Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I swear this thread gets worse every day.

Maybe it could do with a temporary locking to calm things down at this rate.

Because TheZizz , what you're discussing has gone on a bit too long for kind of volatile off-topic subject. I think that's exactly why it got moved on from before Oracle Link had to bring it back again. Can we move this discussion to another thread?

I read this thread is a groggy morning haze and briefly thought there was an argument about Clippy being a femboy.

Anyway, regarding entirely different Smash matters, I would be perfectly fine with having asymmetrical amount of alternate colors/costumes for fighters. Make sure there's at least 8 for everyone, but some characters lend themselves to different looks more than others. Like I don't think Wario having 16 choices and Mr. Game & Watch having 8 is inherently unfair, just an acknowledgement that there's more one can do with the former appearance wise.

Hmm, that made me think on how we could do with more character skins to buy over Mii Costumes even in general. Would let me finally see most of Pikmin's ensemble across the series, not just Alph. (I wanna play as Charlie and Loiue, dammit)

 

[Baysha]

As an aside, the reason I personally want Clippy is because the Clippy MUGEN character by The_None is really fun.

Spoiler: Swearing (yes, really)

Clippit/The None's version

After this character was lost in a HDD crash in 2006 and "released" as an April Fools character in 2012, it finally sees the light of day after 10 years. This character notably has a larger damage output than other characters, but it also comes with a lower Defence and only one projectile move...

mugen.fandom.com

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I think some of my takes about Smash may have been rooted in me being a Mugen kid lmao. I think I was already down this train by the time that Clippy came out, but I did have this and it must have done something or other permanently to my perception of fighting game rosters. A lot of my Mugen experience was like... one-off cartoon characters vs. rando American Sega games vs. TV intro logos. And it was beautiful.

 

[FazDude]

Maybe it could do with a temporary locking to calm things down at this rate.

Yeah... probably. Like, I get this is the Unpopular Smash Opinions thread and all, so there's bound to be disagreements, but the "BE CIVIL" part hasn't really been reflected in the past few days. Maybe a bit of a temporary time-out is in order.

On the topic of alts, though, I've been preaching a costume/color system similar to Street Fighter for a bit now. Give each character a few models to work with based on their source material, then make recolors of those. More flexible than the current strictly-only-eight-alts model, but also a lot more clear in its purpose than like one or two characters having 16 alts and being outliers.

 

[Perkilator]

On the topic of alts, though, I've been preaching a costume/color system similar to Street Fighter for a bit now. Give each character a few models to work with based on their source material, then make recolors of those. More flexible than the current strictly-only-eight-alts model, but also a lot more clear in its purpose than like one or two characters having 16 alts and being outliers.

Similarly, I’ve been preaching for a color editor for those select few models per character.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Similarly, I’ve been preaching for a color editor for those select few models per character.

I think a colour editor would be like the one thing that could convince me to come back to a future Smash, unmodded, no-ifs-and-buts. I've had quite a bit of fun with Rivals' colour editor, and remember enjoying the colour editor in Simpsons Road Rage for GBA as a kid.

 

[fogbadge]

Of course, I happen to think it's a limiting belief to do so (human beings are mind bogglingly much more than the most grandiose label that anyone could muster in a thousand lifetimes) but keep them off me or else I just might dub thee "aquarius-phobe" and have all the same basis



You parsed all that from "one humanity"? I'm the first to enjoy differences in people. Even (especially?) among those of the same culture. Differences are beautiful just the same. Great observation

Here’s the thing none of us believe you when you say that cause you were shaming a cartoon character for not conforming to your standards of how he should look while at the same time plastering him with whatever label you fancy. So your claim that you’re all for diversity rings a little hollow when your actions suggest the opposite

 

[Ze Diglett]

I think I've said this before, but "all of gaming: the game" and "Nintendo all-stars: the game" are both equally valid approaches. The thing I don't like is a weird, awkward middle ground. Smash is general is really big on compromise and I ain't a fan of it.

The problem with making Smash an uncompromised vision of "all of gaming: the game" is that it'd require them to cut every single character except Mario, Pikachu, the 3Ps, and maybe R.O.B. or something. That's not something they can realistically do without just making a spinoff, which would need a compelling gameplay hook.

Maybe it could do with a temporary locking to calm things down at this rate.

