*UPDATED* Sonic Stage/Counterpick Discussion *Discuss PS1 + New BF Rewrite*

[Kinzer]

GHZ is usually a banned stage.

We should get rid of the ones that are a guaranteed legal neutral/ netraul/CP / CP stage first.

 

[Camalange]

Exactly.

Green Hill Zone will go under extra :O

 

[memphischains]

i take back everything bad i said about corneria.

corneria is sonic's best stage. hands down.

 

[~TBS~]

?
its a GOOD stage, but how is it his best stage? low ceiling? Memphis can you give more details?
and I thought we were discussing PS?

 

[Camalange]

Corneria is an even better stage during team matches...no lie.

@SM5 - You should read my write up on why it's so good :o

I should be updating this soon...maaybe...

I've been personally trying to get better by practicing , heading out to tournaments, and partcipating in more important threads so...that's why I kinda been pushing my own to the side.

 

[Kinzer]

It's the same story with me Camal.

Anyway Speed Memphis is right, Corneria has low blastzones, which takes care of Sonic's killing problems.

BTW we were actually talking about Weegee's, but Memphis kind derailed it and Camal didn't update the title... yet.

 

[aeghrur]

Bump, because this is an amazing thread that needs UPDATING.
And... what stage are we on again?

 

[Camalange]

Hm, so people actually like my thread? lol, I was gonna try and let it die, but if you insist XD

Alright, I think we got done discussing PS1 so we'll go on to Weegee's Mansion.

GO GO GO!

 

[Kinzer]

Cam unlike my thread, this one actually helps other people in a frequent tourney set.

Because Singles count more than doubles, and of course the next thing that matters most about a character, is the stage.

...I'll say for now that on Weegee's, you have a helluva lot jab-lock opportunities, and you have a higher chance of falling for it.

This place out to teach you to learn to tech, and if you're not going to do that you're better off taking down the mansion.

 

[Jim Morrison]

U-tilt to jab lock if they don't tech. Use tilts much more here, especially at higher levels. D-tilt, knock em up to top, jab, force getup, SONIC PUNCH

Also has high ceiling.
When stage is broken, it's FD, but don't break it, it's better like this. Stay on the 2nd level if you dont want to get locked. Also, his an FD like lip, except we can't walljump it.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Sigh.

I'm sick of how overhyped upthrow > jab lock is. It's really easy to avoid.

The best option after upthrow is up-smash.

They tech, they eat up-smash.

They dont tech, and they also eat upsmash.

It's a true combo.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Does U-smash lead into jab lawck?

 

[Kinzer]

Cat didn't specify it was suppose to.

I suppose that he was just saying that USmash is pretty good here.

 

[thecatinthehat]

no it doesnt lead to it.

The thing is, jab lock is so expected, that's all together way to easy to avoid.

up-smash is the best option.

 

[Camalange]

no it doesnt lead to it.

The thing is, jab lock is so expected, that's all together way to easy to avoid.

up-smash is the best option.

Agreed.

I've tried going for the jab lock, but if they don't tech, they just DI/SDI away and I either...

A) Miss
B) Get 2 jabs

>_>

Jab locks are kind of a joke.

 

[Chis]

If you want to live when at a high %, leave the mansion intact and stick to the bottom right/left of the stage so that you can tech the walls. Not the middle bit. Disjointed attacks will reach you if you're on the above platform and the stage has a high ceiling. It's harder for Sonic to navigate, especial against projectiles, so I would say destroy the mansion. Remember the the support beams are destroyable objects, so you can refresh you other moves by staling a useless move on it (Nair). You can do this infinitely on the bottom beams if the top ones are still intact since it wont break.

Edit: Also, projectiles get canceled by the support beams. And Uair is a good choice if they are on a platform above you. Especially if you''re on ground floor, keep them at bay from the 'main' area. Since it would be hard to attack you with unless the come through the middle or pass the support beams.
---_________---
__l-------------l____ Area

2/5

 

[Kinzer]

You know, this kinda needed a bump anyway.

So Camal, i herd ja liek REFERENCES!

