[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[MyDude213]

When they put a bunch of characters who Sakurai has never mentioned and have significantly less fan-demand or "evidence" behind them, and then say Geno has no chance because they don't put in characters based on demand, it's a little hard to ignore that. I'm not saying Geno is the only character that could possibly be in the game, I'm saying this guy is sleeping on his chances way too hard.

I'll be honest this isn't me even hating on Geno or anything as I do feel he deserves his spot at this point even if I personally want Sora more. But Geno's chances of being added significantly drop as DLC. Geno is not a DLC level character he's a base game level character he's popular but from a business perspective and this IS how you should be looking at DLC he doesn't make too much sense. Especially when it's Nintendo picking the characters Sakurai chooses from, not Sakurai going and getting the characters himself. The same rules don't apply at that point for characters at least not from a Sakurai bias point of view since he played no part in the acquisition of those characters. He just picked the characters he could make the moveset for nothing else. Geno and Super Mario RPG though popular just isn't as important to Nintendo as fans would hope it to be it's ****ty and it's sad but it's true. Mario RPG as a concept died as soon as it began really not because the games did bad but because Square and Nintendo at the time just didn't do more with the series. So Nintendo decided to make their own version of Super Mario RPG without Square to co own an IP Nintendo probably wished was entirely theirs from the start. Those games are the Paper Mario and the Mario and Luigi RPGs this is mainly why I personally think Nintendo hasn't tried to revitalize Super Mario RPG they don't feel they need to. Which is unfortunate because it means we probably won't see characters like Geno in the new RPG Mario games in the future which sucks. That's the reason Geno in my opinion makes more sense as a base roster addition Nintendo doesn't really gain anything from it and neither does Square at least from a cross-promotional point of view which is 100% what Nintendo would want for DLC. Let's not pretend like it isn't cause it is that and unfortunately Nintendo, and Square have made it pretty clear what with them not showing any rush to want to make a revival of the game. It has been two decades since Super Mario RPG was made after all. Again I'm not hating on Geno or his chances since I do think he has a chance I just feel he makes way more sense as a base roster character.

 

[EarlTamm]

ore sense as a base roster addition Nintendo doesn't really gain anything from it and neither does Squ

Here's the thing though, does Joker exactly fit this Nintendo perspective you are thinking of? If anything, Joker feels more like a Sakurai choice than Nintendo, as Sakurai loved Persona 5 and the game was a major influence on the UI of Ultimate. It could mean that Sakuria has more influence than we know, or that we are at least misunderstanding the process Nintendo is using when they select there characters. At the end of the day though, I don't think Nintendo is looking at this from an entirely business perspective, otherwise Joker would be a much more bizarre choice unless Nintendo has some grand scheme when it comes to Sega and Atlus.

 

[Starblax]

Here's the thing though, does Joker exactly fit this Nintendo perspective you are thinking of? If anything, Joker feels more like a Sakurai choice than Nintendo, as Sakurai loved Persona 5 and the game was a major influence on the UI of Ultimate. It could mean that Sakuria has more influence than we know, or that we are at least misunderstanding the process Nintendo is using when they select there characters. At the end of the day though, I don't think Nintendo is looking at this from an entirely business perspective, otherwise Joker would be a much more bizarre choice unless Nintendo has some grand scheme when it comes to Sega and Atlus.

No it is very much a Nintendo choice.

ATLUS is a close partner of Nintendo. They got a crossover with Fire Emblem, were able to re-release their older games this year on the 3DS, and SMT started on Nintendo. It's possible they just told him to pick a character from ATLUS and he went with Joker, but at the same time, Joker is incredibly popular due to Persona 5 and if the rumors are right about the upcoming port/Crimson edition, then yeah. It makes far more sense than people really think it does.

 

[MyDude213]

If Disney really has the amount of control on Sora that some people claim, then I can't see it happen. Maybe if Nintendo gave them something in return like a movie license, but then again, Nintendo work with Universal right now ( before anyone wants to point out Detective Pikachu, no, Nintendo doesn't own the movie rights to Pokemon. The Pokemon Company does) They would more than likely demand so much money that Nintendo would just raise their hands and say **** this **** I'm out. This is the same company that bullied theater chains with how Star Wars would work at the cinema when Last Jedi got out, forcing some theaters to skip them completely because the demands didn't work for them for example

If I'm wrong, then good for Sora fans. But at this point I expect two Square reps coming in a combo pack before Sora.