I dunno, I think this is a pretty clear-cut case of one problem user continually derailing the thread. No need to cut down the whole tree over a few bad apples like this site did with the Geno thread a few years back.

 

[TheZizz]

I dunno, I think this is a pretty clear-cut case of one problem user continually derailing the thread. No need to cut down the whole tree over a few bad apples like this site did with the Geno thread a few years back.

My overtly silly "alt costume" list was segwayed into a topic of great interest to me and the "off-topic" thread is locked so yea, the defense rests. Let the Valkyrie exact final judgment

 

[UserKev]

I swear this thread gets worse every day.

If you asked me, I think excessive debating defeats the purpose of the unpopular opinion thread. A opinion is well, an opinion. It doesn't necessarily warrant a chain reaction. You agree (Like) or disagree and leave it alone. Lately I have been noticing this thread is becoming like a family tree of reactions that drag on the opinion more than anything that might not even be well, unpopular. The og thread was locked due to excessive replies.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This wouldn't happen given how impractical it would be to create the animation and enemy interactions for so many characters, but if Smash absolutely had to do another SSE esque mode, I wouldn't mind it being in the form of a semi-isometric 2D beat 'em up on a 3D plane ala Streets of Rage and Final Fight. It plays to SSB's strengths more than platforming does and would make stuff like co-op play more practical to do.

 

[SharkLord]

I swear this thread gets worse every day.

If you asked me, I think excessive debating defeats the purpose of the unpopular opinion thread. A opinion is well, an opinion. It doesn't necessarily warrant a chain reaction. You agree (Like) or disagree and leave it alone. Lately I have been noticing this thread is becoming like a family tree of reactions that drag on the opinion more than anything that might not even be well, unpopular. The og thread was locked due to excessive replies.

Yeah, my hot take of the day is that the thread's kinda devolved into a bunch of inane arguments with a bit of accusations and name-calling mixed in. Sure, there's also just people airing their own unpopular opinions like the thread's for, but as a whole this thread is a bit of a mess right now

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Kirby not being allowed to use a keyblade because of KH lore is one of the stupidest things ever. In general I think a lot of the "love and passion" put into respecting all aspects of a source material ends up counter-intuitive even on a cosmetic level, and I'd much prefer if Smash took the Fortnite mismatch approach.

 

[fogbadge]

Kirby not being allowed to use a keyblade because of KH lore is one of the stupidest things ever. In general I think a lot of the "love and passion" put into respecting all aspects of a source material ends up counter-intuitive even on a cosmetic level, and I'd much prefer if Smash took the Fortnite mismatch approach.

I don’t think that was ever confirmed

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...Isn't it more likely that Kirby using a specific weapon has to be allowed and more needs to be licensed how said weapon is used(these are new animations too, so that does require licensing)? Lore is a fun excuse on its own, but even if it was that case, the rights holders should be allowed to make that decision. It's their IP. How it's used has to be approved of.

It's actually a genius way to incorporate it, anyway. Stuff like lore only makes the game more interesting. It already breaks lore countless times over, but having it once in a while is actually pretty cool. Hell, it's pretty rare when lore isn't broken anyway. XD

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I have a question: when did those awful campaigns to bully characters that didn't get in first take off? I started eyeballing online Smash discussion around Smash 4's Greninja reveal, and one of the first things I remember people doing were heated arguments around the "deconfirmation" of Mewtwo. But this idea has lingered to the present day and has technically devolved into a much more egregiously toxic field. Looking back, it's one of the worst aspects of Smash, and it makes me ashamed to have indulged it at all. But again, how long has this been the case? Has it always been a problem, or is it something that started around at least the Brawl era?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Speaking as someone who has partaken in dunkposting - and gone way too far with it - in the past, dunkposting only exists because of the way Smash uses fandom validation. "This is the big moment, this is a celebration of the things you love, you are on a pedestal today" that big moment becomes sacred, something to protect should you acquire, and forbid from those you feel may have wronged you.

Imagine if not everyone had a birthday every year, it is obvious that those with birthdays vs. those without would grow very heated because of the sheer emotional significance and extravagence we as a culture - valid or not - assign to birthdays. People would inevitably make up BS patterns as to who gets a birthday and damn the clouds whenever someone they hate gets to age successfully. Validation is a feeling that should be inate to any fandom and not have to be earned, just as comfort in yourself should be inate and not tied to an RNG birthday.

