Q&A Link's Take Over - Q&A and General Link Discussion

[SAUS]

Sheik is going to be abusing her shield to try to get you to do something laggy. You can throw a boomerang into her shield and it will bounce back to you immediately, ready to be thrown again. If she is being the aggressor, she shouldn't be able to counter a SH retreating boomerang throw. So that is going to be your staple to keeping her out. Jab is also a godlike tool that will stuff her from very far out. If she short hops to try to space on your shield, a turn around up-tilt will deny her cleanly.

As long as you don't let Sheik in with her grabs, you'll be in good shape. Try to throw out safe moves. For some reason, double hit f-smash feels pretty safe on shield (you can spotdodge or roll if she tries to punish it). Maybe I'm wrong though.

Definitely not safe. The first hit to second hit allows for a nice mixup (a frame trap, really) since there are only 5 actionable frames between the hits for your opponent (only enough to roll, spot dodge, or jump), but Shiek can definitely wavedash out and punish you if you use the second hit. It has -28 frame advantage. Wavedash grab takes 21 frames. If you use the first hit and then just do nothing, you can sometimes get away, but overall it is risky.

Against Shiek, I recommend using platforms a lot - not necessarily camping them, but just as a way to move around. It forces a lot more fighting in the air where Link is very strong. Shiek's aerials also lose badly to crouch cancel, so it is an overall good way to play. Don't go in too hard against Shiek since you don't really have to and Shiek has a pretty hard time going in against Link.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hm yes I figured there was a window of a bout 7 frames or so for them to punish with a grab.

 

[Thor]

Definitely not safe. The first hit to second hit allows for a nice mixup (a frame trap, really) since there are only 5 actionable frames between the hits for your opponent (only enough to roll, spot dodge, or jump), but Shiek can definitely wavedash out and punish you if you use the second hit. It has -28 frame advantage. Wavedash grab takes 21 frames. If you use the first hit and then just do nothing, you can sometimes get away, but overall it is risky.

Against Shiek, I recommend using platforms a lot - not necessarily camping them, but just as a way to move around. It forces a lot more fighting in the air where Link is very strong. Shiek's aerials also lose badly to crouch cancel, so it is an overall good way to play. Don't go in too hard against Shiek since you don't really have to and Shiek has a pretty hard time going in against Link.

Sheik's wavedash is quite short, but Sheik CAN wavedash dash in and grab and still net the grab. However, I sincerely doubt one wavedash should be sufficient to put Sheik in grab range, meaning the window is marginally tighter. And not only are Sheik mains usually inexperienced in the MU [not the ones you play SAUS, but in general], but they have to be able to exit shield very quickly. It's still obviously risky, and I wouldn't recommend second hit fsmash [and if I were playing Sheik, I'd wavedash out boost grab it], but I think there are times it's useful, since it can check people's OoS options with a killing move [if you know they'll attempt to punish first swing]. You can also push her off platforms, and although I'm guessing she could probably punish, it would seem unlikely that she could punish with a grab [double jump waveland into boost grab???].

Also, I don't know if it's possible in Melee, but in PM, if you hold A while pulling a bomb, you can c-stick an fsmash with a bomb in hand. If this works in Melee [would need to test it], you have a quite cute trick - if you double fsmash her shield, EVEN if she gets the grab, you have a bomb in hand, meaning she won't be able to CG you for long [if at all]. Meanwhile many won't expect the fsmash in the first place, and even if they do, you have the added mixup of not doing the second swing, but being harder to punish when you do swing.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I doubt that PM trick works in Melee.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

You know, there have been times where I play vs a Peach and I get rekt both as Falcon and Ganon, so maybe for ****s and giggles and to troll the Peach I'll play as Link vs her next time? I can projectile spam the crap out of her and overall make her life pretty miserable.

 

[SAUS]

You know, there have been times where I play vs a Peach and I get rekt both as Falcon and Ganon, so maybe for ****s and giggles and to troll the Peach I'll play as Link vs her next time? I can projectile spam the crap out of her and overall make her life pretty miserable.