Nintendo is working with BOTH Universal, and Disney right now Universal is making a Mario CGI movie and Nintendo has a deal with Disney for a Nintendo Switch centric TV show. Also yes Disney has a lot of control over Sora no **** you could say the same about any character owned by any studio because they OWN them, that's an expectation. In Sora's case Disney have stated already they're more than okay with the idea of Sora in Smash if they do him justice which they would cause this is Sakurai we're talking about a self proclaimed KH fan and if the fan demand is there which it is. As for Disney stifling Sakurai's creative vision for Sora about the only thing they'd want is for him to not do anything uncharacteristic of his character I.E. flipping people off or some stupid **** like that which is fair and is what any other studio would want if their third party IP were to appear in Smash. You can't really use that as a fault that since it makes no real sense when you think about it for more than like 10 seconds.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'll be honest this isn't me even hating on Geno or anything as I do feel he deserves his spot at this point even if I personally want Sora more. But Geno's chances of being added significantly drop as DLC. Geno is not a DLC level character he's a base game level character he's popular but from a business perspective and this IS how you should be looking at DLC he doesn't make too much sense. Especially when it's Nintendo picking the characters Sakurai chooses from, not Sakurai going and getting the characters himself. The same rules don't apply at that point for characters at least not from a Sakurai bias point of view since he played no part in the acquisition of those characters. He just picked the characters he could make the moveset for nothing else. Geno and Super Mario RPG though popular just isn't as important to Nintendo as fans would hope it to be it's ****ty and it's sad but it's true. Mario RPG as a concept died as soon as it began really not because the games did bad but because Square and Nintendo at the time just didn't do more with the series. So Nintendo decided to make their own version of Super Mario RPG without Square to co own an IP Nintendo probably wished was entirely theirs from the start. Those games are the Paper Mario and the Mario and Luigi RPGs this is mainly why I personally think Nintendo hasn't tried to revitalize Super Mario RPG they don't feel they need to. Which is unfortunate because it means we probably won't see characters like Geno in the new RPG Mario games in the future which sucks. That's the reason Geno in my opinion makes more sense as a base roster addition Nintendo doesn't really gain anything from it and neither does Square at least from a cross-promotional point of view which is 100% what Nintendo would want for DLC. Let's not pretend like it isn't cause it is that and unfortunately Nintendo, and Square have made it pretty clear what with them not showing any rush to want to make a revival of the game. It has been two decades since Super Mario RPG was made after all. Again I'm not hating on Geno or his chances since I do think he has a chance I just feel he makes way more sense as a base roster character.

I get the "Geno is a base game type, not DLC" thing but...Squenix ALWAYS has their picks as DLCs. The only exception was Cloud being in Ultimate's base game-after he initially appeared in SSB4 as DLC.
Any Squenix rep would be DLC, not base game.

Also it's been heavily implied by Reggie that Sakurai and his team still had a big hand in the picks.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I'll be honest this isn't me even hating on Geno or anything as I do feel he deserves his spot at this point even if I personally want Sora more. But Geno's chances of being added significantly drop as DLC. Geno is not a DLC level character he's a base game level character he's popular but from a business perspective and this IS how you should be looking at DLC he doesn't make too much sense. Especially when it's Nintendo picking the characters Sakurai chooses from, not Sakurai going and getting the characters himself. The same rules don't apply at that point for characters at least not from a Sakurai bias point of view since he played no part in the acquisition of those characters. He just picked the characters he could make the moveset for nothing else. Geno and Super Mario RPG though popular just isn't as important to Nintendo as fans would hope it to be it's ****ty and it's sad but it's true. Mario RPG as a concept died as soon as it began really not because the games did bad but because Square and Nintendo at the time just didn't do more with the series. So Nintendo decided to make their own version of Super Mario RPG without Square to co own an IP Nintendo probably wished was entirely theirs from the start. Those games are the Paper Mario and the Mario and Luigi RPGs this is mainly why I personally think Nintendo hasn't tried to revitalize Super Mario RPG they don't feel they need to. Which is unfortunate because it means we probably won't see characters like Geno in the new RPG Mario games in the future which sucks. That's the reason Geno in my opinion makes more sense as a base roster addition Nintendo doesn't really gain anything from it and neither does Square at least from a cross-promotional point of view which is 100% what Nintendo would want for DLC. Let's not pretend like it isn't cause it is that and unfortunately Nintendo, and Square have made it pretty clear what with them not showing any rush to want to make a revival of the game. It has been two decades since Super Mario RPG was made after all. Again I'm not hating on Geno or his chances since I do think he has a chance I just feel he makes way more sense as a base roster character.