I'd argue that the way Smash fandom is, is the logical endpoint of a fandom that is trained to consider marketing to be part of the product. Advertising is inherently manipulative; combatative; and self-aggrandising, it is no wonder that the fandom turned out this way.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

If you asked me, I think excessive debating defeats the purpose of the unpopular opinion thread. A opinion is well, an opinion. It doesn't necessarily warrant a chain reaction. You agree (Like) or disagree and leave it alone. Lately I have been noticing this thread is becoming like a family tree of reactions that drag on the opinion more than anything that might not even be well, unpopular. The og thread was locked due to excessive replies.

Dragging a debate on and being hostile over each other's opinions is one thing. Any discussions that take place in this thread definitely need to start being more civil again.

But I also don't think having a thread dedicated to sharing unpopular opinions should make those opinions exempt from criticism. More so when some opinions shared here have are based at least partly off of flat out wrong information, whether the one posting knows it or is genuinely unaware of it.

Giving constructive criticism is good. So is being able to share any personal issues or frustrations you have with the series, or being able to share characters and ideas you want that not a lot of people like or talk about.

What's not good is not being able to challenge those opinions at all, or not being able to correct any false information that gets shared.

Being able to challenge opinions is just as important as being able to share them. Both are arguably reasons why this thread is important as well. To both share more unpopular opinions about the Smash series, as well as to challenge more popular ones. Yeah, we really don't need to turn every topic here into an excessive debate, and it could certainly do to have less hostile arguments (not to mention far less personal attacks), but I feel like sometimes, having a debate or at least a counter argument here is necessary.

 

[Lenidem]

Speaking as someone who has partaken in dunkposting - and gone way too far with it - in the past, dunkposting only exists because of the way Smash uses fandom validation. "This is the big moment, this is a celebration of the things you love, you are on a pedestal today" that big moment becomes sacred, something to protect should you acquire, and forbid from those you feel may have wronged you.

Imagine if not everyone had a birthday every year, it is obvious that those with birthdays vs. those without would grow very heated because of the sheer emotional significance and extravagence we as a culture - valid or not - assign to birthdays. People would inevitably make up BS patterns as to who gets a birthday and damn the clouds whenever someone they hate gets to age successfully. Validation is a feeling that should be inate to any fandom and not have to be earned, just as comfort in yourself should be inate and not tied to an RNG birthday.

I'd argue that the way Smash fandom is, is the logical endpoint of a fandom that is trained to consider marketing to be part of the product. Advertising is inherently manipulative; combatative; and self-aggrandising, it is no wonder that the fandom turned out this way.

I do agree to some extent.

It's true that for some fans, it seems that "the reveal" and the "speculation" is the most important part of Smash, to the point that I wonder if they actually want to play the game. However, although I have no way to check if it's true, I do believe that these are a vocal minority. I think that most fans are happy that their favorite character is in the game, so that they can play said character and make him fight against other characters they like, so the reveal in itself is not nearly as important as the game himself.

Like, after a big election, everybody wants to know who is elected, and some people would obviously be in a good mood that night if they learn that the candidate they voted for is the winner, but what really matters is the aftermath.

Confession time: I like to play as Banjo & Kazooie in Peach's Castle or Rainbow Road and pretend that I found a way to unlock them is Super Mario 64...

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I have a question: when did those awful campaigns to bully characters that didn't get in first take off? I started eyeballing online Smash discussion around Smash 4's Greninja reveal, and one of the first things I remember people doing were heated arguments around the "deconfirmation" of Mewtwo. But this idea has lingered to the present day and has technically devolved into a much more egregiously toxic field. Looking back, it's one of the worst aspects of Smash, and it makes me ashamed to have indulged it at all. But again, how long has this been the case? Has it always been a problem, or is it something that started around at least the Brawl era?

