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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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WeirdChillFever

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I think the Hat Throw can be used, but the possesion mechanic would bring too much depth to a character that's supposed to be jack-of all trades.
But a move where he can throw the hat in different ways, including a Spin Attack and the Hatform I can see happening
 
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SlickWylde

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I think the Hat Throw can be used, but the possesion mechanic would bring too much depth to a character that's supposed to be jack-of all trades.
But a move where he can throw the hat in different ways, including a Spin Attack and the Hatform I can see happening
Oh yeah, good point. It doesn't have to have every attribute from the game it debuts in, just some! Cool. So then what would you use it for? Similar to link's boomerang? Except it would probably do more knock back? Or it could hover in place and let characters jump off of it (almost like a spring, except you don't "bounce").

My biggest issue though is throwing the hat horizontal seems like a weird fit with pressing down+special.

So maybe he actually throws it downward? If he's on the ground it'll launch him upwards, about 1.5x the height of a full jump. If he's in the air it'll basically just cause him to lose downward momentum (similar to yoshi's up+special) and will hit any opponents in its path as it travels downwards.
 
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So, since Star Fox 2 is now an official thing with the SNES mini...


I guess it is time for these two to make an official scene as well?
 

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As for music I'd like to see...

Puzzle Plank Galaxy - Super Mario Galaxy 2
Jump Up Super Star/1-Up Girl - Super Mario Odyssey
Maple Treeway - Mario Kart Wii

Ballad of the Wind Fish - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening

Battle! Frontier Brain - Pokémon Emerald/Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire
Vs Guzma - Pokémon Sun and Moon
Vs Lusamine Version 2 - Pokémon Sun and Moon
Vs Tapu Koko/Lele/Bulu/Fini - Pokémon Sun and Moon
Champion Title Defense - Pokémon Sun and Moon
Intro/Welcome to Alola - Pokémon Sun and Moon

Path of the Hero King - Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon/Fire Emblem Fates
Divine Decree (Ablaze) - Fire Emblem Awakening
You Have Power Like Mine (Tiki's Theme) - Fire Emblem Awakening
Opening Theme - Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
March to Deliverance (Alm Map 1) - Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
Lord of a Dead Empire - Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
The Scions' Dance in Purgatory - Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
Twilight of the Gods - Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
Heritors of Arcadia - Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

(Did I mention how great Shadows of Valentia's soundtrack is?)

Soda Popinski - Punch-Out!!

Deadly Dance II - Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.
March of Progress - Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.
The Lady Liberty - Code Name S.T.E.A.M.
Code Name: T.H.E.M.E. - Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.

Menu - Pac-Man World 2

This isn't even going into unrepresented third party stuff, either, otherwise there'd also be a ton of Crash Bandicoot music, haha. I'd post links, but that's tough on mobile. I'll likely edit them in in case anyone wants to listen!

Edit: Links added! Listen away.
 
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splat

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My biggest issue though is throwing the hat horizontal seems like a weird fit with pressing down+special.
So swap out the cape. It's a fun ability, but didn't he only have it in like, SMW or something?

Replacing the cape would also differentiate Mario with Doc more, while also giving him some new recovery patterns (assuming he could indeed toss it forward and bounce off of it).
 

N3ON

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The fact that Captain Falcon's theme hasn't been in Smash yet is criminal.

Also Dr. Stewarts, which is better, but Captain Falcon is Captain Falcon.
 

Geno Boost

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I have been thinking if wolf or any character that appeared first in starfox 2 were added into smash now will they be listed in 1995 for all star mode? Since the game has already been finished that year.
 

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I have been thinking if wolf or any character that appeared first in starfox 2 were added into smash now will they be listed in 1995 for all star mode? Since the game has already been finished that year.
Believe it or not I've been thinking about this too.

If Wolf came back, I think his debut would still be listed as Star Fox 64, only because Star Fox 2 didn't get an official release until this year. I think release date would trump development date.
 

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I thought the image was a reference to the drawing Patrick made of Mrs. Puff in that one episode of SpongeBob, okay?