I would argue the opposite, actually. From a business perspective, they want to make DLC characters who people will buy. The question is really who would make more money for Nintendo/Square. If it was Sora, it'd be split between three companies instead of just two. And Geno 100% would sell as much as Sora. I'm not going to say one would sell more than the other, because I can't say who would, but for Sora to make more money, he'd have to be 1.3 times as popular. In general? Yes, Sora is probably way more than 1.3x as popular as Geno. Among people who are huge fans of smash bros? People who are going to buy dlc for this game? Geno is almost certainly just as popular if not slightly more. Maybe slightly less, too. Again, I have no idea. If Nintendo really cared about promoting games as much as you're saying, they wouldn't have added Joker. A character from a game not on a Nintendo console.

Also, every single mario RPG (paper/&luigi/etc) borrows and is inspired by SMRPG heavily. Bowser's entire personality in these games is practically the exact same. Meaning, Geno doesn't just rep one game, he, in spirit, represents an entire sub-series of mario, that being the RPG games. Not to mention the chance of a sequel/remake for switch.

Even if Nintendo decided "from this point on, after Joker, only characters that advertise games for Switch," they wouldn't put in Sora. He's gonna be on playstation forever. Yeah, there's a chance KH3 will be ported to Switch, but there's also a chance of SMRPG 2, or SMRPG HD.

Sora and Geno are easily the two best choices for DLC, and if ownership of characters and such weren't complicated, they'd be equally likely. It's just that Sora is partially owned by Disney, and Sakurai likes Geno more (as far as we know) that makes Geno seem more likely to me. Apparently nobody has ever said no to Nintendo for smash, so Sora isn't totally out of the question because of Disney, obviously. I just think Geno is slightly higher. Especially because he's got more fan demand since Melee.

Also for the record... KH2 is probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite RPG of all time, and Sora would make me very happy if he got in. I have nothing against the dude. I just wish KH3 were coming to switch so I could play it

 

[MyDude213]

Here's the thing though, does Joker exactly fit this Nintendo perspective you are thinking of? If anything, Joker feels more like a Sakurai choice than Nintendo, as Sakurai loved Persona 5 and the game was a major influence on the UI of Ultimate. It could mean that Sakuria has more influence than we know, or that we are at least misunderstanding the process Nintendo is using when they select there characters. At the end of the day though, I don't think Nintendo is looking at this from an entirely business perspective, otherwise Joker would be a much more bizarre choice unless Nintendo has some grand scheme when it comes to Sega and Atlus.

Yes, yes he does since he is cross promotion Persona Q2 which is a game Nintendo exclusive features Joker and just launched in Japan. He's also arguably the second most popular Persona main character apart from say Yu he just happens to be more recent so he probably carried more priority for Nintendo. The fact Nintendo put him on the list when Sakurai was already a fan of the character just made his decision easier but I 100% doubt Sakurai had any actual role in the scouting the DLC characters at least not until Sakurai gave him the list of characters he could choose from.

 

[EarlTamm]

I would argue the opposite, actually. From a business perspective, they want to make DLC characters who people will buy. The question is really who would make more money for Nintendo/Square. If it was Sora, it'd be split between three companies instead of just two. And Geno 100% would sell as much as Sora. I'm not going to say one would sell more than the other, because I can't say who would, but for Sora to make more money, he'd have to be 1.3 times as popular. In general? Yes, Sora is probably way more than 1.3x as popular as Geno. Among people who are huge fans of smash bros? People who are going to buy dlc for this game? Geno is almost certainly just as popular if not slightly more. Maybe slightly less, too. Again, I have no idea. If Nintendo really cared about promoting games as much as you're saying, they wouldn't have added Joker. A character from a game not on a Nintendo console.

Also, every single mario RPG (paper/&luigi/etc) borrows and is inspired by SMRPG heavily. Bowser's entire personality in these games is practically the exact same. Meaning, Geno doesn't just rep one game, he, in spirit, represents an entire sub-series of mario, that being the RPG games. Not to mention the chance of a sequel/remake for switch.

