The New Mario Match-Up Index

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Diddy is 2 gud for Mario after wut i saw when adhd vs boss (diddy vs mario) played each other a few months back..

 

[HeroMystic]

It's funny how a discussion like this wasn't supposed to happen on this thread.

 

[Theburningfireball]

Hmm I think Mario can fare well vs diddy.
Mario has fast arials and it isn't that hard to juggle Diddy really..
The only thing he has on us is his ground game, what's superb.
We can cape stall before we land so it makes his banana options worse.
Try to approach alot with Fireballs to grab,dair,dsmash etc. Or bait a Glidetossed nana out and use UpB Oos for example.
I think it's 55-45 for Mario.

 

[mars16]

This langer then I thought it take

 

[Calebyte]

Anyone interested in helping finishing this? I'm going to finish it anyway for solely my own benefit, but any help would be welcome.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I have no diddy MU experience, so I can only contribute on paper. Sorry. Kirin's "I'm ganna hold this banana and spam you with fireballs" match was pretty lulzy.

 

[Calebyte]

I have no diddy MU experience, so I can only contribute on paper. Sorry. Kirin's "I'm ganna hold this banana and spam you with fireballs" match was pretty lulzy.

I mean the entire OP, not just the Diddy MU.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

F**K Diddy...

 

[SKidd]

I believe we discuss Diddy right now

and then someone else after

Vato should do the write-up on this one methinks (That is, if he will >_>).

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's probably slight favor Diddy since he has ******** moves like SideB, F-air, and Dash attack which are kinda hard for Mario to respond to, but it's overall a pretty good matchup for Mario in the sense that he usually lives longer than Diddy, and he can control Diddy's Bananas pretty competently.

 

[HeroMystic]

Diddy has already been written up (by me).

Pick someone else.

 

[Fire!]

Wario or Meta Knight

 

[SKidd]

Wario.

10warios

 

[JuxtaposeX]

MetaKnight
10nados

 

[condemned_soul]

Wario.

10farts

 

[Fire!]

You should call on some players from the other boards to write some of these match ups. This would probably go a lot faster that way.

 

[Calebyte]

You should call on some players from the other boards to write some of these match ups. This would probably go a lot faster that way.

Wouldn't that just turn this into another match-up discussion thread? Since we'd be working with all new material and discussion?

I'm fine with that, BUT:

Originally, the purpose of this thread was take what we (the Mario boards) have already talked about in our discussion thread and put it all in one, easy-to-reference, post. I hate it when I want quick tips on a match up and I have to muscle through pages and pages of old posts to find what I'm looking for.

I'd like it if the OP to our current MU thread was more like this. I PM'd Inferno about it but I haven't gotten a response, which means he probably doesn't like the idea even though I offered to do all the work. I'm fine with turning this into a new match-up discussion thread, but I don't really want to upstage or undermine the work that Inferno's done with his thread. I'm just really trying not to step on any toes here.

Idk, what do you guys think? Wanna go ahead and turn this into a match-up rediscussion thread?

 

[HeroMystic]

I doubt anything has changed really.

Re-discussing wouldn't be worth much.

 

[Naisora]

I liked the goal of this thread. But then its activity stopped all of a sudden. I would help, but i havent been as active with brawl lately, as i used to.

 

[mars16]

No Luigi update yet...

 

[HeroMystic]

Since no one has any balls, I'll do Metaknight and Luigi. Maybe Wario. My knowledge per match-up isn't perfect, but better than nothing.

 

[HeroMystic]

Double Post since I got balls.

This is from my old Match-Up Index Thread. I'd say most of it still holds true, just new information particularly about Sliding U-Smash and Anti-Air options need to be tacked on.

Use the descriptions on the thread if you want, but I'll probably re-evaluate them in the near future.

Metaknight - 35:65

Summary

While Chaingrab tries to make Mario lose all his options, Metaknight forces Mario to use all that he has. Metaknight is Mario's second hardest match-up and for good reason. Metaknight out-speeds and out-ranges Mario in nearly all categories except for aerial speed. His sword does not clash with any attack besides his glide attack, meaning that even if Mario's attacks come out at the same time, Metaknight will win simply due to his range. He is also the best edgeguarder in the game and can do reliable gimping with his D-air. With five multijumps, gliding and three special moves that helps his recovery, he is quite difficult to gimp. His kill moves are D-Smash, F-Smash, and N-air. D-Smash is quite spammable and very risky to punish. F-Smash has some lag in the beginning but is a good mindgame tool when being charged, and N-air will more than likely be used to kill when Mario is off-stage.

Mario however, has his tools to fight back. Metaknight has no way of stopping Mario's fireballs except for shielding, which gives you breathing room and allows Mario to stop his momentum. D-Smash is an excellent punisher for Metaknight's D-Smash since it comes out just as fast. A reverse U-Smash does just as well if Mario's back is behind Metaknight's. Mario can somewhat combo Metaknight, but a lot of it will deal with mindgames and baiting. Most of all however, Mario is one of the few characters that can gimp Metaknight. Shuttle Loop is highly exploitable to FIHL, which clashes with Metaknight's glide attack, which would put him in a helpless state to allow Mario to go for the kill or gimp him with the cape.

A few other tidbits are Metaknight's tornado can be beaten with the last hit of D-air, cape, or Up-B OOS. Metaknight is quite light so U-Smash is a good kill move here, and so is F-Smash. A lot of this match is Mario fully utilizing his defensive abilities, taking advantage of any mistakes, and knowing what one can do in any given situation.

Despite all this, this is quite winnable match-up for Mario, as long as the player keeps a cool head.

Counterpick Stages: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island

 

[Calebyte]

Thanks Hero. I'll go ahead and do Wario.