No idea why it rationalized it as that, but that's what I did. :p

To bring it back to Smash, what music would you guys like to see (well...hear) next time?
I'll be in the mood for the following (Current third parties included)

  • More Final Fantasy stuff, especially from other FF games. Examples, The Man With the Machine Gun, Clash on the Big Bridge, Battle With the Four Fiends, and much more.
  • From Pokemon: Zinnia's Battle theme, Phos Volcano, Unova Elite Four Battle theme, Hoenn Gym Leader Battle Theme, Johto's Champion Theme, .
  • Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario stuff. Examples: Forest Mushroom, Battle with the Shadow Sirens, and The Ultimate Showdown (Super Paper Mario)
  • A more variety of Sonic stuff other than "Main Theme". Examples: Flying Battery Zone, Metal City, Rusty Ruin Zone, Crisis City, Chaos Angel, and Aquarium Park. Just not Sonic Chronicles.
  • Some Mega Man stuff that isn't part of the original Mega Man's games. Example: Storm Eagle stage.
  • Southern Island from Wave Race 64. Not the Shindou version.
  • Tables Turn - Wonderful 101
  • From DK: Crocodile Cacophony and Big Boss Blues
  • Fortune Street's take on SMW's Bowser fight.
  • Soulcalibur 2's Link's Theme
  • From FE: Divine Decree (Both), Mastermind, something from Fates (I'd personally draw from all story paths.)
  • From Kirby: Miracle Matter fight, any Kirby game post Smash Wii U/3DS
  • Bowser Fight from SMW2: Yoshi's Island
  • The Wart fight music from Super Mario Bros. 2 USA.
  • More Street Fighter stuff.
TL:DR. Basically a lot of stuff.
 

APC99

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Music talk? Hell yeah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOC0ig2Rk1g
Beware the Forest's Mushrooms (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Come On! / Battle Theme (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)
Jump Up, Super Star! (Super Mario Odyssey)
Showdown at the Tower (Donkey Kong '94)
Magma Flows (Kirby Air Ride)
Reflected Laughter (Kirby Triple Deluxe)
Dedede's Royal Payback (Kirby Triple Deluxe)
Vs. the Wicked Company (Kirby Planet Robobot)

...That's just the best from Mario, DK and Kirby. Sonic, Mega Man and Street Fighter could fill an entire page with the amount of good music. Flying Battery Zone? Central Highway? Rashid's Theme? Marble Zone? Tornado Man Stage? Guile's Theme? It's just making me drool thinking about it.
 

Cutie Gwen

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lmao at questioning why they didn't show Ballot results. Isn't it obvious? Besides, the people demanding ballot results the most are the people that refuse to believe Bayonetta won, meaning that if it turns out Bayonetta was indeed the most popular request, they'd just say it was rigged and demand the 'real' results.

Though that makes me question something, why bother rigging it if Bayonetta isn't that popular? It's settling for less potential money, and no company would lie about a most requested character and still make a huge ass profit
 

FunAtParties

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lmao at questioning why they didn't show Ballot results. Isn't it obvious? Besides, the people demanding ballot results the most are the people that refuse to believe Bayonetta won, meaning that if it turns out Bayonetta was indeed the most popular request, they'd just say it was rigged and demand the 'real' results.

Though that makes me question something, why bother rigging it if Bayonetta isn't that popular? It's settling for less potential money, and no company would lie about a most requested character and still make a huge *** profit
People wanted to see the ballot results even before the ballot ended. It's not just because they wanted to challenge the results, some people are genuinely curious of the overall popularity of characters that we don't normally get to see. Everyone always says around here that we represent a small vocal minority, it would be nice to see how true that is. Without the data, we'll never know.

Stop thinking you're one step ahead of people. Wanting knowledge isn't malicious
 

Cutie Gwen

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People wanted to see the ballot results even before the ballot ended. It's not just because they wanted to challenge the results, some people are genuinely curious of the overall popularity of characters that we don't normally get to see. Everyone always says around here that we represent a small vocal minority, it would be nice to see how true that is. Without the data, we'll never know.

Stop thinking you're one step ahead of people. Wanting knowledge isn't malicious
I never claimed it was ALWAYS with malicious intent. It's just that most people I've seen wanting ballot results were angry/salty fans who couldn't believe Bayonetta won over their favourite character
 

Swamp Sensei

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Honestly, no matter what, showing the ballot results is a bad idea.

It'd be nice to know who was popular yes, but imagine the **** storm.

Fanbases attacking each other. Fanbases becoming SUUUUPER confident. Fanbases losing all hope.

It doesn't paint a pretty picture.
 