Going with the back and forth we had with Wario Wario Wario , but the general consessus is that pre-release Brawl era kicked it off most due Sakurai making tongue-in-cheek statements in some of his regarding how some characters just can't join the fight no matter how much he - or "you", want them to (Waluigi) - how cool it would be to see some of them playable in his mind. (Saki Amamiya and Gray Fox)

I think fanart and fan animations following it cemented it all the more - look no further than AwkwardZombie's Smash Mansion comics or Brawl Taunts-vids that ran during such time. But with amount of requests growing between Brawl to SSB4, this phenomenon would become even more pronounced starting somewhere around Rosalina reducing Daisy to a memetic loser princess next to her and Peach - and then with Mewtwo later as Greninja's having his waters powered by his tears as he made it in.

And last but not least, we can't possibly forget a certain big pterodactyl in the room before Ultimate came along.

During this time, Sakurai still continued writing or even promoting these humorous (YMMV) statements when bringing up Waluigi (again) and revealing Chrom's NPC status (if Palutena Guidance is to go by).
The latter certainly soured me more over and over as one of my favorite lords at the time would come to be more referred by how much of a pile of easy laughs he was, which unfortunately hit too close to home regarding "socially awkward man funny"-phenomenom I've experienced personally. Ugh.

I guess what's worth is that most chars I mentioned above sans Waluigi, got redeemed by the time Ultimate's base roster came to be fully revealed, But it sure can take a while, during which a character's general fame outside of core fans will be kinda reduced to "that one memetic loser who didn't make it to Smash" quite a while. Some chars still suffers from this unless some major game featuring them comes along to kinda make people forget about Smash for a while regarding them, like was such a case with Geno.

Speaking as someone who has partaken in dunkposting - and gone way too far with it - in the past, dunkposting only exists because of the way Smash uses fandom validation. "This is the big moment, this is a celebration of the things you love, you are on a pedestal today" that big moment becomes sacred, something to protect should you acquire, and forbid from those you feel may have wronged you.

Imagine if not everyone had a birthday every year, it is obvious that those with birthdays vs. those without would grow very heated because of the sheer emotional significance and extravagence we as a culture - valid or not - assign to birthdays. People would inevitably make up BS patterns as to who gets a birthday and damn the clouds whenever someone they hate gets to age successfully. Validation is a feeling that should be inate to any fandom and not have to be earned, just as comfort in yourself should be inate and not tied to an RNG birthday.

I'd argue that the way Smash fandom is, is the logical endpoint of a fandom that is trained to consider marketing to be part of the product. Advertising is inherently manipulative; combatative; and self-aggrandising, it is no wonder that the fandom turned out this way.

I'd also argue that the way the fandom comes to celebrate and love any character making it to Smash and making all sorts of content for them might play a part to it - as I guess, one could call those the perhaps never-ending stream of birthday gifts on their way. It does certainly incredible wonders on characters that none ever bothered even thinking before Smash seemed to give them entire life and personality ( )

In the end, having your wanted character in Smash is like getting to see them enjoy a birthday practically everyday in a level that most young celebrities get to. And most likely to many supporters of lesser-known heroes of Nintendo or side characters from main IPs long forgotten, a new lease in life that might be close to immortalization.

Probably hyperbolic words with that last paragraph, but I kinda feel that'd explain the often high-going feelings this fandom tends to go through... since I prescribed myself on such majorly back in SSB4's speculation era.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

And most likely to many supporters of lesser-known heroes of Nintendo or side characters from main IPs long forgotten, a new lease in life that might be close to immortalization.

See, I understand this perspective, and I'd argue it's a perspective I actually do see through to an extent, even if Smash continues its downwards spiral and a character like Jill doesn't gel with me functionally, it'd at least be nice to get a constant stream of fan content, a smattering of professionally-made content, and renewed interest in the original game - but I also find it to be a be a bit of an ineffective band-aid solution and loathe the idea of Smash being a substitute for a new game, even if there is an attention advantage over a new game or remake. Yes, a new Drill Dozer cannot happen under Nintendo, Smash content is the best it gets, because the first one flopped, but uhh... you guys know my opinion on copyrights and such. I can't help but think Jill, as a gentleman(uh, woman... uh, girl) thief, would think the same, haha.

 

[PlasmaDam]

I think smash representation of third parties and first party are solid imo.I think smash being third party the game would suck but on the other hand I would also Miss the cool third parties like Sonic,Joker,Ryu,Cloud,Kazuya,Hero if it become just first party.