Well use this for Pictochat, it's pretty BA and I don't know why I didn't notice this before.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161397

 

[Chis]

Since the last topic on this confused a lot of people with the original post seeming too official with the list of "stage bans" and such posted, I feel it's a better idea to remake a new and fresh one so that people won't think that the posted list's are official, because at this point in time, there is no official stage legality lists. Nothing's been banned as yet (though there's a few that are pretty safe to assume, looking at you Hyrule, Poky, Warioware) and as soon as something is decided on, a new topic will be posted with the Smash Back Room's list.

Until then, please discus away here on what you think could be neutral, counterpick or banned. And above all, keep an open mind.

Counter
Green Hill Zone

Can we move on to Green hill zone?

 

[Kinzer]

Why do I get the feeling the false SBR is going to get Green Hill banned as soon as they release the new ruleset...?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Barely any tourney allows it. We're better off going for PS2/Castle Siege now. Nice bump Chis, this isn't finished yet.
Or we should go Norfair, it's kind of a odd level which needs discussion.

 

[Kinzer]

I hate Norfair, it's almost as Gay as Japes, but I'm not going to go into detail without Camal's go.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic gets ***** by Link on Norfair, that's all I know.

I'd like to hold of on GHZ, mostly because no tournies allow it as a cp >_>

Should we do Norfair?

 

[Kinzer]

Until it gets banned, we have to.

It's still at least 3 months away from June or whenever the False SBR decides to release the new ruleset, so until then, we're stuck with this stage, which yeah like I said before is almost as bad as Japes... Almost.

Besides that, it's more CP worthy than GHZ for the moment, so we might as well.

...So this is my 5,500th post, eh?

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

is Norfair really that bad?
i haven't really did bad on that stage
unless its the annoying lava you're referring to

 

[Kinzer]

Just try fighting Meta Knight on that stage.

You'll find an even hotter burning hatred for not only him, but a newfound anger towards the stage and how gay it makes it to try an attack MK/anything.

The stage is constantly being disturbed, so not only must you focus on you, your opponents position, and what how to attack & from where, but you also have to be constantly adapting to your new environment.

Maybe against D3 you would want to go to Norfair, but Sonic has little stable ground to work with, if your not careful you can be easily killed here no thanks to the blastzones being so close to the far left/right platforms. If you're not in the stock/% lead, you're going to have one hell of a time to pursuit your opponent since Sonic is a lot more slow and a lot less maneuverable in the air than he is on the ground, which this stage puts heavy emphasis on.

I suggest you camp the lower three platforms, probbly your best be to take cover from whatever and just "burrow attack" your opponents from where they can't hit you but you can hit them. To play on a Gay stage, you have to play gay.

This is in no way a good stage for Sonic vs anybody but D3. Nobody you can think of loses to Sonic on this stage in any way that can't be dealt with. Most characters have an easier time with aerial combat than Sonic, and no matter how hard you try, you will find at least 35% of your time on this stage above the platforms... This is not good when Sonic has bad maneuverability in the air, and his only saving graces are Bair/Uair and Fair/Nair when being used from below your opponent as an underground assault.

No jablocks, hard K.O. opportunities, only average survivability (a great recovery won't do you any good when you can't possibly getgimped here... Hell, even Link will have teh advantage on you against this stage!), and just overall nothing on this stage for Sonic to abuse while all his weaknesses get thrown out in the wide-open, just learn to play gay on this stage.

I hate this stage so much, I just typed this all up without Camal's thread namechanger thingimajig, and I needed to tell you that/get that off my chest.

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

lol that's some statement to just let out
yea i'll try that out when i can aganist a D3 to see if it's any good for me

 

[iSpiN]

Norfair, I hate you.

The positives is that you can avoid the lava easier, but the platforms will work against you. You can't execute Sonic's running speed and his aerials are crap on the stage except for Uair.

Most Links/TLs/Pikachus/MK's cp this stage on me ALL THE FREAKING TIME.

 

[Camalange]

I might take a Diddy here too.

But then it ends there D:<

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Green Hill Zone doesn't need much discussion. Sonic is BROKEN on that stage!