By the way, I didn't know you had made the Match Up Index...good stuff, it's basically identical to the purpose of this thread. Sorry, I didn't mean to usurp you or anything. D: At any rate, I'm adding it to the list of references in the OP.

 

[HeroMystic]

Nah, it's cool. I made that many moons ago but it never got finished cause I went on a hiatus. Your thread's legit.

 

[Reducas]

You should call on some players from the other boards to write some of these match ups. This would probably go a lot faster that way.

sounds great and you should look at some mario replays to put on video ill upload me vs some snake marth and pika

 

[ThatGuy]

MK vs Mario is probably 70:30 or worse. Mario has a great deal of difficulty handling MK's ground maneuverability and grab game. His Ftilt is ******** good and cannot be spaced around. UpB is a very very risky option to deal with Tornado as most of the time it ties or eventually gets hit by random nado hitboxes, and once you land you're stuck with RCO lag. A low tornado can be beaten quite easily with a Usmash while facing towards MK. A high tornado cannot be beaten easily and is usually a free move on Mario if you're stuck below it. And you need some serious luck to gimp MK, most of the time going for the gimp results in getting gimped.

 

[BSP]

I'd vouch for 70 :30 as well. Ftilt is that good, and if you go aerial, he can beat you with an aerial still or just invincible shuttle loop you.

 

[HeroMystic]

I agree 65:35 is probably too light.

The MK match-up is practically an 80:20 or worse if you take planking into account as well, but honestly all MK has to do is perfect his spacing and the match is his. This is just one of those matches were Mario's short range really, really hurts.

 

[Calebyte]

Yeah, I'd also vouch for 70:30 at best, probably closer to 80:20. MK shuts down everything Mario has. No other MU makes me feel like I have no options like MK does. I'd rather fight Chaingrab any day.

 

[Reducas]

i think mk vs mario is 65:35. look at these matches and see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFpcOzJNhRs Reducas Mario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgRxzGgbvXU&feature=related Reducas Mario 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dGlFMHmA8c&feature=related Boss Mario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0EJ78KLpdw&playnext=1&videos=XCiTSJlEdhs&feature=mfu_in_order Fire! Mario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32--uTTO6CE&feature=related Fire! Mario 2

From there you can point out the flaws and our mistakes

 

[ThatGuy]

Reducas matches:
I was not impressed with Stud. His spacing was not very good, he never ran under your fireballs, and did not aggressively go for grabs. Look what happened when he spammed nado, you punished it maybe twice with Usmash, and one time was because you were approaching with it anyways. You got some fsmash on him OOS when it ended but that was because he did not move far away towards the end of the move. You spam smashes when he gets close and this is highly punishable behavior; I would be wary of this in the future.

Boss:
2k8 video. Korn doesn't use Ftilt, Grab, Tornado, or UpB. He did not play very patiently as you should expect. Some decent play by Boss though.

Fire:
Probably the best example of the MK vs Mario matchup, although I don't think Fire's Mario was good enough to make it an accurate representation of equal skill between the Mario and the MK. He looked absolutely helpless in those matches and my guess is you linked them because of the gimps. Game 1's gimp was SUPER lucky and I'm actually surprised the shuttle loop didn't hit Mario there. Game 2 he got 2 capes (including a 9% gimp) because the MK kept doing the shuttle loop in the exact same spot. And he STILL lost that one!

 

[Reducas]

i posted it to show there was diffrent ways to aproch mk, in boss video he charged in. my first one i camped first stock at 1:12 i slide up smash to try and get the kill but i got the first stock with a fwsmash.2 stock i fwsmash after fludd flew him up and he stop tornado. 3 stock im not going to lie was very luck i knew he was going to use tornado to get to me when the third fireball hit i saw him stop tornado so the forth fireball help and i slide upsmash FTW!!!!!!!!

Fire in my opion i think showed some good tactic in both videos aginst mk. he took second stock with cape ****. and if you notice at 2:31 mk spamed fwsmahs then dsmash to get fire out thats why i spam when mk near me

Fire on bf he spaced a lil from mk. he tried to many gimps. but i love the way he caught mk from shuttle loop. he caped to get the two stocks but he din't watch out for shuttle loop in the air and thats somthing everbody should be awar of is if your in the air mk will shuttle loop to kill you..

 

[Calebyte]

Here's a recent Mario MK matchup.

Zozefup (MK) - 1

Zoze is ranked in IL, so I would say this is a pretty even match in terms of player skill, though it should be noted he had no experience with a top-level Mario before this. And Xero STILL lost, despite some great moments.

EDIT: I still say 35:75 to 20:80. Mario can outplay MK in every respect and still lose. All MK has to do is stay patient. Sooner or later Mario will be offstage and then it's game over, man. Game over.

 

[Reducas]

lol i like the cape **** on the tornado but that mk look scared. in my opion you should use all our vids on the mk post

 

[ThatGuy]

Oof, I thought he would take it with the second cape too. He played it well. Makes me wonder if I should stop SH fireball entirely vs MK if he's less than half a stage length away.

 

[Reducas]

Xero did gud against wario post that in video for wario

 

[HeroMystic]

Keep in mind 90% of MK players aren't "good". So most of the time, the match-up won't be represented correctly.

 

[Reducas]

true thats what all the videos look like.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Oof, I thought he would take it with the second cape too. He played it well. Makes me wonder if I should stop SH fireball entirely vs MK if he's less than half a stage length away.

Naww, those fireballs are really legit

 

[Count]

"90% of meta knight players aren't good"..i'm fairly sure that is a false assumption. I can't think of any bad players that main Meta Knight in the Midwest. Maybe one or two.

keep in mind that EVERYONE knows the meta knight matchup.

That being said it is my opinion that Xero is a significantly better player than zozefup. The matchup's awful.