A roster of "ankle biters" specifically designed for 3v1 with Goomba at the fore would be neat (likely with a general limitation of "no grabs" or something). But most players would probably better appreciate just more standard fighters, like "king goomba" or whatever
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Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)
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WeirdChillFever
Smash Hero
I don’t like F.L.U.D.D. because I can’t aim it for **** and when I use the move it almost always just aims downwards.
FazDude
Smash Master
At first I was concerned about on-screen distinguishing between BWD and a standard Waddle Dee, but then I had an idea...
Not only would a jousting-based BWD riding an Awoofy be something unique, it'd also be really cool moveset-wise.
SubspaceJigglypuff
Subspace's greatest warrior
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I don't dislike F.L.U.D.D.'s, it just feels out of place on a character that's supposed to be Smash's "Default" character since there's like, 1-2 other moves like it.
Though Wario had a good point; maybe if Smash had a lot more moves like that it'd feel less weird.
I think every character should have something highly unique, even (especially?) Mario
UserKev
Smash Champion
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I'm going to try to word this clearly as possible. I greatly dislike the criteria of diversifying the roster. I find Echoes a fun addition and honestly is what makes Smash, Smash. Clone-y/Echoe fighters is a rich part of brawler games and they don't really need to be "Exterminated" for lack of a better word.
This is a good post I decided to leave here from the Gear Grinder thread to help my argument. De-Echoing characters is actually depressing and ultimately deludes the roster rather than creating a fun outlook because quite frankly, there are people that enjoy echoes/clone-y fighters over unique additions. I'm one of them. Ganondorf is really the only "Terrible" clone "echo" that needs a rework in some possible way.
One way of looking at echoes is they're a basic form of customization. I do think moves like Parry were more interesting when it belonged to a small handful of fighters. In that particular case I think new replacements would be a welcome change by most
SubspaceJigglypuff
Subspace's greatest warrior
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Most fighters should definitely have some highly unique tools, but I think all good fighter games should have at least one character that's optimized to be as "standard" in every move as humanly possible.
Personally, the only "bad" clone/echos are the ones that change literally nothing at all. But so long as they're Dark Pit level different minimum - bring on the ckones/echos, different takes on existing movesets are always nice to have
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KingofPhantoms
The Spook Factor
Anything from the iconic Ground Pound, to the Star Spin or Cappy himself would make for a great new special move for Mario, imo.
I do think he should at least keep the cape, however, since, as simple of a move as it is and as few of the actual Mario games that the Cape has actually appeared as a power-up in, it's a genuinely useful tool for reflecting projectiles, edge guarding, and, in some cases, even just briefly messing an opponent's flow or attacks up since it turns them around, which itself is what makes it so useful for edge guarding in the first place.
It's not an iconic ability by any means but there aren't many other reflects quite like in Smash, so I do think it'd be a shame balancing-wise if Mario lost it. If any of Mario's special moves should be replaced, it should definitely be FLUDD.
I do think he should at least keep the cape, however, since, as simple of a move as it is and as few of the actual Mario games that the Cape has actually appeared as a power-up in, it's a genuinely useful tool for reflecting projectiles, edge guarding, and, in some cases, even just briefly messing an opponent's flow or attacks up since it turns them around, which itself is what makes it so useful for edge guarding in the first place.
It's not an iconic ability by any means but there aren't many other reflects quite like in Smash, so I do think it'd be a shame balancing-wise if Mario lost it. If any of Mario's special moves should be replaced, it should definitely be FLUDD.
The Minecraft music selection in Smash is pretty good. I would have liked a C418 track or two, but even so, lots of the remixes keep the spirit of music that would have been composed by him. It's genuinely impressive how many famous legacy game composers worked on some of the songs too.
I hate fludd because genuinely, its only use is being a noncommital edgeguarding option, when Mario already has a lot of them that are more committal and way more exciting to see thrown out (like bair, fair, fireball, hell Cape is probably one of the coolest moves in Smash period)
But I'm not saying FLUDD should be removed, he could have the other nozzles (boost for a burst option, and Rocket for a really high but non-damaging recovery). If you do want to replace it, I think the spin from Galaxy would be nice, bit of a way to extend his insane ladder combos further.