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FunAtParties

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I never claimed it was ALWAYS with malicious intent. It's just that most people I've seen wanting ballot results were angry/salty fans who couldn't believe Bayonetta won over their favourite character
I'm just going to speak from my perspective, as I can only really speak for me anyway. I've always wanted to see the results. I'm a data fiend, I love to have info, SG is a life saver to me. I discuss and speculate characters along with others here full well knowing the knowledge available, but also knowing that that knowledge can very well be different on a wider scale. Not getting the ballot results is upsetting to me, especially with the constant cries of what I already know, that when claiming a character is popular we can only assume it's popularity for our community.

Theres also no real reason not to release the results. He's done it before, that's why this feels fishy to some.

I also happen to believe Bayonetta wasn't the most popular on the ballot. I just don't see it, and would like to see the results to prove me wrong. I could very well have underestimated Europe's impact, or just looked past her, but I just want to know. I want to know what exactly 'realizable' characters meant, I want to know when the ballot winner was really chosen, and I want to know who were among the most popular.

If he did some iffy stuff or not then so be it, but it's always gonna get on my nerves not knowing.
 

Swamp Sensei

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He's done it before, that's why this feels fishy to some.
If I may.

The other ballot (the Melee one) was not a write in one. All the choices were predetermined.

A write in ballot would be a whole nother beast.
 

FunAtParties

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If I may.

The other ballot (the Melee one) was not a write in one. All the choices were predetermined.

A write in ballot would be a whole nother beast.
I was under the impression it was a ballot, and he just organized things later, but by the notes at the bottom you appear to be right. He mentions that 'he left the characters he wanted in the survey' (but didn't include his votes).

It's very odd to me that he would include James Bond and Alec Trevleyan at all, honestly the fact he even included Rare characters in his survey kind of doesn't make sense to me, but he probably thought it out more thoroughly later.

On topic, I don't know why this would be all that different. He still has to have the results, unless he's just spit-balling and saying 'hmmm well I see a lot of ____ I guess we'll include them' he should have shareable data.

On a different note, I think if they do this in the future, they should go with a multi-vote poll/survey format instead, a lot like the one SG and BluePikmin11 had during the ballot. It's probably the best way to determine characters what characters would be the most universally accepted, seeing that people are all picking out of the same pool of characters, and can pick more than one.

Here was that top 10:

1 Wolf 3.991784914
2 Inkling 3.978438662
3 Ice Climbers 3.88274832
4 Isaac 3.876579926
5 Snake 3.75
6 King K. Rool 3.72417523
7 Bomberman 3.562200957
8 Banjo & Kazooie 3.556962025
9 Chibi Robo 3.353903346
10 Dixie Kong 3.338020552

They let people rate them 1 (worst) through 5 (best) among many other characters and averaged their scores up in the end to see who was most wanted on average. Results here speaks a lot towards our communities perception at the time, on a global scale it was more than likely different, but that doesn't diminsh that it was a great system (though it had it's flaws) and whoever you picked out of that group would've made a lot of people here happy.

In fairness to Bayo she was fairly notable at 27, Ridley kind of shocked me at 22, but the poll is designed to weed out divisive characters, which he unfortunately is.

If the team incorporates this for a potential next game, I think the choices will fair better on average than the ones we got.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I was under the impression it was a ballot, and he just organized things later, but by the notes at the bottom you appear to be right. He mentions that he left the characters he wanted in the survey (but didn't include his votes).

It's very odd to me that he would include James Bond and Alec Trevleyan at all, honestly the fact he even included Rare characters in his survey kind of doesn't make sense to me, but he probably thought it out more thoroughly later.

On topic, I don't know why this would be all that different. He still has to have the results, unless he's just spit-balling and saying 'hmmm well I see a lot of ____ I guess we'll include them' he should have shareable data.

On a different note, I think if they do this in the future, they should go with a multi-vote poll/survey format instead, a lot like the one SG and BluePikmin11 had during the ballot. It's probably the best way to determine characters what characters would be the most universally accepted, seeing that people are all picking out of the same pool of characters, and can pick more than one.

Here was that top 10:

1 Wolf 3.991784914
2 Inkling 3.978438662
3 Ice Climbers 3.88274832
4 Isaac 3.876579926
5 Snake 3.75
6 King K. Rool 3.72417523
7 Bomberman 3.562200957
8 Banjo & Kazooie 3.556962025
9 Chibi Robo 3.353903346
10 Dixie Kong 3.338020552

They let people rate them 1 (worst) through 5 (best) among many other characters and averaged their scores up in the end to see who was most wanted on average. Results here speaks a lot towards our communities perception at the time, on a global scale it was more than likely different, but that doesn't diminsh that it was a great system (though it had it's flaws) and whoever you picked out of that group would've made a lot of people here happy.