Also while I think ult dlc may have been lopsided I think it makes sense.Game developers want to save the chracthers that would make people buy season pass just for them.And those chracthers usually are third parties.Not to say that there aren't any Hype first parties but I don't think I would see people Raving in the streets if bandana waddle dee was dlc

Also i just did the math there are 18 third parties and 89 chracthers overall in ult aside from dlc speculation I don't get the too many third parties complaint

 

[fogbadge]

Also i just did the math there are 18 third parties and 89 chracthers overall in ult aside from dlc speculation I don't get the too many third parties complaint

try not to double post

 

[PlasmaDam]

My Bad I was on a train while I posted that so it must have double posted

 

[fogbadge]

My Bad I was on a train while I posted that so it must have double posted

It’s supposed to be users aren’t allowed to post twice in a row in a thread not just accidentally posting the same thing twice. Which isn’t what you did btw

 

[PlasmaDam]

It’s supposed to be users aren’t allowed to post twice in a row in a thread not just accidentally posting the same thing twice. Which isn’t what you did btw

oh I did not know that oops

 

[SharkLord]

Kirby not being allowed to use a keyblade because of KH lore is one of the stupidest things ever. In general I think a lot of the "love and passion" put into respecting all aspects of a source material ends up counter-intuitive even on a cosmetic level, and I'd much prefer if Smash took the Fortnite mismatch approach.

Mind you, that was because of Nomura, who writes everything Kingdom Hearts and will inevitably have some dos and don'ts for his stuff. Heck, Sakurai's also admitted he wanted Mario to hold the Keyblade in Sora's reveal trailer, but Nomura asked him not to. Not much Sakurai could do there, both for the sake of negotiations and just out of respect for KH's creator.

Dragging a debate on and being hostile over each other's opinions is one thing. Any discussions that take place in this thread definitely need to start being more civil again.

But I also don't think having a thread dedicated to sharing unpopular opinions should make those opinions exempt from criticism. More so when some opinions shared here have are based at least partly off of flat out wrong information, whether the one posting knows it or is genuinely unaware of it.

Giving constructive criticism is good. So is being able to share any personal issues or frustrations you have with the series, or being able to share characters and ideas you want that not a lot of people like or talk about.

What's not good is not being able to challenge those opinions at all, or not being able to correct any false information that gets shared.

Being able to challenge opinions is just as important as being able to share them. Both are arguably reasons why this thread is important as well. To both share more unpopular opinions about the Smash series, as well as to challenge more popular ones. Yeah, we really don't need to turn every topic here into an excessive debate, and it could certainly do to have less hostile arguments and (not to mention far less personal attacks), but I feel like sometimes, having a debate or at least a counter argument here is necessary.

Yeah, this is important to remember. Sometimes debates can start dragging on or become hostile, but people will inevitably have opinions regarding your opinions. The mere act of disagreeing and debating with someone doesn't make that argument "slop" or worthless.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

New opinion.

I think that Shulk's moveset is largely fine. Yeah a lot of people critique it for being made up, but I appreciate the unique spin they gave him. Changing stats like that is super cool

 

[fogbadge]

New opinion.

I think that Shulk's moveset is largely fine. Yeah a lot of people critique it for being made up, but I appreciate the unique spin they gave him. Changing stats like that is super cool

I didn't know it was considered a problem

 

[TheZizz]

Hmm, that made me think on how we could do with more character skins to buy over Mii Costumes even in general. Would let me finally see most of Pikmin's ensemble across the series, not just Alph. (I wanna play as Charlie and Loiue, dammit)

Yea, multiple alternate costumes per character seems like a foregone conclusion. Why the concept of a single one per character gets panned, and not this? Maybe it's a branding issue

 

[Thegameandwatch]

New opinion.

I think that Shulk's moveset is largely fine. Yeah a lot of people critique it for being made up, but I appreciate the unique spin they gave him. Changing stats like that is super cool

With a few exceptions like Little Mac, Smash 4 did a good job with the movesets even if some are different from the source material.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I don't even know if this is necessarily an unpopular opinion, but it's tangentially related enough to Smash that I'm willing to test the waters.