Even if Nintendo decided "from this point on, after Joker, only characters that advertise games for Switch," they wouldn't put in Sora. He's gonna be on playstation forever. Yeah, there's a chance KH3 will be ported to Switch, but there's also a chance of SMRPG 2, or SMRPG HD.

Sora and Geno are easily the two best choices for DLC, and if ownership of characters and such weren't complicated, they'd be equally likely. It's just that Sora is partially owned by Disney, and Sakurai likes Geno more (as far as we know) that makes Geno seem more likely to me. Apparently nobody has ever said no to Nintendo for smash, so Sora isn't totally out of the question because of Disney, obviously. I just think Geno is slightly higher. Especially because he's got more fan demand since Melee.

Also for the record... KH2 is probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite RPG of all time, and Sora would make me very happy if he got in. I have nothing against the dude. I just wish KH3 were coming to switch so I could play it

I would also like to add that SMRPG was also one of the first times Nintendo ever gave one of there properties to another company for a game. And if I am wrong on that, it was certainly a first for Mario. It would also served as a showcase of a character that was born from when Nintendo and Square's relationship peaked, right before the messy divorce.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So basically the Psychonauts effect? I do think the game is more popular than most give it credit for. It's still a Mario game at the end of the day, and an important one at that.

Yeah, exactly that.

You're sleeping on Geno so hard. He got a mii fighter costume in smash 4, which was the ONLY ONE to receive a splash screen as if he were a fighter. They put in King K Rool EXCLUSIVELY because of fan demand. They put in Ridley despite Sakurai thinking he wouldn't work for decades, because of fan demand. Sakurai wants Geno in Smash. Persona 5 isn't on switch, and no Persona game ever has been to my knowledge. Nintendo doesn't give a **** about "promoting games," they just want people to enjoy smash bros. If they were gonna put in an advertisement character, it'd be in the base game. Like Isabelle was. Corrin is the only character that was debateably an advertisement character as DLC, but Corrin was actually added because Sakurai's team begged him to put them in. Not to mention, they re-release SMRPG every few years as VC, and it was on the SNES Classic.

In the wise words of Videogamedunkey...

"So... you're a dumb-dumb."

Persona Q and Q2 are on 3DS, and that’s not counting the decades of history the Megami Tensei franchise has with Nintendo.

I mean he literally went after everyone on that list but sure let's turn this into another pointless Geno "debate" (more like one sided rant honestly) nobody needs or even asked for. Lord knows we need more of those right?... right.

They weren’t making a rant, they were just putting forward a point. We can debate Geno as well.

If Disney really has the amount of control on Sora that some people claim, then I can't see it happen. Maybe if Nintendo gave them something in return like a movie license, but then again, Nintendo work with Universal right now ( before anyone wants to point out Detective Pikachu, no, Nintendo doesn't own the movie rights to Pokemon. The Pokemon Company does) They would more than likely demand so much money that Nintendo would just raise their hands and say **** this **** I'm out. This is the same company that bullied theater chains with how Star Wars would work at the cinema when Last Jedi got out, forcing some theaters to skip them completely because the demands didn't work for them for example

If I'm wrong, then good for Sora fans. But at this point I expect two Square reps coming in a combo pack before Sora.

Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 is Switch-exclusive. Marvel is owned by Disney.

 

[EarlTamm]

Persona Q and Q2 are on 3DS, and that’s not counting the decades of history the Megami Tensei franchise has with Nintendo.

I do want to point something out about this and why this is important. If Nintendo were selecting a DQ character, I think they would have gone for more direct Shin Megami representation. Thinka bout it, FF, DQ and SM are the three classic pillars of the JRPG market. If you had plans to include DQ, it would make sense to get a SM rep for the crossover factor alone. "Look, we have collected all of the classic JRPG franchises you love in one game! Isn't this an amazing crossover!" Rather, Nintendo opted for the spinoff that out shined it's older brother, as well as forfeiting that legacy for the more popular and wanted choice. I could be wrong about this logic, but it's worth considering, especially with Reggie boating Smash's crossover factor during the Game Awards.

 

[Deleted member]

Yo Shi, do you think Sora and Geno are out because of what Verge's been told or?