How does the Peach player play? Peach can be quite a scary matchup if they play aggressive. Without a solid tool against CC, you have to be very careful how you fight against her.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

How does the Peach player play? Peach can be quite a scary matchup if they play aggressive. Without a solid tool against CC, you have to be very careful how you fight against her.

This would probably be for more basic Peaches that only know simple things with Peach like pulling a turnip and downsmash spam. A lot of the time I've played people in friendlies and in tournament and they are able to get away with this, but I feel like Link negates a lot of that stuff, and it's a more fun matchup for me to play anyway.

I would probably play Link more against Defensive Peaches though at a higher level, but then probably my Falcon will be able to do well enough against the Peach to where the Link idea might be obsolete, but I'm certainly willing to give it a try.

 

[Team Plasma N]

Also, I don't know if it's possible in Melee, but in PM, if you hold A while pulling a bomb, you can c-stick an fsmash with a bomb in hand. If this works in Melee [would need to test it]

I just tried this in both PM (to make sure I'm doing it right) and in Melee, I can confirm it doesn't work in Melee.

 

[Thor]

So... was disappointed to learn today that Link's platform cancelled nairs ARE shieldgrabbable... nair is -1, platform cancel does have optimal timing but the platform drop takes 3 frames + 4 frames for nair to come out = 8 frames actionability. Now, can vs will is a huge distinction [that is, I would NEVER expect someone to grab this, given that people have no reason to practice grabbing this sort of thing, and it's still very frame-tight to grab], but it's worth noting that it's technically grabbable (my apologies to anyone I told otherwise... ). [NOTE: It MAY be possible that it's not grabbable if the opponent has an awful vertical grabbox, but I can't test that.]

I may deposit some recent videos in the Link video thread later [I took 2nd at an event... was disappointed to have lost after coming so close], but those still have to uploaded to Youtube instead of twitch. There's actually several and I'm sure plenty of advice to be given from y'all/received by me in those sets since I now probably have over 10 on twitch/youtube combined, and against a variety of characters, but I dunno if people are interested in looking through that stuff.

SAUS I'd be interested in hearing anti-Fox advice specifically on FD and PS [or in general, but especially those stages]... I'm to the point where I'm considering just doing Fox dittos on those stages [although I never made an honest attempt to main Fox, my shine spikes are far above my Fox skill level, and I've taken games off people who are definitely better overall Fox mains than I, including the guy who beat me to take first]. If the set gets uploaded I can link it [or I can just link the twitch video if you don't mind] for specific Fox advice [I lost 3-2 in WF and 3-0 in grands, although game 3 I tried Marth out on FD since I SD'd game 2 going for a surefire gimp, and at that point decided I might just need to try something else... admittedly a decision I regret, but it's all in the video (and you can of course not watch that game)].

For what's it worth, in the Fox MU I feel BF, FoD, and Yoshi's are all roughly the same, in that they're better than DL and much better than PS or FD [I'm not sure which of the 3 is best, but I'm confident they're all better than the other 3, although by all means tell me otherwise], and in bo5 I know I have to fight on both PS and FD unless I win 3-0 or 3-1 and they stick to only one as their CP.

 

[SAUS]

So... was disappointed to learn today that Link's platform cancelled nairs ARE shieldgrabbable... nair is -1, platform cancel does have optimal timing but the platform drop takes 3 frames + 4 frames for nair to come out = 8 frames actionability. Now, can vs will is a huge distinction [that is, I would NEVER expect someone to grab this, given that people have no reason to practice grabbing this sort of thing, and it's still very frame-tight to grab], but it's worth noting that it's technically grabbable (my apologies to anyone I told otherwise... ). [NOTE: It MAY be possible that it's not grabbable if the opponent has an awful vertical grabbox, but I can't test that.]