The Poker Night games are the optimal way of handling a crossover event. "What are Brock Samson, Claptrap, Ash Williams, and Sam & Max like off the clock" is a far more entertaining hook to me than "what if Solid Snake, Ganondorf, Sephiroth, and Jigglypuff got in a fight" as it demonstrates an innate level of reverence for the source material and creativity in finding the common ground between four comically disparate characters to write dialogue around. "Wouldn't it be funny" is invariably part of the appeal for both, but the former plays into it so much more. There's a reason dialogue compilations from both Poker Nights garner millions of views; they're just that good and capture the spirit of the characters and their series better than any highfalutin reveal trailer can. Compare to something more cinematic and hype-driven like Smash where it feels these characters are meeting up in spite of each other (despite being more similar) to the point that they're juxtaposed as toys, mere animated facsimiles of themselves. Actual character interactions are limited to trailers and the odd Palutena's Guidance, and those are slim pickings at that. Hell, people love Subspace for the interactions, and that didn't even have any dialogue. If you're gonna sell a crossover as character-driven, take pride in the interactions more than the spectacle of having a bunch of characters in one place. Multiversus at least tried to do this, for what it's worth, though I still think a casual environment like a poker table is a significantly better setup for that sort of thing than a brawl where each character says maybe one meaningful line at the beginning and/or end of a match.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'd rather go out drinking with Shulk, Wario, Mewtwo, and King Dedede than have a street fight with them, and if that makes me weird, good.

 

[Perkilator]

I guess to keep things on-topic…Smash fans shouldn’t be so afraid of change. Lots of aspects of Smash (mainly in the veterans who’ve been around for a long time) have felt more and more dated with time, and this desire to maintain the status quo is only going to make it feel moreso. It’s one thing to not want to change so much that it alienates longtime fans, but it’s a while other thing to want everything to stay the same forever.

Basically, all this is to say that I want the next Smash game to be a renewal of old ideas. Updating the veterans who feel dated should be chief among those renewals.

 

[SharkLord]

New opinion.

I think that Shulk's moveset is largely fine. Yeah a lot of people critique it for being made up, but I appreciate the unique spin they gave him. Changing stats like that is super cool

I just think it's funny that Shulk actually does have buff-type moves in Monado Armour and Monado Enchant, but Sakurai specifically decided to change the function of other moves or make up new moves entirely

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I don't even know if this is necessarily an unpopular opinion, but it's tangentially related enough to Smash that I'm willing to test the waters.

The Poker Night games are the optimal way of handling a crossover event. "What are Brock Samson, Claptrap, Ash Williams, and Sam & Max like off the clock" is a far more entertaining hook to me than "what if Solid Snake, Ganondorf, Sephiroth, and Jigglypuff got in a fight" as it demonstrates an innate level of reverence for the source material and creativity in finding the common ground between four comically disparate characters to write dialogue around. "Wouldn't it be funny" is invariably part of the appeal for both, but the former plays into it so much more. There's a reason dialogue compilations from both Poker Nights garner millions of views; they're just that good and capture the spirit of the characters and their series better than any highfalutin reveal trailer can. Compare to something more cinematic and hype-driven like Smash where it feels these characters are meeting up in spite of each other (despite being more similar) to the point that they're juxtaposed as toys, mere animated facsimiles of themselves. Actual character interactions are limited to trailers and the odd Palutena's Guidance, and those are slim pickings at that. Hell, people love Subspace for the interactions, and that didn't even have any dialogue. If you're gonna sell a crossover as character-driven, take pride in the interactions more than the spectacle of having a bunch of characters in one place. Multiversus at least tried to do this, for what it's worth, though I still think a casual environment like a poker table is a significantly better setup for that sort of thing than a brawl where each character says maybe one meaningful line at the beginning and/or end of a match.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'd rather go out drinking with Shulk, Wario, Mewtwo, and King Dedede than have a street fight with them, and if that makes me weird, good.

I really do dislike that Smash's CGI stuff doesn't really bother showing these characters being well... bros much. Kirby dancing with a Luma or the NES gang wanting to reunite with Duck Hunt is very endearing. Some Big Powerful New Guy popping up and beating up all the Old Guys is just dull and dire. I understand that you can't really make a happy-go-lucky trailer for Sephiroth, but maybe have an entire team try to take him down instead of only Cloud being on his level? I dunno. There was no reason to try and make BOWSER JR. of all characters look imposing.