That's pretty much it, otherwise I'd think they're the most likely. While Geno could be bias, Sora's situation seems to be a much harder deconfirmation from what Polar Panda told us so I don't think it's wise to hold on to any hope for him.

 

[MyDude213]

[QUOTE="GoodGrief741,



They weren’t making a rant, they were just putting forward a point. We can debate Geno as well.


I get that hey probably didn't mean it that way and I never said we can't debate him as well it's just that's literally what it always devolves into every ****ing time when he's brought up in the way they brought him up in that comment. I've yet to not see a long ass winded rant happen when ever the shear mention of Geno in any way good or negative. It's becoming a meme at this point and not a funny one that was my problem with it. Not that he talked about Geno just that people can't seem to ever bring him up without getting waaay too passionate about it.

 

[Luigi The President]

That's pretty much it, otherwise I'd think they're the most likely. While Geno could be bias, Sora's situation seems to be a much harder deconfirmation from what Polar Panda told us so I don't think it's wise to hold on to any hope for him.

I mean, these same sources informed Verge the Squenix rep would be the first revealed.
I do think Joker has reasonably cast a lot of doubt onto the claims about the rep.

 

[EarlTamm]

Not that he talked about Geno just that people can't seem to ever bring him up without getting waaay too passionate about it.

It's a character with well over a decade of support history. Passion is what kept Geno apart of the conversation. Heck, just recently in the Geno thread a long time Geno supporter that had been around for well over a decade decided that it was time to retire and pass the torch to the newer fans. As silly as that may sound, being a Geno fan means carrying a long legacy of fan support.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, these same sources informed Verge the Squenix rep would be the first revealed.
I do think Joker has reasonably cast a lot of doubt onto the claims about the rep.

I just can't shrug off something like "everyone who heard this character knows they aren't in and if the reason for that got out people could lose their jobs". There's gotta be a big reason for that and I wouldn't be surprised if it was "Square didn't want to deal with Disney and Nomura wasn't happy about that at all."

Geno is kinda on the fence and it all depends on whether the ones saying to not take him seriously were indeed biased or not.

 

[Deleted member]

Sora is weird because I can see him happening as easily as I can see him not happening. If it weren't for Disney, I'd actually go and say he's probably a lock. Like straight up Sora is that big, and fits in that well that it just makes too much sense.

But, it's Nintendo. They may very well go after Sora and if they do I'll have a heart attack and drop dead on instantaneous viewing

Right on the nose. Honestly considering the fact that Nintendo is already collaborating with direct competitors of Disney (albeit in different industries), it's really tough to call. There weren't also any Nintendo characters or references in Wreck it Ralph 2 (if I'm not mistaken) even though iirc it was said early in its development Mario was supposed to show up.
But, there are also plenty of things going FOR Sora that people have already said, so I won't be redundant.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You're sleeping on Geno so hard. He got a mii fighter costume in smash 4, which was the ONLY ONE to receive a splash screen as if he were a fighter. They put in King K Rool EXCLUSIVELY because of fan demand. They put in Ridley despite Sakurai thinking he wouldn't work for decades, because of fan demand. Sakurai wants Geno in Smash. Persona 5 isn't on switch, and no Persona game ever has been to my knowledge. Nintendo doesn't give a **** about "promoting games," they just want people to enjoy smash bros. If they were gonna put in an advertisement character, it'd be in the base game. Like Isabelle was. Corrin is the only character that was debateably an advertisement character as DLC, but Corrin was actually added because Sakurai's team begged him to put them in. Not to mention, they re-release SMRPG every few years as VC, and it was on the SNES Classic.

In the wise words of Videogamedunkey...

"So... you're a dumb-dumb."

Persona isn't on Nintendo consoles, but you know what has a historic relationship with Nintendo and an upcoming Switch exclusive that Persona is a more popular spin-off of?

Shin Megami Tensei. This point is moot.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll never understand Persona Q. Why make a spin off of your most popular series with the gameplay of an incredibly niche one and release it on a console that has almost none of your fanbase?
Also, Persona is as much of a SMT spin off as DKC is a spin off of the original DK game, which is to say none. It quickly became its own thing and you can see that by how they dropped the "SMT" subtitle from newer Persona games.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Persona isn't on Nintendo consoles, but you know what has a historic relationship with Nintendo and an upcoming Switch exclusive that Persona is a more popular spin-off of?

Shin Megami Tensei. This point is moot.