My perfect scenario would be a Ground Pound. Yeah, other characters have it already (Bowser, Yoshi, plenty more if you count stall n fall dairs)...but it's Mario, he can't not have a ground pound.
But I'm not saying FLUDD should be removed, he could have the other nozzles (boost for a burst option, and Rocket for a really high but non-damaging recovery). If you do want to replace it, I think the spin from Galaxy would be nice, bit of a way to extend his insane ladder combos further.
My perfect scenario would be a Ground Pound. Yeah, other characters have it already (Bowser, Yoshi, plenty more if you count stall n fall dairs)...but it's Mario, he can't not have a ground pound.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
Well maybe but not in smash the case is bwd is just more complete!
Like theres some generic waddle dee stuff like boats, and swinging on vines that doesnt really fit bwd but thats not to interesting!
I think adding bwds spear with beam and parasol is the way to go!
Easily fits him but reps the species as a whole!
With 6 bwd alts and one generic waddle dee and doo one!
The value of displacing someone away from center stage may be a touch underrated, with regard to the aerial-centric characters of ultimate like Ike. Same goes for the side-throws vs combo starters, in theory. But yes I'm certainly not married to FLUDD either, apart from the goofiness factor (which is not to say a potential replacement ought to have like-goofiness)
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A fun evolution to uncommon cute thing of Dees having ridden large enemies like Nruffs since Dreamland 3. Super-cool idea!At first I was concerned about on-screen distinguishing between BWD and a standard Waddle Dee, but then I had an idea...
Not only would a jousting-based BWD riding an Awoofy be something unique, it'd also be really cool moveset-wise.
I could even see BDee possessing other different mooks to ride on for his jousting mechanic/special, such as Grizz, aforementioned Nruffs, Buffahorn from Forgotten Land, and so on.
I wondered if one could also have unorthodox choices like Golem or Gator or even some of the minibosses we see in Kirby at large, but I feel the controls wouldn't be able to feel as 1:1 on above and it'd be also overcomplicating a possibly straight-forward mechanic (or special move).
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DragonRobotKing26
Smash Champion
a PlayStation rep for Smash could be impossible, but since Lego Horizon, Patapon and Everybody's Golf who are PlayStation exculsives joining the Switch, it could have a potencial for Smash have a PlayStation rep, Western PS characters as Kratos, Ratchet & Clank, Sackboy, Nathan Drake and others couldn't have a change, but i think Japan Studio characters or Astro Bot can joins in Smash
Wario Wario Wario
Smash Legend
Aloy was created in the Netherlands, her series is a western PS series.
The mention of Aloy brings me back a little to this take
and honestly I do think that whenever I see people suggest an objective reasoning for a character I don't care for, and I agree, my first response is to think "what character do I like who statisfies that?" - for Decidueye being an archer, that led me to Apollo; for Bandee being a spear user, that led me to Bubbles; so on.
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KingofPhantoms
The Spook Factor
I first got the chance to play Clu Clu Land well over a decade ago thanks to Animal Crossing on the Gamecube. I really liked the game, so I'd unironically love it if Bubbles got to be a newcomer in the next Smash.
The only problem is I'm not sure what she would do for a moveset...I do think she's gotten at least one character support thread for either Smash 4 or Ultimate (or one for both) that may have had some complete moveset concepts, so I don't think it's unfeasible.
The only problem is I'm not sure what she would do for a moveset...I do think she's gotten at least one character support thread for either Smash 4 or Ultimate (or one for both) that may have had some complete moveset concepts, so I don't think it's unfeasible.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
At first I was concerned about on-screen distinguishing between BWD and a standard Waddle Dee, but then I had an idea...
Not only would a jousting-based BWD riding an Awoofy be something unique, it'd also be really cool moveset-wise.