In fairness to Bayo she was fairly notable at 27, Ridley kind of shocked me at 22, but the poll is designed to weed out divisive characters, which he unfortunately is.

If the team incorporates this for a potential next game, I think the choices will fair better on average than the ones we got.
That poll was exclusively for Smash 4 dlc wasn't it? Or was Ridley the only Smash 4 character to place high on it?
 

FunAtParties

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That poll was exclusively for Smash 4 dlc wasn't it? Or was Ridley the only Smash 4 character to place high on it?
It was called the "Ultimate Smash Ballot Poll", it was for the DLC. Ridley placed the highest out of AT's and stage hazards (though Waluigi is just one spot under). The idea for a 4th Mii type came in at 20, not sure if that counts in all things 'already in Smash 4'.

The results are here if you want to see more.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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It was called the "Ultimate Smash Ballot Poll", it was for the DLC. Ridley placed the highest out of AT's (though Waluigi is just one spot under). The idea for a 4th Mii type came in at 20, not sure if that counts in all things 'already in Smash 4'.

The results are here if you want to see more.
Thanks. Wasn't sure as there was a whole debacle whether or not Ridley was possible at all.
 

FunAtParties

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Thanks. Wasn't sure as there was a whole debacle whether or not Ridley was possible at all.
Well I mean, there was, and that's what hurts his popularity. I think a lot of people like him, but just don't see him as a fit for Smash, but the poll was there to get a gauge on how people felt about it all. Ridley faired ok, but much worse than previously thought (was seen as one of the most popular choices at the time).
 

Cutie Gwen

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Well I mean, there was, and that's what hurts his popularity. I think a lot of people like him, but just don't see him as a fit for Smash, but the poll was there to get a gauge on how people felt about it all. Ridley faired ok, but much worse than previously thought (was seen as one of the most popular choices at the time).
Plus there's Sakurai's statement a few weeks afterwards.
Still really impressive though for a Base Breaking character
 

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Did they actually show the results of the poll? I didn't remember seeing any official numbers. I thought it was just based off a fan poll, with a small sample size.
 

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Did they actually show the results of the poll? I didn't remember seeing any official numbers. I thought it was just based off a fan poll, with a small sample size.
If you're talking about the fan poll, then yes they did. The results were actually always available and Logo12 just rounded up all the results and averaged them when everything was finished. I linked it in an earlier comment.

If you're talking about the official ballot, then no.
 

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Clearly they couldn't show the full ballot results. Sakurai would have needed to eat crow if he announced Chrom was the real winner.

:p

Nah but for real though, in a way it's kind of nice knowing the four or so characters you really want in are all in the "really low chance" bracket, or require incredibly strict timing to get in. That way I'm not too disappointed if they don't happen, and incredibly surprised if they do. Kind of a pessimistic viewpoint? Kind of. But hey, it works for me.
 

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Clearly they couldn't show the full ballot results. Sakurai would have needed to eat crow if he announced Chrom was the real winner.

:p

Nah but for real though, in a way it's kind of nice knowing the four or so characters you really want in are all in the "really low chance" bracket, or require incredibly strict timing to get in. That way I'm not too disappointed if they don't happen, and incredibly surprised if they do. Kind of a pessimistic viewpoint? Kind of. But hey, it works for me.
Chrom not getting in is all kinds of messed up in my opinion. He was so popular especially over in Japan, plus relevancy, plus Sakurai makes jokes he'd just be a clone of Ike and would add close to nothing, but then goes and adds clones who do just that.

Honestly looking back, the chances of Chrom making it should've been higher then pretty much everyone. How he didn't make it is beyond me.
 