Then why didn't we get a Shin Megami Tensei fighter??? As someone who's never played any of these games, I had no ****ing clue it was a spinoff of that series, or that it had anything to do with it. The point is assuredly not moot.

 

[Luigi The President]

Then why didn't we get a Shin Megami Tensei fighter??? As someone who's never played any of these games, I had no ****ing clue it was a spinoff of that series, or that it had anything to do with it. The point is assuredly not moot.

Because Persona is much more famous then SMT.

Hey man. As a fellow Geno crusader, the point is moot. Persona is an SMT spin-off; SMT still has very extensive Nintendo history, and even Persona does as well.

 

[TheYungLink]

It's why Joker is compared to Cloud: both their main series are well-associated with Nintendo, just not their exact games (FF7 and P5).

That said if Joker only gets like 2 songs I'll riot.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Because Persona is much more famous then SMT.

Hey man. As a fellow Geno crusader, the point is moot. Persona is an SMT spin-off; SMT still has very extensive Nintendo history, and even Persona does as well.

The point isn't moot at all. Persona is not a Nintendo franchise. Nintendo doesn't stand to gain anything advertising it. If they wanted to advertise SMT, they'd put in a SMT character. If they wanted to advertise Persona Q, they'd put in a Persona Q character. The only people who know that Joker is technically from SMT in a way are people who already play SMT/Persona. Seeing Joker in Smash makes me want to try out Persona, not SMT, and not Persona Q. Nintendo is putting in characters that people want. Including Sakurai's opinion more than anyone apparently, since he loves Persona 5. They are not going to put in a character nobody asked for just to advertise a game, because then nobody will buy it. They probably learned their lesson from Corrin.

Need I mention Cloud, when FF7 wasn't on a Nintendo console, and FF hasn't been since the SNES days?

Nintendo cares first and foremost about selling the DLC, not about advertising. When Joker was announced, Reggie said the rest of the fighter pack is going to follow a similar trend of Joker... and what that says to me, is they don't give a **** if the character is Nintendo-owned, they don't give a **** if the character is advertising an upcoming game, they don't care about how "impossible" a character is to get in Smash. They care about making fans happy, and are putting in characters that fans want. While I personally don't know anything about Persona or care about Joker, I know TONS of people who are massively excited for him, and thought he'd never get in.

Sora and Geno are both in a Joker-esque position. Tons of people want him, most of those people think it'll never happen.
"I'd love Sora but he's owned by Square and Disney. He's not even on Nintendo consoles usually."
"I'd love Geno, but he's so irrelevant and hasn't had a game in 20 years."
"I'd love Banjo, but he's owned by a direct competitor of Nintendo and hasn't had a game in 15 years."

"I'd love Joker, but he's never been on a Nintendo console and is only really in one game as a major character."

 

[Luigi The President]

The point isn't moot at all. Persona is not a Nintendo franchise. Nintendo doesn't stand to gain anything advertising it. If they wanted to advertise SMT, they'd put in a SMT character. If they wanted to advertise Persona Q, they'd put in a Persona Q character. The only people who know that Joker is technically from SMT in a way are people who already play SMT/Persona. Seeing Joker in Smash makes me want to try out Persona, not SMT, and not Persona Q. Nintendo is putting in characters that people want. Including Sakurai's opinion more than anyone apparently, since he loves Persona 5. They are not going to put in a character nobody asked for just to advertise a game, because then nobody will buy it. They probably learned their lesson from Corrin.

Need I mention Cloud, when FF7 wasn't on a Nintendo console, and FF hasn't been since the SNES days?

Nintendo cares first and foremost about selling the DLC, not about advertising. When Joker was announced, Reggie said the rest of the fighter pack is going to follow a similar trend of Joker... and what that says to me, is they don't give a **** if the character is Nintendo-owned, they don't give a **** if the character is advertising an upcoming game, they don't care about how "impossible" a character is to get in Smash. They care about making fans happy, and are putting in characters that fans want. While I personally don't know anything about Persona or care about Joker, I know TONS of people who are massively excited for him, and thought he'd never get in.

Sora and Geno are both in a Joker-esque position. Tons of people want him, most of those people think it'll never happen.
"I'd love Sora but he's owned by Square and Disney. He's not even on Nintendo consoles usually."
"I'd love Geno, but he's so irrelevant and hasn't had a game in 20 years."
"I'd love Banjo, but he's owned by a direct competitor of Nintendo and hasn't had a game in 15 years."