I feel like the rider moveset would fit a Regular Waddle Dee better, since BWD's never rode any mooks himself. He's mostly settled as the guy with a spear, and occasionally a parasol. A mounted fighter would be pretty fun, thoughA fun evolution to uncommon cute thing of Dees having ridden large enemies like Nruffs since Dreamland 3. Super-cool idea!
I could even see BDee possessing other different mooks to ride on for his jousting mechanic/special, such as Grizz, aforementioned Nruffs, Buffahorn from Forgotten Land, and so on.
I wondered if one could also have unorthodox choices like Golem or Gator or even some of the minibosses we see in Kirby at large, but I feel the controls wouldn't be able to feel as 1:1 on above and it'd be also overcomplicating a possibly straight-forward mechanic (or special move).
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Prolly - but since we're most likely not gonna have both BDee and regular Waddle Dee on the roster at the same time, I prefer to get as many composite aspects of a species/mooks on one representator if possible - it's not that uncommon for characters getting new abilities or skills when added in Smash, and I feel BDee making use of that would be nicely accepted anyway, especially if it's complementing his spear attacks and range.
(Also I don't think I wanna even go to the rabbit hole of debating the headache of an image of a Regular Waddle Dee being put to Smash over Bandanna Dee.
)I actually had been exploring Bubbles eons ago once, figuring if her gimmick (or more a limitation that could lead to some creativity) is how she's always in motion, and maybe relies on a special deploying the spinning poles from her game to "keep her in place".
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FazDude
Smash Master
Fair point, but I think BWD using his spear to do medieval-horseback jousting would be fun. Granted, you can ALSO do that with a regular Waddle Dee (since they've been shown to have spears in games like Super Star), but...
Actually, yeah, let's just have two spear-wielding Waddle Dees but make them play different LMAO
I think I had a go at making a moveset for her in the pre 4 days. can't remember too much
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Wish we could have had Petey Piranha in same vein with
on the roster... 
An alt of BDee without his bandanna for a regular Waddle Dee could be pretty close though.
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Among Waddle Dees
Smash Journeyman
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Imma have to take slight umbrage to the inclusion of a regular Waddle Dee being a headache-inducing concept. There's a lot you can do with the Waddle Dee race alone, rivaling that of the Shy Guy in terms of versatility. There really isn't any disadvantage to giving Waddle Dee a Bandana Dee option with all the versality of a regular Dee. If anything, it would make Bandee's credence rise extensively.Prolly - but since we're most likely not gonna have both BDee and regular Waddle Dee on the roster at the same time, I prefer to get as many composite aspects of a species/mooks on one representator if possible - it's not that uncommon for characters getting new abilities or skills when added in Smash, and I feel BDee making use of that would be nicely accepted anyway, especially if it's complementing his spear attacks and range.
(Also I don't think I wanna even go to the rabbit hole of debating the headache of an image of a Regular Waddle Dee being put to Smash over Bandanna Dee.
Maybe there'd be a point if we somehow didn't get a Bandana variant.
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Possibly, but that's due how Waddle Dees were used in the actual games due their simple design and signature role as a basic mook. Of course they'd be getting ton of abilties or things to do.
I guess what I mean by whole headache-inducing concept is shortly how apparently BDee has to face competition of being represented, or even outright taken by nameless member of his species, in spite of his recurring role and prestige in Kirby-series so far. Do we need Smash to suddenly make a new superstar out of a generic Waddle Dee when we have BDee right there to represent them in all forms if need be, and already has actual tangible history and fanbase? Makes me feel like we could have had Toad by now due how "versatile" he could be through his highly varying roles and affinity to powerups...
I can handle one Piranha Plant, probably one Wii Fit Trainer incase we get Ring Fit Trainer later - but more nameless and rudimentary-function mooks or NPCs would make Smash stray too often away from being the kind of profilic crossover that has been able to bring many fanbases together, through characters they've grown with and played as.