I may deposit some recent videos in the Link video thread later [I took 2nd at an event... was disappointed to have lost after coming so close], but those still have to uploaded to Youtube instead of twitch. There's actually several and I'm sure plenty of advice to be given from y'all/received by me in those sets since I now probably have over 10 on twitch/youtube combined, and against a variety of characters, but I dunno if people are interested in looking through that stuff.

SAUS I'd be interested in hearing anti-Fox advice specifically on FD and PS [or in general, but especially those stages]... I'm to the point where I'm considering just doing Fox dittos on those stages [although I never made an honest attempt to main Fox, my shine spikes are far above my Fox skill level, and I've taken games off people who are definitely better overall Fox mains than I, including the guy who beat me to take first]. If the set gets uploaded I can link it [or I can just link the twitch video if you don't mind] for specific Fox advice [I lost 3-2 in WF and 3-0 in grands, although game 3 I tried Marth out on FD since I SD'd game 2 going for a surefire gimp, and at that point decided I might just need to try something else... admittedly a decision I regret, but it's all in the video (and you can of course not watch that game)].

For what's it worth, in the Fox MU I feel BF, FoD, and Yoshi's are all roughly the same, in that they're better than DL and much better than PS or FD [I'm not sure which of the 3 is best, but I'm confident they're all better than the other 3, although by all means tell me otherwise], and in bo5 I know I have to fight on both PS and FD unless I win 3-0 or 3-1 and they stick to only one as their CP.

What if you shield drop before the nair? It is faster by 2 frames or something like that.

Anti-fox on FD and stadium is basically make sure your punish game is on point. It's harder for fox to escape your combos on those stages, so you have to make sure you abuse that. Fox punishes I find are easier to mess with because SDI and CC are very strong at certain points.

As a general rule on FD (and stadium, but a little less extreme), it is much worse to jump. Platforms provide an escape option once you are in the air, so you lose those when you don't have any platforms (or just the two, small, low ones on stadium).

I think I can probably give better advice if I see your matches. I do recommend posting videos because it is easiest to see what problems you are having in them.

I've had a good streak against Foxes lately. I've been really nailing the tech chasing, so my punishes have gotten a lot better. I find dreamland is the most awkward stage for me to play on because the top platform is hard to reach and cover. The stage is also just generally too spacious and allows Fox to run around more than I want them to.

 

[Thor]

What if you shield drop before the nair? It is faster by 2 frames or something like that.

Anti-fox on FD and stadium is basically make sure your punish game is on point. It's harder for fox to escape your combos on those stages, so you have to make sure you abuse that. Fox punishes I find are easier to mess with because SDI and CC are very strong at certain points.

As a general rule on FD (and stadium, but a little less extreme), it is much worse to jump. Platforms provide an escape option once you are in the air, so you lose those when you don't have any platforms (or just the two, small, low ones on stadium).

I think I can probably give better advice if I see your matches. I do recommend posting videos because it is easiest to see what problems you are having in them.

I've had a good streak against Foxes lately. I've been really nailing the tech chasing, so my punishes have gotten a lot better. I find dreamland is the most awkward stage for me to play on because the top platform is hard to reach and cover. The stage is also just generally too spacious and allows Fox to run around more than I want them to.

I will probably ask Kadano about dropping through platforms [considering tagging him here], because I watched a video on it, and it said dropping through a platform induces 3 frames of crouch: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtiDd5cQWJc&t=9m32s ) [I noticed this by watching the frame counter at the top. Also if you go to 8:22 you can see Link do shield-drop-platform-cancelled uair -> spin attack on Falco [looks cool].

However, I have no guarantee that A) crouch is not interruptible [I know jumpsquat is by certain actions] or B) that shielddropping is not somehow faster than a default drop-through, and if it is, that would be correct.

I will definitely link the videos when the tournament that happened last weekend is uploaded [and if it's not uploaded by next weekend I'll just upload whatever's there and link the twitch timestamps or something, but I personally don't like working with twitch as much since it's harder to move to a precise time and it's usually slower].

 

[Barry BlaZe]

Link mains! Tell me your knowledge about link vs falco! I am a falco main but I want to get inside a link mains head.