"I'd love Joker, but he's never been on a Nintendo console and is only really in one game as a major character."

Except...Joker IS a Persona Q character.
He is the star of Persona Q 2, a Nintendo exclusive.
So.

I do agree Nintendo won't prioritize promotional picks, though.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

You're sleeping on Geno so hard. He got a mii fighter costume in smash 4, which was the ONLY ONE to receive a splash screen as if he were a fighter. They put in King K Rool EXCLUSIVELY because of fan demand. They put in Ridley despite Sakurai thinking he wouldn't work for decades, because of fan demand. Sakurai wants Geno in Smash. Persona 5 isn't on switch, and no Persona game ever has been to my knowledge. Nintendo doesn't give a **** about "promoting games," they just want people to enjoy smash bros. If they were gonna put in an advertisement character, it'd be in the base game. Like Isabelle was. Corrin is the only character that was debateably an advertisement character as DLC, but Corrin was actually added because Sakurai's team begged him to put them in. Not to mention, they re-release SMRPG every few years as VC, and it was on the SNES Classic.

In the wise words of Videogamedunkey...

"So... you're a dumb-dumb."

a-****ing-men

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Except...Joker IS a Persona Q character.
He is the star of Persona Q 2, a Nintendo exclusive.
So.

I do agree Nintendo won't prioritize promotional picks, though.

Go ahead and watch the Joker trailer again. What game did they mention? (The answer is persona 5. Not Persona Q 2.)

After Persona Q 2, Joker will likely never be in a Persona game again. At least, not as a major character. I know like nothing about persona so take this with a grain of salt, but according to the Persona wiki they have a different protagonist every game.

 

[Deleted member]

This discussion is gonna be fun when they announce that rumoured P5 port :^)

 

[Luigi The President]

Go ahead and watch the Joker trailer again. What game did they mention? (The answer is persona 5. Not Persona Q 2.)

After Persona Q 2, Joker will likely never be in a Persona game again. At least, not as a major character. I know like nothing about persona so take this with a grain of salt, but according to the Persona wiki they have a different protagonist every game.

That doesn't negate my point.
He is starring in a Nintendo exclusive game...his mere inclusion will promote that.

Also, I know a LOT about Persona, and you're wrong.
He's already appearing in tons of spin-offs.

Another mainline Persona? Maybe, but we're not gonna have that for at least 4-5 years, minimum.

I'll never understand Persona Q. Why make a spin off of your most popular series with the gameplay of an incredibly niche one and release it on a console that has almost none of your fanbase?
Also, Persona is as much of a SMT spin off as DKC is a spin off of the original DK game, which is to say none. It quickly became its own thing and you can see that by how they dropped the "SMT" subtitle from newer Persona games.

See Shi I totally get why you feel this way but I just don't think I can agree.
The Persona's themselves, the majority of them are all present in SMT. This establishes a really firm connection, completely unlike DK to DKC.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

This discussion is gonna be fun when they announce that rumoured P5 port :^)

Even if they do, it still really doesn't matter. Cloud was put in. He likely got in with no intention of bringing the FF7 remake with him, even if that does happen. If Joker were meant to advertise, they'd have announced that Persona port along with Joker.

 

[Deleted member]

I just don't get why some of you can't wrap your heads around why Joker was included.
Joke is a Persona protagonist. Persona is popular. Persona is owned by Atlus. Atlus has a very close relationship to Nintendo. Atlus gets to advertise theirnaost 4-year old game again and Nintendo gets to sell DLC while attracting Persona fans in. Win-win for both.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Persona is as much of a SMT spin off as DKC is a spin off of the original DK game, which is to say none. It quickly became its own thing and you can see that by how they dropped the "SMT" subtitle from newer Persona games.

According to this press release sent out after The Game Awards and Joker's reveal, PERSONA IS A SPIN-OFF OF SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI

The Persona games are a spinoff of the popular Shin Megami Tensei franchise, which has a long and storied history in the world of video games – with many of the games appearing on Nintendo systems.

Therefore, Joker is representative of the Shin Megami Tensei series!

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I just don't get why some of you can't wrap your heads around why Joker was included.
Joke is a Persona protagonist. Persona is popular. Persona is owned by Atlus. Atlus has a very close relationship to Nintendo. Atlus gets to advertise theirnaost 4-year old game again and Nintendo gets to sell DLC while attracting Persona fans in. Win-win for both.