Hit the checkboxes before anyone else as Sonic. This is easy because your the fastest in the game. Free damage and KO's for Sonic all around. The left and right edges of the stage make Sonic's throws all too easy to KO with. The slopes can be annoying for running approaching but ASC cancels into Fsmash will win the day. This stage is BROKEN! Its so broken that I was able to beat 3 level 9's all teamed up against me as Sonic (with no items as well) by running around, hitting checkboxes and using throws near the edge.

The best feature of this stage is the music, but with the Brawl Music hacks, this isn't an issue. Sonic is too good on GHZ, though I think Green Greens and Bridge of Eldin are better for him.

Oh yes and Sonic's Bair on GHZ? INSANE...

 

[ShadowLink84]

I actually do quite well on Norfair. Maybe its cause mine is blue...

 

[Camalange]

Texture haxzors?

I changed the title to Norfair, so SL, would you like to share your thoughts on this stage in detail?

;o

 

[Jim Morrison]

Norfair has lava which is useful. I never pick this as Sonic, but for Falcon this level is sex.
Sonic just has a lot of room for lagless D-air and Spring. Recovery should no problem. B-air and U-air trough platform is decent. Not bad, not good for Sonic.

 

[darkNES386]

I counterpick Norfair for the following reason:

I want to disrupt my opponent's ability to play defensive. I can force my opponent to move around more here. Zelda and DeDeDe are two characters I consider taking to Norfair. Diddy Kong tends to have a harder time setting up bananas here.

My goal on this stage is always to try and keep my opponent above me. By planting springs and using lots of ASC>shield cancels it's surprisingly easy to do. Of course, if they beat you to it, that's what the lava is for.

 

[Nixernator]

Norfair isn't as bad as I thought it would be.
Gimping is harder admittedly, but it allows for major usage of the disjoint on Uair. Also ASC is easy to do, and works quite well. Lava doesn't really bother Sonic from what I've seen, spring/SC/SDR always let you get out of the way. Also spinshot seems like a good choice here also Bair is good.
Of course then there is the downers of being forced to be in the air a lot and sonic's speed is basically not applicable here. Also running and punishment are a lot harder as more often then not you are not in a real position to punish.
Overall I don't think counterpick cept against diddy or D3 but don't stress if you get it counterpicked against you.

 

[B!squick]

Just don't take Meta Knight here. Not even Bowser does that. x_x

Oh yeah, don't take Bowser here either. >.>

 

[ShadowLink84]

Texture haxzors?

I changed the title to Norfair, so SL, would you like to share your thoughts on this stage in detail?

;o

in comparison to his other stage choices, Norfair isn't among the beneficial ones. Of course it isn't a terrible map for him either.

multiple ledges can also benefit Sonic, while he certainly no longer is amazing at recovery, it also means his options while on the ledge are better as well.

You can also abuse Sonics Uair on this stage due to its incredible disjointedness and killing is of course, much easier. Sonic also avoids the lava extremely easily due to how quick he can get out of athe dangerzone during the fight.

Of course it also means you cannot space as well with Sonic and some characters (like Snake) are an absolute pain to face.

I am not too sure if its a good level of DDD so I will have to try it out sometime.
Its certainly not his worst stage (I would say brinstar) but it is not a positive.
Except for me, I break that rule, i rock on Norfair, cause mine is blue.

 

[Kinzer]

Why would you not want to take Bowser to Norfair? Being able to attack from all 360 degree angles is a bonus for getting around Bowser's infamous "fortress" defense admitingly (sp?) (pun somewhat intended), Plus Bowser isn't as mobile as Sonic is, in the air or in the ground. It would probably be neutral with Sonic & Bowser on the stage, there might be better choices but AFAIK you can't go entirely wrong with taking him to Norfair.

 

[darkNES386]

We should probably finish up discussing Norfair.

I motion for us to discuss PKMN Stadium 2 next.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Pokemon Stadium 2 is the work of the devil.

 

[Browny]

using spring on the wind stage should be banned for stalling

and is it really worth talking about PS2? i mean who in their right mind honestly picks that stage...