My main problem when fighting against link as falco is edgeguarding him and being clueless as to what to look for in nuetral.

 

[SYickX]

Edgeguarding Link is nearly impossible without some level of reading. Get an idea how he uses his hookshot, and try to hold the ledge while Link hangs. Then, you can bair or shine bair when does the flip.

In neutral you want to stop Link from getting bombs. Bomb OoS is great against lasers, so be ready.

Other than that, you'll find more help in a Falco thread.

 

[Darklink401]

So I gots a question, is there any benefit to running over walking with Link?

Both running and walking for him are pretty much the same speeds, but he can do a lot more from a walk.

 

[SAUS]

So I gots a question, is there any benefit to running over walking with Link?

Both running and walking for him are pretty much the same speeds, but he can do a lot more from a walk.

An interesting point. I actually want to analyze some matches to see how often I run / walk. I know I run for things like tech chasing and combos as well as pivot grabs, but maybe running in neutral is not a good idea.

If I had to answer this right away, you definitely need to run and dash sometimes, but it might only be during punishes.

 

[Darklink401]

An interesting point. I actually want to analyze some matches to see how often I run / walk. I know I run for things like tech chasing and combos as well as pivot grabs, but maybe running in neutral is not a good idea.

If I had to answer this right away, you definitely need to run and dash sometimes, but it might only be during punishes.

You can turn around and grab at any point during a walk. However I definitely agree that there are some moments we'd want to dash, as it IS a BIT faster

However, it's definitely something to take advantage of, because while Link's one of the slowest runners in the game, he's also one of the top 10 fastest walkers (we walk as fast as Sheik can walk :3)

 

[Thor]

Important question to ask for all Link mains, and it's about a technical aspect of Melee so I'll ask Kadano

I know double stick DI exists in Brawl, where you can SDI/ASDI with the c-stick. However, I was told recently that you can't SDI with the c-stick in Melee. Can the c-stick be used to input SDI and/or ASDI or not?

I've been trying to SDI Fox waveshines and uair with both the c-stick and control stick, but if I can only use the control stick, I'll save myself some effort [and also avoid any unintentional smash attacks] and use only the control stick instead.

 

[Kadano]

No SDI with C-stick in Melee. Only ASDI. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RP3sbS7Dm0

 

[SAUS]

Ya, what Kadano said. Double stick DI has minimal uses in melee. It mainly allows for ASDI in a different direction from your DI.

In the case of trying to SDI fox stuff, you can hold the c-stick in the direction you want and then try to SDI it with the analog stick. This will ensure you at least get the ASDI.

I do have a weird semi-option select against fox aerials though. If you hold c-stick down for ASDI down and SDI every aerial sideways, you can SDI out of drills and ASDI down other aerials. It it kind of awkward to input on the controller quickly, though maybe I just need to practice it more.

 

[Brash Candihoot]

Why does Link's SHFFL Nair feel faster and seem more effective than YL's

It's bizarre since the data would suggest otherwise.

YL is more mobile, has better DD
His Nair is stronger clean and late
YL has a faster jump speed by 2 frames
This means his SHFFL is still 1 frame faster than Link's (3 frames faster on 2nd SH)


I'm guessing the only things that could prove this feeling true with data is that Link has can FF faster (but his SHFFL is still overall slower) and his Nair has like 50% more range....

 

[squirrels4ev]

Why does Link's SHFFL Nair feel faster and seem more effective than YL's

Frame data on Link's nair:

Total: 39
Hit: 4-39
IASA: 36
Auto cancel: <3 32>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

Link's nair is the only move in the game besides maybe Sheik's u-tilt that lasts all the way until the end of the frames of the move, and the hitbox on it is larger than YL's. SHFFL nair isn't that great with Link unless you're already comboing or are going to edge cancel it. Better to full jump nair because it's interruptable with any number of different things. You can nair, bair, uair, or jump out of Link's nair in a full jump. You can probably fair also but it would almost never actually combo nair>fair without a jump in between. Nair>nair and nair>bair and nair>uair combo really easily on heavy characters and it's all reactable based on where Link's hurtbox is compared to his opponent's one. Nair>uair leads to a lot on captain falcon at most percents. Low percents you can utilt him until he reaches a percent where you can sh uair him. higher percents you can just go straight from nair>uair to sh uair or fj dair.

