Team Skull theme music just for laughs.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Give me Xenoblade X (and 2), Super Mario Odyssey, Fire Emblem Fates, Sushi Strikers (what an intro theme), Breath of the Wild, Super Bomberman R, ARMS (that theme is glorious), Splatoon, and Sonic Forces music.

Or some TMS music if AVEX isn't that hard or expensive to license from.

 

[Deleted member]

To bring it back to Smash, what music would you guys like to see (well...hear) next time?

Aside from what others have said...

Melty Molten Galaxy (Super Mario Galaxy)
Hyrule Castle (A Link to the Past / A Link Between Worlds) - Long overdue.
Lorule Castle (A Link Between Worlds)
It Doesn't Matter (Sonic Adventure 1 / 2)
Title (Mega Man 3)
Xenoblade 2 music

And this isn't even scratching the surface.

 

[Schnee117]

Nothing from Xenoblade X. I'd rather have Sonic Chronicles music than that travesty of a soundtrack.

Donkey Kong stuff that isn't the same theme remixed a bazillion times would be nice.

As for specifics:

Spoiler

- Jump up Super Star!
- Guile's Theme
- One Winged Angel
- J-E-N-O-V-A
- Dancing Mad
- The Decisive Battle
- Apocalypsis Noctis
- Stand Your Ground
- Battle on the Big Bridge (And the FF XV version)
- What I'm Made Of
- You May Call Me Father
- Primal Dialga Battle Theme
- Rundas' Theme
- God Slaying Sword
- Unfinished Battle
- Hyrule Castle (BotW)
- Guyzoch Space Pirate Teio Form
- Xenoblade 2 Battle Theme
- Xenoblade 2 Action Start

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Final Fantasy music?

Nothing's more beautiful than Force Your Way with the transition music. It adds everything to it. The atmosphere of a battle changes with a simple 5 second transition change. It's so simple, yet so effective. That's what really brings the player in. I'd love if more Smash music went with this design, to actually add those small bits to get the feel of the original game.

...No, I can't find a shorter version of it. Point stands. I won't lie, this is one of my favorite FF themes. It does help that it's one of the many great songs that have been remixed, remastered, and played live at concert. VI, VII, VIII, and many others have tons of beautiful soundtracks.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Nothing from Xenoblade X. I'd rather have Sonic Chronicles music than that travesty of a soundtrack.

Not even this?

Or more traditional tracks like this?

Xenoblade Chronicles X had some odd tracks but several outstanding ones as well.

 

[Schnee117]

Not even this?

Or more traditional tracks like this?

Xenoblade Chronicles X had some odd tracks but several outstanding ones as well.

Noctilum is the only one I didn't dislike.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Noctilum is the only one I didn't dislike.

I found a person who didn't like Uncontrollable.

I found the unicorn everybody!


For real though, Xenoblade Chronicles X's soundtrack is lit, fam.

 

[Schnee117]

I found a person who didn't like Uncontrollable.

I found the unicorn everybody!


For real though, Xenoblade Chronicles X's soundtrack is lit, fam.

ThereAreDozensOfUs.gif

I'd like Uncontrollable if they got rid of the terrible singing. Same can be said for several other Xenoblade X tracks.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

ThereAreDozensOfUs.gif

I'd like Uncontrollable if they got rid of the terrible singing. Same can be said for several other Xenoblade X tracks.

You say terrible, I say pretty good.

Only song I don't really like is the New LA theme.

And even then, its kind of meme worthy.

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

I for one enjoyed Xenoblade X's soundtrack. The singing's a bit much at times, but a lot of the songs without lyrics are actually really good.

As for other games... Well, they can't not include songs from Breath of the Wild, Sun and Moon, Splatoon (1 & 2), Mario Odyssey, or ARMS. It'd take a while to name all the themes I wanted from each game.

And I need to be honest, Miitopia has some pretty sick music, judging from the demo.

 

[Deleted member]

It still baffles me this track is still not available for Port Town, you know, the same Port Town from F-Zero GX where this music actually plays?

 

[Tailisu10]

It still baffles me this track is still not available for Port Town, you know, the same Port Town from F-Zero GX where this music actually plays?

It took about a decade for Onett to get Onett, so maybe next game.

 

[Luminario]

If there's any song I want to see in the next Smash it's A Dark Fall from Fates. Also like every battle theme from Splatoon but most of all Calamari Inkantation.
There should also be more Animal Crossing songs in general too. There are quite a few KK Slider songs that can be remixed on their own or made into a medley together that could work really well.

 

[UserKev]

You mean the Lyn that has a pre-determined role in the game?
She never had a chance because of her AT status in Smash 4.

This is what I'm saying. Another quote that gets easy Likes.

She wasn't lost of chance until she was decided to be brought back as an assist. I bet Sakurai had the Smash ballot in store early in development, to.

Wouldn't doing something like that severely limit the potential?

Plus, any characters who did well in the ballot have an even bigger chance to appear in a future game, especially if they're Nintendo characters - Nintendo characters wouldn't have anywhere near the amount of barriers to being included compared to third party characters.

The first sentence in your quote is the ballot in a nutshell. Only pretty much just third party characters have use for it.

 

[Schnee117]

I bet Sakurai had the Smash ballot in store early in development, to.

There is no rational reason to believe that.

 

[Wolfie557]

No series "needs" new characters. But if Sylux has a key role in Prime 4 like is being hinted at, he's definitely a contender.

nah for me certain series need newcomers. Metroid, Zelda, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade and DK basically .
its subjective but i get ur objective view. technically it shouldn't matter much.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Adding this one as well!

 

[SlickWylde]

What would you guys think if Mario got a new down special (saw a little conversation about this a few pages ago) and it was the hat move? How would it work?

It wouldn't really work, would it? It's an interesting idea though. Mario throws the hat and takes over the enemy for like 3 seconds, and his model disappears, and reappears in the same spot after the move finishes?

Yeah they should just change it back to the tornado haha

 

[UserKev]

What would you guys think if Mario got a new down special (saw a little conversation about this a few pages ago) and it was the hat move? How would it work?

It wouldn't really work, would it? It's an interesting idea though. Mario throws the hat and takes over the enemy for like 3 seconds, and his model disappears, and reappears in the same spot after the move finishes?

Yeah they should just change it back to the tornado haha

No no, that's actually pretty good. I see what your getting at. Haha