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Here's my take on the whole ballot thing:
  1. Devs open up the Smash Ballot, from April to October. A large number of people write their votes in, hoping to see their choice make it. A lot of companies push their characters as candidates.
  2. It closes in October, with Cloud already in development with no relation to ballot results.
  3. Going through the results, Sakurai looks for a high-ranking character that he can see working as a character.
  4. Out of all the results, Bayonetta sticks out the most to Sakurai with her potential (plus his apparent affinity for her series).
  5. It is decided, Bayonetta will be the Ballot-chosen character.
  6. The Ballot results are saved for later. These can help Sakurai look at popularity.
  7. At some point in between the Ballot and development on Bayonetta, Sakurai chose Corrin as another fighter to help advertise Fire Emblem Fates.
That's about it. My personal view on the Ballot is that it is not necessarily a perfect representation of the top character choices. A lot of characters are "expected" / "obvious choices" (cough cough Inklings / Wolf), so they aren't going to get as many votes as a more obscure character with a huge cult following like K. Rool / Geno / Banjo.
 

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Chrom not getting in is all kinds of messed up in my opinion. He was so popular especially over in Japan, plus relevancy, plus Sakurai makes jokes he'd just be a clone of Ike and would add close to nothing, but then goes and adds clones who do just that.

Honestly looking back, the chances of Chrom making it should've been higher then pretty much everyone. How he didn't make it is beyond me.
Long story short, Robin also existed and had more obvious potential than Chrom.

Not that Chrom didn't have potential. Sakurai even said he made a moveset for him. It's just Robin having magic made things Chrom could do kind of irrelevant in comparison.

In a perfect world, I'd've gotten both, but such is life.
 
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Here's my take on the whole ballot thing:
  1. Devs open up the Smash Ballot, from April to October. A large number of people write their votes in, hoping to see their choice make it. A lot of companies push their characters as candidates.
  2. It closes in October, with Cloud already in development with no relation to ballot results.
  3. Going through the results, Sakurai looks for a high-ranking character that he can see working as a character.
  4. Out of all the results, Bayonetta sticks out the most to Sakurai with her potential (plus his apparent affinity for her series).
  5. It is decided, Bayonetta will be the Ballot-chosen character.
  6. The Ballot results are saved for later. These can help Sakurai look at popularity.
  7. At some point in between the Ballot and development on Bayonetta, Sakurai chose Corrin as another fighter to help advertise Fire Emblem Fates.
That's about it. My personal view on the Ballot is that it is not necessarily a perfect representation of the top character choices. A lot of characters are "expected" / "obvious choices" (cough cough Inklings / Wolf), so they aren't going to get as many votes as a more obscure character with a huge cult following like K. Rool / Geno / Banjo.
Cloud was related to ballot results. Sakurai mentioned Final Fantasy was popular in the ballot, and Cloud was the most frequent choice from that series.

Long story short, Robin also existed and had more obvious potential than Chrom.

Not that Chrom didn't have potential. Sakurai even said he made a moveset for him. It's just Robin having magic made e things Chrom could do kind of irrelevant in comparison.

In a perfect world, I'd've gotten both, but such is life.
Yeah but he could've definitely made it instead of one of Lucina or Roy.
 
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Cloud was related to ballot results. Sakurai mentioned Final Fantasy was popular in the ballot, and Cloud was the most frequent choice from that series.
That doesn't mean Cloud was chosen because of the ballot though. Sakurai never said that. If anything he's just reiterating that the ballot seemed to support something already in development.

People have been clamoring for Cloud long before the ballot was a thing, after all.
 

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Yeah but he could've definitely made it instead of one of Lucina or Roy.
No he couldn't.
Chrom got adapted into a Final Smash.
Lucina came about from differences between her and Marth arising during development as she was planned as an alt.
Roy was chosen as the Melee veteran character for DLC.

 

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That doesn't mean Cloud was chosen because of the ballot though. Sakurai never said that. If anything he's just reiterating that the ballot seemed to support something already in development.

People have been clamoring for Cloud long before the ballot was a thing, after all.
Rereading it, it doesn't say anything about the ballot specifically, so you may be right.

No he couldn't.
Chrom got adapted into a Final Smash.
Lucina came about from differences between her and Marth arising during development as she was planned as an alt.
Roy was chosen as the Melee veteran character for DLC.

That doesn't mean either had to be done, his choices in post mean very little. Point I was making is that they're both clones and Chrom could've been chosen as a clone/semi-clone instead, had he made a different thought process. It wasn't like his hands were tied, those decisions were ones he chose to make.
 

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Honestly, Roy and Lucina were the right choices for clones imo.

One look at the FE poll shows they're both much more popular than Chrom is.

And both were super popular before Smash 4 so I doubt that had much to do with it.

Plus Roy gives the GBA games a character.
 
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