I don't know much about YL but I think his nair works kind of like Falcon's uair or Pikachu's nair in that it will combo into itself if you dash shffl it and then quickly dash and shffl it again because the move comes out so quick, has decent combo knockback potential, and, like Pikachu and Falcon, YL has a fast dash and short jumpsquat.

Different nair's for different purposes. Link's is like a forcefield and YL's is more of a precise thing. Check out the hitboxes in the frame data threads for each character.

 

[Brash Candihoot]

Frame data on Link's nair:



Link's nair is the only move in the game besides maybe Sheik's u-tilt that lasts all the way until the end of the frames of the move, and the hitbox on it is larger than YL's. SHFFL nair isn't that great with Link unless you're already comboing or are going to edge cancel it. Better to full jump nair because it's interruptable with any number of different things. You can nair, bair, uair, or jump out of Link's nair in a full jump. You can probably fair also but it would almost never actually combo nair>fair without a jump in between. Nair>nair and nair>bair and nair>uair combo really easily on heavy characters and it's all reactable based on where Link's hurtbox is compared to his opponent's one. Nair>uair leads to a lot on captain falcon at most percents. Low percents you can utilt him until he reaches a percent where you can sh uair him. higher percents you can just go straight from nair>uair to sh uair or fj dair.

I don't know much about YL but I think his nair works kind of like Falcon's uair or Pikachu's nair in that it will combo into itself if you dash shffl it and then quickly dash and shffl it again because the move comes out so quick, has decent combo knockback potential, and, like Pikachu and Falcon, YL has a fast dash and short jumpsquat.

Different nair's for different purposes. Link's is like a forcefield and YL's is more of a precise thing. Check out the hitboxes in the frame data threads for each character.

Ok....all this I know already (also there are other moves like G&W's U-tilt that last to end frame). I've been playing this game for like 6 years and have studied the frame data, hitboxes, and masterhand tool since all those were available here. When it comes to frame data, knockback figures, kill set ups, combo flowcharts, edgeguarding for both YL and Link I can pretty much answer any question off the top of my head with confidence.

Full hop Nair to Nair (or other aerial) is certainly a good option but what you are saying is completely false. It's only a really safe option to throw out a ton against bad players or those that don't know the MU. It doesn't have a lot of disjoint...so A LOT OF THINGS CAN EASILY INTERRUPT FH NAIR....e.g. Fox's Upsmash, Uptilt....Marth's Fsmash (actually his anything)....Sheik's Bair or tilts, all of Ganon's moves, all of Samus's moves, etc......you go FH Nairing around and you will get bodied like a scrub. Once Link is in the air and is coming down they have 20+ frames to react and punish your trajectory if you don't mix up.

So, you will have to mix up with SHFFL Fair and nair approaches, especially after a bomb or boomerang confirm. you then follow up that SHFFL with another aerial or dash or something that leads into another stronger hit. Link's SHFFL Nair or even fade back SH Nair OoS are really effective because it has good range, it's fast, has low LL, and covers almost all SH approaches or characters standing/crouching. His ground speed sucks but his good aerial mobility backwards and forward makes his SHFFL game usable (plus it's air time is only 20 frames, which is in the top percentile).

 

[squirrels4ev]

It's only a really safe option to throw out a ton against bad players or those that don't know the MU. It doesn't have a lot of disjoint...so A LOT OF THINGS CAN EASILY INTERRUPT FH NAIR....e.g. Fox's Upsmash, Uptilt....Marth's Fsmash (actually his anything)....Sheik's Bair or tilts, all of Ganon's moves, all of Samus's moves, etc......you go FH Nairing around and you will get bodied like a scrub. Once Link is in the air and is coming down they have 20+ frames to react and punish your trajectory if you don't mix up.