I know exactly why Joker was included. It's because people wanted him in Smash. Sakurai included.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

According to this press release sent out after The Game Awards and Joker's reveal, PERSONA IS A SPIN-OFF OF SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI


Therefore, Joker is representative of the Shin Megami Tensei series!

I think this can't be concluded until we get the series emblem for Smash revealed.

 

[Luigi The President]

I know exactly why Joker was included. It's because people wanted him in Smash. Sakurai included.

And also so Atlus can promote their game, Nintendo can attract even more fans and get a ton of revenue.
There can be multiple reasons.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

And also so Atlus can promote their game, Nintendo can attract even more fans and get a ton of revenue.
There can be multiple reasons.

Yes, but that's probably not the main reason. Literally, Piranha Plant is the only character we've gotten in Ultimate so far that WASN'T a fan-demand outcry, and he doesn't really even advertise anything. Even Incineroar had a ton of fan demand. (Though, Incineroar was likely put in just because Sakurai wanted him, regardless of fan demand.)

I honestly think the DLC is going to be entirely fan-demand characters, if not Sakurai-demand characters or some combination of both. I'm not just talking about Geno or Sora or Banjo or whoever else, either. If we get a character that isn't highly requested and is just an "advertisement" character, I will be thoroughly surprised.

 

[Luigi The President]

Yes, but that's probably not the main reason. Literally, Piranha Plant is the only character we've gotten in Ultimate so far that WASN'T a fan-demand outcry, and he doesn't really even advertise anything. Even Incineroar had a ton of fan demand. (Though, Incineroar was likely put in just because Sakurai wanted him, regardless of fan demand.)

I honestly think the DLC is going to be entirely fan-demand characters, if not Sakurai-demand characters or some combination of both. I'm not just talking about Geno or Sora or Banjo or whoever else, either. If we get a character that isn't highly requested and is just an "advertisement" character, I will be thoroughly surprised.

Incineroar? Fan demand? BIG lol to that, as a huge Incineroar supporter.

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment, as much as I'd like this to be true.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think this can't be concluded until we get the series emblem for Smash revealed.

You do understand what a press release is, right?

It's a statement from Nintendo that covers a recent event. This is FROM NINTENDO.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

You do understand what a press release is, right?

It's a statement from Nintendo that covers a recent event. This is FROM NINTENDO.

I mean I'm aware of this. I'm just saying that there might be a future event where they state otherwise. Companies do not always stay consistent with their information; so we should all take it with a grain of salt while it's just word of mouth alone. For example; we do not know if PP has a stage due to inconsistent information. So all we can do is wait it out for clearer information. Does this make sense?

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Incineroar? Fan demand? BIG lol to that, as a huge Incineroar supporter.

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment, as much as I'd like this to be true.

Not fan demand anywhere near as much as K Rool or Geno or Ridley, obviously. It was quite a lot, though. On a similar level to Chrom. Not to mention, I'm sure tons of casual Nintendo fans who never talk about Smash online were very happy about Incineroar, too. He is a starter pokemon, after all.

I'm not setting myself up for disappointment. The way I see it, we're either going to get 5 DLC characters I don't care about but other people do (like Joker or Banjo) or we're going to get 5 DLC characters that include one or both of the only two characters I want. Either way, it'd still be 5 fan-demanded picks. Assuming they weren't already in, Chrom/Dark Samus/Bayonetta/Ken could be the other 4, and would all be fan-demanded picks. I wouldn't care about them, but they all were highly requested by Smash fans.

I'm an optimist, sure. I just think if Nintendo only cared about selfish goals then Joker never would've gotten in at all. Do I think Geno is 100% likely? Yes. No. Do I think each of the remaining 4 DLC characters will all make tons of people happy? Yes. 100% Yes. I have zero reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Had to double-check I was looking at the right thread, is there seriously a debate whether Joker qualifies as an SMT character?

I mean, answer me this: is Yoshi a Mario character? Both of these questions have the same answer.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Had to double-check I was looking at the right thread, is there seriously a debate whether Joker qualifies as an SMT character?

I mean, answer me this: is Yoshi a Mario character? Both of these questions have the same answer.

Is Diddy Kong a Mario character?