Subspace is especially bad about that, there's basically no allusion as to what these characters do outside of combat, or even many environments fit for human living, I dunno how I'm really supposed to give a **** about these characters when I have no basis for their regular life considering their obviously detached source material (and the dojo flavor text just adds more questions and less reasons to care), or how these normal-ass human character designs could come to exist in what is clearly a high fantasy world. World of Light has no cutscenes and manages to do world building better just on virtue of... showing a city once.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I guess to keep things on-topic…Smash fans shouldn’t be so afraid of change. Lots of aspects of Smash (mainly in the veterans who’ve been around for a long time) have felt more and more dated with time, and this desire to maintain the status quo is only going to make it feel moreso. It’s one thing to not want to change so much that it alienates longtime fans, but it’s a while other thing to want everything to stay the same forever.

Basically, all this is to say that I want the next Smash game to be a renewal of old ideas. Updating the veterans who feel dated should be chief among those renewals.

It's kind of ironic really as the one most opposed to much change might be Sakurai himself, especially regarding very highly demanded major character reworks to and . All the more on why I want someone else to take over his seat to help bring new blood and fresh takes on Smash's current model and gradually dated elements.

I don't even know if this is necessarily an unpopular opinion, but it's tangentially related enough to Smash that I'm willing to test the waters.

The Poker Night games are the optimal way of handling a crossover event. "What are Brock Samson, Claptrap, Ash Williams, and Sam & Max like off the clock" is a far more entertaining hook to me than "what if Solid Snake, Ganondorf, Sephiroth, and Jigglypuff got in a fight" as it demonstrates an innate level of reverence for the source material and creativity in finding the common ground between four comically disparate characters to write dialogue around. "Wouldn't it be funny" is invariably part of the appeal for both, but the former plays into it so much more. There's a reason dialogue compilations from both Poker Nights garner millions of views; they're just that good and capture the spirit of the characters and their series better than any highfalutin reveal trailer can. Compare to something more cinematic and hype-driven like Smash where it feels these characters are meeting up in spite of each other (despite being more similar) to the point that they're juxtaposed as toys, mere animated facsimiles of themselves. Actual character interactions are limited to trailers and the odd Palutena's Guidance, and those are slim pickings at that. Hell, people love Subspace for the interactions, and that didn't even have any dialogue. If you're gonna sell a crossover as character-driven, take pride in the interactions more than the spectacle of having a bunch of characters in one place. Multiversus at least tried to do this, for what it's worth, though I still think a casual environment like a poker table is a significantly better setup for that sort of thing than a brawl where each character says maybe one meaningful line at the beginning and/or end of a match.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'd rather go out drinking with Shulk, Wario, Mewtwo, and King Dedede than have a street fight with them, and if that makes me weird, good.

I'm easily hunching this to be due how just lofty and convoluted it's become to explore dynamics between almost HUNDRED characters today - especially for just one director as Sakurai's the one also deciding how ALL of the characters need to be portrayed like, right down to each one of their animations and like.

But a more bigger reason why this hasn't ended necessary is how this lack of proper character interaction gets ultimately filled by the fans, whether through fanart, fanfics and so on. Especially fanart which like to pair characters together often by their similarities, prior shared history... or in Ultimate's case most often, by how close they are on the character mural.

Like, that's just not how the whole "Sephiroth has adopted Pichu as his pet" came to be such a popular thing in Ultimate's fandom - but it seems Sakurai even acknowledged it:

Spoiler

Also something about Ren Amamiya being a son of Bayonetta (which by Bayonetta 3 ending's standards, looks even dumber now.)

I'm lowkey reminded of this modern phenomenon where people can band together to create insane amounts of pretty dope fan content and art for Twilight x Mordecai-levels of often kind of non-sensical pairings based on random thoughts or details - and sorta push in these fanons as widely agreed to a point of non-questionability. Like I wouldn't be surprised that anyone trying to question the pair-up above would prolly get you to not think that much about it, or get explained in uttermost finest detail on "why the pairing does actually make sense."

I really do dislike that Smash's CGI stuff doesn't really bother showing these characters being well... bros much. Kirby dancing with a Luma or the NES gang wanting to reunite with Duck Hunt is very endearing. Some Big Powerful New Guy popping up and beating up all the Old Guys is just dull and dire. I understand that you can't really make a happy-go-lucky trailer for Sephiroth, but maybe have an entire team try to take him down instead of only Cloud being on his level? I dunno. There was no reason to try and make BOWSER JR. of all characters look imposing.