Forcefield was probably a poor choice of words. I didn't mean to indicate that Link's nair had an enormous disjointed hitbox that just plows through everything, and maybe that's not how you interpreted what I was saying. The hitbox simply envelops Link in such a way that he will trade with anything that isn't disjointed or invincible unless he is hit in the high upper body near his head. Full jumping reduces the risk of getting full jumped over and hit in the head with a move like a Falco or Fox bair or dair. Full jump nair is always a mixup, and it's necessary in matchups against characters that are fast enough to stay on top of Link and keep him from getting projectiles safely. Most prominently the Fox, Falco, and Falcon matchups. If all you do is nair you will eventually get scooped, but it's easy enough to see when they're going for that and to react accordingly by jumping out to waveland on a platform or by fastfalling early to catch them by surprise with the end of nair or a low to the ground nair or bair used to interrupt the ending frames of the first FH nair. You have to do different things in each matchup. Marth likes to stay on the ground and juggle so there's no need to get above him with a nair. He has to be projectile camped into followups, caught out of DD with jabs to keep him from grabbing you, and CC or shield grabbed if he gets too aggressive with fairs or if he incorrectly spaces fsmash or dtilt on your shield. Marth is used to getting away with attacks on shield on slow characters that can't wavedash out and punish him in time. Sheik should also be projectile camped into followups. It's generally harder to grab Sheik than Marth but you can still grab most tilts and any downsmashes that hit your shield. As for Ganon, he's easy enough camp. Very slow on the ground, and he has a large hurtbox. All you have to worry about is being too aggressive and getting caught by retreating fair.

Link's SHFFL Nair or even fade back SH Nair OoS are really effective because it has good range, it's fast, has low LL, and covers almost all SH approaches or characters standing/crouching.

Nair comes out frame 4. Link isn't airborne until frame 7. A frame perfect nair has an active hitbox on frame 10. Slow, but still one of Link's fastest options. The problem with SH nair oos is that you have to land again and unless you're on FoD with the low platforms you'll have to land soon after you jump and you'll have to land near the opponent you just tried to catch with your frame 10 nair oos. Many characters can simply CC nair if you hit them and punish you when you land. FJ nair OoS lets you fade further away, edge cancel on a platform, double jump out and waveland on or off of a platform, or simply use a second nair to come down if your opponent is slow to get under you. Faster characters with fast moves like Sheik, Fox, Falco, and Falcon are dangerous to shield against without a bomb in hand because Link's fastest counter option without a bomb is a frame 9 up OoS which is CC punishable at low percents by all those characters except Sheik who can only punish at very low percents. If you do end up caught in shield against these characters and they don't mess up their pressure string, you'll have to roll or spotdodge or you will be hit or grabbed by them.

You should watch some sets of the better modern Link mains to see what I mean about FJ nair. J666 vs Zhu at KoC3 comes to mind. Christian (formerly Zoro) has some good falco sets on youtube. Any of J666, Germ, or SAUS vs Fox, Falco, or Falcon should do, although Falcon is a matchup where SH nair can be good for catching him jumping.

 

[Brash Candihoot]

I've seen almost every single Germ, J666, Lord HDL, Skler, Stro, SAUS set that has a VOD or was streamed

Consider 3 things

1. CC into anything is viable against Link's late Nair into very high percents (and clean sometimes) for almost any character against Link that likes to FH Nair or Nair again.

2. None of those sets where that tactic was spammed and seemed useful had players that actually knew the MU or punished it apporpriately. You literally have 36-49 frames to decide how you want to knock Link out of the Air or about 25-30 frames after reaction time to intercept him. It's probably one of the easiest things to punish, but those that are clueless never try.

3. Think about stages....when can you actually use FH Nairs into something else even if it was impenetrable? FD and "maybe" PS. On other stages you are confined to the middle, and that makes it even more predictable and punishable.