In short, I do feel bit baffled how BDee's now considered not a priority when presented next to a regular Waddle Dee and only one of them would get in. A regular Waddle Dee would be still taking the spotlight away from a currently big mainstay that represents his species which I don't think would gel well with HAL using him regularly as he'd be overshadowed by bigger Smash-fanbase now revolving around a regular basic mook of the species BDee's part of.
FazDude
Smash Master
I don't feel this is entirely true - The "generic Waddle Dee" crowd that's come out in this thread isn't even close to a major portion of the Smash playerbase, and there is zero doubt in my mind the overwhelming majority would take BWD over a generic Dee (myself included). IIRC, WaWaWa initially brought up the topic as BWD co-existing with a generic Dee, and I could honestly rock with that.In short, I do feel bit baffled how BDee's now considered not a priority when presented next to a regular Waddle Dee and only one of them would get in. A regular Waddle Dee would be still taking the spotlight away from a currently big mainstay that represents his species which I don't think would gel well with HAL using him regularly as he'd be overshadowed by bigger Smash-fanbase now revolving around a regular basic mook of the species BDee's part of.
(this all being said yes please add toad)
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Among Waddle Dees
Smash Journeyman
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I feel severely at odds with differentiating Bandana Dee with the rest of the Dees. There are probably specific reasons for doing so, but generally speaking, the refusal to allow cross-references for the sake of keeping the identity of the individual... betrays the point of having a mook mascot in the first place. Most other ally mooks from other franchises incorporate some kind of elements of their enemy roles without having to drastically stick out from the crowd. Heck, I'd argue the Waddle Dee from 64 did this just fine, despite being the only one in that title! Bandana Dee being immune to that trait just... doesn't strike me as particularly good design. At least in Forgotten Land, he had his kin to back up.
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LiveStudioAudience
Smash Master
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BWD in general is in an odd place because the character's appeal is often coming from contrasting places that don't necessarily overlap. For some the association/representation of Waddle Dees is inherent to what makes him work and to not include elements from that or embrace it in something like Smash would feel off. For others, him standing apart from others of his kind is exactly the point. To them, much like the bandana that made him stick out, his growing prominence, taking on the spear as a weapon, and emerging as Kirby's major friend are the aspects that make him special.
It's a difference between Bandana WADDLE DEE and BANDANA Waddle Dee in terms of emphasis, which is what sparks the debates about what he should be in Smash.
It's a difference between Bandana WADDLE DEE and BANDANA Waddle Dee in terms of emphasis, which is what sparks the debates about what he should be in Smash.
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Considering he has no proper name (unless he's akin to "Toad the toad, the one brave toad" (but I shouldn't mention the Mario movie lest I commit some cardinal sin)) this seems to be the case. I'm honestly in the dark as to this fervor surrounding banana dee, and I've played my fair share of Kirby games. I can only assume he plays a pivotal role in the Wii game which I might get around to playing if I ever happen upon a buddy or three. Of course smash doesn't shy away from obscure references according to sakurais whims, so why not I guess
Wario Wario Wario
Smash Legend
See, to me, I think of Smash being prolific on the level it is, and the expectations that causes, to be a flaw that holds back the potential for its roster and movesets; I find playing as characters from source materials I like to be a novelty side-option on the same level as Special Smash or Stamina while the real meat is in functions; and even putting that aside, the characters I tend to get attached to are... well, nameless, rudimentary function characters. If I didn't like - say - Who Are You Running From as a character on some level, I wouldn't be talking about them. I like to reinterpret games, movies, TV, e.t.c., and a big part of that to me is developing out characters who well, don't have any, and to me, a fundamental part of the appeal of a crossover is that the creators of a crossover can do that, and provide a springboard for players to discover other characters without their context to reinterpret into something different befitting of those they're familiar with.
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MartianSnake
Smash Ace
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Well Toad is an individual character, so is Bandana Dee, so is Captain Toad, but not Waddle Dee
I don't see any hypocrisy
AlRex
Smash Lord
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My preference order for any of the permutations of these minions: Grue > Slime (DQ) > Chocobo > Goomba > Koopa Troopa > a weird specialist PT like Youngster Joey or Hex Maniac > Toad > Waddle Dee.