I guess the answer's kinda already laid there: it's for sake of hyping up the character and showcasing them best way they can be for people getting to see them in Smash, whether existing fans of such character or anyone who hasn't had much interest on them before.

Just look at all the Meet The Team-trailers for Team Fortress 2, which kinda might not feel even close to how characters actually play today - but one can't deny them still showcasing these characters at their most coolest. That's what Smash clearly does very well with their own trailers.

Subspace is especially bad about that, there's basically no allusion as to what these characters do outside of combat, or even many environments fit for human living, I dunno how I'm really supposed to give a **** about these characters when I have no basis for their regular life considering their obviously detached source material (and the dojo flavor text just adds more questions and less reasons to care), or how these normal-ass human character designs could come to exist in what is clearly a high fantasy world. World of Light has no cutscenes and manages to do world building better just on virtue of... showing a city once.

Once again I guess it's merely due having to juggle so many universes together, and the whole "they all happen to be trophies in some kind of made-up world" made the job of world-building not as lofty as a result.

Even then I guess after how SSE's cutscenes being easily available led to Sakurai swear off any new adventure modes using them and reserving the animated bits on the trailers where people get to see them the first time, and recount their feelings as they view them later on their own time. World of Light having very little cutscenes most likely was done for that reason - and I could easily see with how there's been ludicrously more characters than in Brawl would have posed probably nigh impossbility to attempt this even close to well enough.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

New opinion.

I think that Shulk's moveset is largely fine. Yeah a lot of people critique it for being made up, but I appreciate the unique spin they gave him. Changing stats like that is super cool

Honestly my issue with the Arts is mostly Buster. As SharkLord said, it's a reskinned Enchant and while I can kinda ignore that for Shield as Monado Armour is I believe entirely optional and the term 'shield' is at least more understandable. Buster though is a big **** off sword swing and like. Come on, the final smash should have at least had Shulk send that beam of light crashing down while yelling Buster at the end

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

When it comes to Ganondorf, I moreso see "Ganondorf (Super Smash Bros.)" and "Ganondorf (The Legend of Zelda)" as different characters, a reinterpretation of the source material, and that's kinda neat. I think if Ganondorf was to get a rework, he should stay a bruiser, just a different type. I don't think reworks should exist to eliminate original reinterpretation or "dated" elements (because let's be frank, all of those "updates" will eventually be dated too, and Nintendo tends to be better at distributing older games than recent-but-not-new games), they should solely exist for gameplay benefit. I think that there are some reinterpretations in Smash I'd prefer the original take on, but those are all characterisation and could just as easily be replaced with another reinterpretation instead of "the" original interpretation, and when it comes to moveset, I think unfaithful movesets are... kinda just one-dimensionally, inately better. Maybe it's a coincidence or faithful movesets are just part of a wider shift in mentality that makes them appear connected to other woes, I dunno.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I guess to keep things on-topic…Smash fans shouldn’t be so afraid of change. Lots of aspects of Smash (mainly in the veterans who’ve been around for a long time) have felt more and more dated with time, and this desire to maintain the status quo is only going to make it feel moreso. It’s one thing to not want to change so much that it alienates longtime fans, but it’s a while other thing to want everything to stay the same forever.

Basically, all this is to say that I want the next Smash game to be a renewal of old ideas. Updating the veterans who feel dated should be chief among those renewals.

The Smash fandom is literally Moebius from Xenoblade 3 and I think that’s funny.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The Smash fandom is literally Moebius from Xenoblade 3 and I think that’s funny.

Looked up those character's motives quick and...

really? I see WAY more "New inherently = good" in Smash fandom. The bizarre dissdain for Melee and 64, and their fans, is the big example of this, but like, pro-moveset reworks is clearly the majority opinion; criticism of more recently-developed Smash staples like trailers and third parties tend not to be taken seriously; bandwagoning behind a shiny new character and then throwing them away once their game is old has been a habit for as long as speculation has existed (zoroark text); and a lot of Smash fans are completely apathetic towards any content from the 80s or earlier, or even the earlier half of the 90s.