SHFFL is a staple option for a reason, it's often too fast to react to unless someone does the same thing over and over. SHFFL Fair, Nair, and Bair can't really be punished on reaction unless they get lucky and shield it or spot dodge it (both are soft reads and not reaction based if you space well). 7 frames is almost negligible with how fast this game moves, it's only 3 frames slower than Fox and other fast jumpers. And it's not like you can tell within 5/60ths of a second if Link is crouching, WDing, or about to jump into a SH or FH.

FH Nair is 36-49 frames of can't do anything else, doesn't matter if you DJ into something else or just Nair again before landing. THe point at which Link commits to a Nair in FH the opponenet can see that and easily puinish it if they are competent and have a normal human reaction time.

It's a great unique Mix up Link has but it's not that safe against people that have played you or any other LInk that uses it too often. In fact it's as risky and dangerous as whiffing a grab if the opponent knows that the hitbox isn't that great and that Link is stuck in X frames during a FH.

 

[Showgingah]

Maybe I'll just take on those players with no projectiles and only jabs. ヽ( ͡°╭͜ʖ╮͡° )ﾉ

 

[SAUS]

Maybe Link's short hop goes lower than Young Link's. That would make it a little more spammy / nice feeling (similar to how Shiek's shuffling does not feel nice due to super high height and lower fall speed lol).

 

[Zebkeet]

Hi, I'm pretty new here to the link boards, but I have a question.
As we all know, Link can't Waveland off the battlefield (and on other stages?) side platforms and double-jump Waveland on to the top platform because his jump is too low. Are there any alternatives to this? Has anything that can achieve something like that been discovered? Other than just jumping and wavelanding on I mean. Because if not... I might have found something really cool.

 

[Brash Candihoot]

Ummm....yes Link can WL DJ WL side to top plat. His backwards DJ WL is consistent for me.

Besides there are work arounds if you can't do it. Just normal jump after WL or jump > DJ WL.

 

[Zebkeet]

iv'e never been able to, what?
ive never seen this or have been able to. i thought his character model didn't go that high.
i'm so dumb rofl

 

[garotis]

I'm considering a switch off from Link to a higher tier.

I swear, even when I am winning versus a good fox/falco/falcon/sheik, it feels like I'm losing. In the case where you're fighting against a high tier whose tech skill and combos are on point, the ratio of effort required from you versus the effort required from them is completely beyond unity.

SAUS , any comment? The only reasons I can think of as to why you haven't switched mains are the following:
1.) You are known as The Link Guy and don't want to abandon that identity.
2.) You are not significantly bothered by being soft-capped via character selection.
3.) You hold a belief that Link is the only character that gives you satisfaction in relation to your play-style.

I'm asking purely out of curiosity. How does everyone else feel about this topic?

 

[Zebkeet]

Or maybe he sees potential in Link, as I do.

 

[Team Plasma N]

I'm not SAUS, but as a Smash player I play characters that I legitimately like. I've been a Legend of Zelda fan for a long time, so that's my reason for maining Link. I've also been a part of the competitive Pokemon community for a while, so naturally my secondary is a Pokemon (Mewtwo, I'm still learning him). Imo you should be maining Link if:

1: He's one of your favorite characters
2: You like the feel of the character and his playstyle
3: You find playing as him fun
4: You want to see how far you can push Link

If you're only playing Melee to win, then you might as well just go Fox. I'm not saying if you main a low tier then don't even try winning, on the contrary the goal is to win but you should be having fun with your matches.

 

[SAUS]

I'm considering a switch off from Link to a higher tier.

I swear, even when I am winning versus a good fox/falco/falcon/sheik, it feels like I'm losing. In the case where you're fighting against a high tier whose tech skill and combos are on point, the ratio of effort required from you versus the effort required from them is completely beyond unity.

SAUS , any comment? The only reasons I can think of as to why you haven't switched mains are the following:
1.) You are known as The Link Guy and don't want to abandon that identity.
2.) You are not significantly bothered by being soft-capped via character selection.
3.) You hold a belief that Link is the only character that gives you satisfaction in relation to your play-style.