Any of the Badniks, the Metools, ServBots, Minecraft mobs, I’m neutral but also don’t expect (not that I expect anything aside from Dee, maybe Toad, and mayyyyybe Slime and/or Chocobo here either). That’s about who I can think of who’d be in the conversation at all, and even including Zork is me being an obscure weirdo enjoyer.
Any of the Badniks, the Metools, ServBots, Minecraft mobs, I’m neutral but also don’t expect (not that I expect anything aside from Dee, maybe Toad, and mayyyyybe Slime and/or Chocobo here either). That’s about who I can think of who’d be in the conversation at all, and even including Zork is me being an obscure weirdo enjoyer.
GoldenYuiitusin
Smash Lord
Wario Wario Wario
Smash Legend
I like to think of Yoshi in Smash as "just another Yoshi" and not "THE Yoshi", I'd probably think of Toad the same way if he got in (if there even is a "THE Toad", given the whole red vs. blue thing) (hell, is there even a THE Yoshi in the Yoshi game series? Every single Yoshi game has you play as a team of Yoshis, not just green, and YIDS strongly implies that the green Yoshi seen in Mario sports games and such wasn't there for SMW2, and then Yoshi's Story suggests the baby Yoshis there were born after SMW2 through Bowser Jr's battle quotes... And the baby Yoshi from YIDS can't be one of the Story Yoshis because they were born from a nest and not alone... Hell, Yoshi's rep in Smash is based on Story primarily but Yoshi isn't depicted as a baby either. Jesus Christ we should be on like 7 identical Yoshis now if Smash really showed that much value in distinguishing individual characters. New Island's title was literal so that's another Yoshi)
One idea I did have a while back was adding Kamek, but all his alts except default are called "Magikoopa", that'd be pretty neat. I wonder if you could do the same thing with Bandee, only one alt has a bandanna but that's the default.
One idea I did have a while back was adding Kamek, but all his alts except default are called "Magikoopa", that'd be pretty neat. I wonder if you could do the same thing with Bandee, only one alt has a bandanna but that's the default.
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Lenidem
Smash Lord
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Without diving too much into the Yoshi's lore, I think it's kinda neat that you can view the situation as you like. I don't know about the Waddle Dees, but it is heavily implied that there is a "main" Toad and a "main" (green) Yoshi (or, at the very least, that Mario and Luigi have a special affinity with the green ones). However, it is only implied and kinda blurry, so we are free to see it the way we want. If they add Toad in the next Smash, considering him as "a" Toad or "the" Toad would probably be both valid interpretations. And that's cool.
AlRex
Smash Lord
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I forgot Space Invaders when I said this. Sometimes, Space Invaders are my most wanted or at least close.
Iconic enough with gaming and pop culture in general to be an emoji, even.Either way I guess dedede's original side-b is right out. It was fun populating the field with disassociated minions. Then again I see no reason why Toad both as a character and peach's neutral-b can't coexist also. Even though I always thought the "spore attack" was very visceral and weird, that's not really a bad thing
E-Solz
Smash Rookie
I personally think they would change the move if toad Was added, unless they gave toad some resistance to it or some thing cuz idk species
Thegameandwatch
Smash Ace
Probably just an example of how Melee was somewhat experimental with movesets like how it’s more common for characters to have unique special moves like the side specials for Bowser, Luigi and Peach or ones that were more unorthodox like how Pikachu uses Skull Bash.
Wario Wario Wario
Smash Legend
I think it is hypocritical to say Sora inherently "deserved" to get in and/or was inherently a good last bow-out on virtue of the ballot, but also say that - for example - FE rep shouldn't be trimmed down; Melee mechanics shouldn't be reimplemented; or Waluigi and Goku shouldn't get in. Those are also strongly fan-demanded changes, yet I feel like most times I see strongly someone oppose things like that, they're very much in favor of fan demand and the way SSBU handled it otherwise.
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