I'm asking purely out of curiosity. How does everyone else feel about this topic?

Mostly this:

3: You find playing as him fun

My Link is also legitimately way better than all my other characters (though I would say I have a solid Falcon, Falco, and Marth).

1) I am "The Link Guy", sure, but if I wasn't having fun with Link, I'd either quit melee or switch characters. There is no point playing if I am not having fun. I suppose I can go for some money, but that won't hold up when there are other hungry players, and I'd definitely not keep that up for long.

2) This "soft cap" is only really spoken of by others (as in at least not me ). There have been hundreds of people to say "Link is not viable" and stuff like his matchups against Shiek and Fox are as bad as 9-1. Truth is, if I tried to play on even footing (as in going high tier against them) with top Fox and Shiek players, they would annihilate me. I am not sure who you are or how good you are, but I can feel how much worse my secondaries are when I play against really good players. It is not going to magically feel like you are winning. It is always going to feel like an uncomfortable struggle to beat strong opponents. That is where the game is the most fun, though.

3) I don't think that this one is the case. I just have the most fun with Link. I have solid secondaries because I also find those characters fun (and I play them differently than how I play Link), but I find Link more fun than them.

All that said, I have nothing against someone who wants to switch. There are definitely some sad times for Link. However, I think it will only be a matter of time before you find similar sad times with the high tiers. Make sure you switch for the right reason. IMO, you cannot win if you do not have fun. You cannot progress because you don't want to. Who would want to practice something they don't enjoy?

I'd like to play you some day :D

 

[F. Stein]

Saus, I think we'd ALL like to play you someday. Regardless of who we main.

 

[Eradicator]

I'm having trouble with Fox laser camping, he is fast and it is hard to punish him. Here is some footage of me struggling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHU29_W-KcM&feature=youtu.be

 

[Team Plasma N]

I'm having trouble with Fox laser camping, he is fast and it is hard to punish him. Here is some footage of me struggling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHU29_W-KcM&feature=youtu.be

Is the video supposed to be private? Because.... unless you've given someone permission to see it, we can't access it :/ .

 

[Eradicator]

Is the video supposed to be private? Because.... unless you've given someone permission to see it, we can't access it :/ .

Sorry about that, I beat him in tournament yesterday. Then I lost to a Marth that I beat when last we met. Bitter sweet day.

 

[Hunybear]

So recently I was playing at my weekly and I've been in a slump when it comes to my main Marth. I haven't really been having as much fun with the game and I actually lost in pools recently for the first time in a year... I started to play link and I couldn't help but be happy with everything I did. Even when I was getting bodied I was just happy to be playing him and it's been the case for as long as I've played the game.
I'll be Maining link from now on! This decision was not made as a result of me losing faith in my Marth. If that were the case I'd just go to another top tier. Link is my Favorite character and is the most fun to play. OOT is my favorite game of all time. honestly I believe this switch was Long over due.

 

[F. Stein]

Link is my secondary and I'm doing nothing but solo smash practice over the break. So roughly 7 days with 2-3 hours a day of time to practice and grind. What can I do to practice moving fluidly with link and what things are there to practice in general with him?

 

[Eradicator]

Link is my secondary and I'm doing nothing but solo smash practice over the break. So roughly 7 days with 2-3 hours a day of time to practice and grind. What can I do to practice moving fluidly with link and what things are there to practice in general with him?

Get the hang of L-canceling, shuffling nair, find out how high/far the mid to top tiers go when: downthrown, upthrown or dash attacked. These can lead to a dair kill or an uair shuffle at the right damage. These will take you far, don't mess with cpu's too much b/c they don't react realistically. Eg Fox can block the 2nd hit of the fsmash at low damage but the cpu won't so you will get false confidence. I guess you can use cpus for edgeguard practice on spacies, practice projectile accuracy and run off the stage with a nair.