Q&A Mirror of Truth or Palutena's Advice? Both available at all hours of the day

[Furret]

How does pit's dair work as a jab lock? doesn't it have quite a bit of knockback?

I'm just going by what My Smash Corner said on youtube
you can check out both the video featuring the true combo with Dair and a jab lock tutorial there

 

[Strider_123]

Yes, I was

oh yes! please do! it would really come in handy.

 

[Furret]

oh yes! please do! it would really come in handy.

I've almost finished the rough draft, If I stop getting alerts I'll be done with in the hour. You'd have to tell the Zelda Social to shut up for that though XD

 

[Yong Dekonk]

Drop down way below the stage (you will almost be off screen) and rocket vertically and you will snap to the ledge. Also side b works as a good recovery too.

 

[irokex13]

Pit's Side B is a solid KO option with super armor, but has anyone else had some inconsistencies with the super armor on this move? I know that he can be interrupted during the startup of this move, but there have been several times where I have been knocked out of the dash part of this move by a variety of attacks (ranging from attacks as strong as Ganondorf's dair to Kirby's jab). In fact, in the same match with that Ganondorf, one time his dair stuffed my side b, but the next time Pit just tanked the attack. Does anyone have the frame data for when the super armor is active?

Also, this move also reflects projectiles, but sometimes Pit will just armor through the projectile and continue on with the dash. Is there also a certain period for the reflective properties of the attack or is Sakurai trolling us by making it random?

 

[Furret]

Grounded upperdash arm thing
super armor activates on frame 11.0
hit box activates on frame 16.0
super armor finishes on frame 27.0
hit box finishes on frame 36.0

 

[Chickenmcdonky]

As a Shulk main I get crapped on by Pits pretty much every time i fight him. Pit's fast enough to whiff a Dsmash, immediately spot dodge whatever punish Shulk tries,(Ftilt is my go-to move for quick punishes) and then punish my attempted punish with a smash attack. Overall I find it very hard to fight him because I keep getting baited by his total lack of cooldown frames. Not to mention he doesn't have to approach at all with those arrows.

It doesn't matter how carefully I try to fight him, Pit always has the advantage on Shulk when he does anything other than stand there and powershield until pit gets sick of throwing them.

 

[anas abou]

just use his side b or fsmash and stop complaining some characters have much harder time killing (no offence)

 

[MDAVE]

DP's side B has a lot of launching power, but can also be punished easily since of all the lag it has. You'll have to mix it up with different moves every now and then and use your SideB when they don't see it coming.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

I think this issue has less to do with frame data and more to do with hurt boxes. I'm not an expert but I have noticed that if an opponent uses a disjointed attack it may prioritize Pit's side b. I'm guessing what's going on is that although pits attack and your opponents collide simultaneously, your opponents attack is outside that character's hurt box. Even though Gamon's legs are part of his body it may be a disjointed attack. Also, you said it happened twice with different results and that may be because the second time the moves collided in slightly different places.

 

[Sora66]

I was just thinking, I was playing for glory today and I found andy. I don't know if its the tournament andy, but he went with shulk and pit for some reason, not lugi. Well anyways, i figured out that dtilt is now my best friend. every time he spotdodged, I went for dtilt and it hit for some reason. When he was pit we both used dtilt so many times. What are the frames of that move cuz its very very very fast. I'm also having trouble with Dair. I was reading the Dair discussion and It seemed like people were rating it pretty high. I was also watching zero vs sethlon on project m and it seemed that he used dair a lot as a combo starter. I know that the games are totally different but I just wanted to know if it could be used in the same fasion in smash 4 like in PM. Any thoughts on that guys?

 

[Furret]

I was just thinking, I was playing for glory today and I found andy. I don't know if its the tournament andy, but he went with shulk and pit for some reason, not lugi. Well anyways, i figured out that dtilt is now my best friend. every time he spotdodged, I went for dtilt and it hit for some reason. When he was pit we both used dtilt so many times. What are the frames of that move cuz its very very very fast. I'm also having trouble with Dair. I was reading the Dair discussion and It seemed like people were rating it pretty high. I was also watching zero vs sethlon on project m and it seemed that he used dair a lot as a combo starter. I know that the games are totally different but I just wanted to know if it could be used in the same fasion in smash 4 like in PM. Any thoughts on that guys?

http://smashboards.com/threads/pits-frame-data-update-1-25-15.388011/

 

[Sora66]

Thanks for that, I will take a look on that

 

[Furret]

Thanks for that, I will take a look on that

no prob, and as for dair I only really use it to edge guard and combo/string out of Dthrow. I'm not much a pit player so I'm sure someone else can give you better advice on that

 

[Sora66]

no prob, and as for dair I only really use it to edge guard and combo/string out of Dthrow. I'm not much a pit player so I'm sure someone else can give you better advice on that

No its ok that seems like a good way to use the move, is that move a good throw out move because I don't think opponents will be anticipating you to use that

 

[Shadestars]

So, I've just picked up Pit and Dark pit as my new secondaries (after discovering they have longer sword range than Marth, which is disgusting and shouldn't happen lol but I do love me some sword range) and quickly learned that Pit is pretty much superior in a few aspects, including the ftilt. Though I was curious what players use to follow -up Dark pits weaker knockback on ftilt with, if anything? Maybe some mix-up potential there? Maaaaayybe? o3o

 

[Zano]

I actually have a couple questions if anyone can answer them. Which part of pits/dark pit's dair is a meteor? Or maybe a better question would be, which part of his dair is the sweetspot? And also, how much damage does it take to break pit/dark pit's down b reflector? Does it rack up damage overtime and then break? Or does it need to be overpowered in one big hit?

Directly below him is the sweetspot, orbitars break after one big hit, I have yet to ever see them break from accumulated damage, but I don't think there's even a matchup that would cause this if so. The most common move that you'll have done against you that can break them is pk thunder 2


Regarding killing for whoever was mentioning it, fthrow is a gimmick kill and usmash has a ridiculously pathetic hitbox. Even if you read the landing they can airdodge through it and still avoid the whole thing AND punish you. Getting a kill with this character is pretty hard tho, you don't get them handed to you for free, so unless you can get a gimp or fsmash/bair read, you'll find them living pretty high. Then again, if your opponent is dumb enough to keep standing by the ledge, feel free to kill them with fthrow since they're asking for it.

 

[Zano]

you get nothing out of ftilt, and it's even punishable on shield, so have fun with that.

 

[Enderwoman]

At reaaaallllly low percents you can combo an untippered f tilt into another f tilt. Its highly situational and I doubt you can get much use out of it and its only for Dark Pit, but its a thing regardless.

 

[Shadestars]

Oh well, honestly expected as much. Its just so strange that dark pit randomly has this weaker ftilt and gains nothing for it. Wierd.

 

[ReRaze]

Are there any scenarios in which pit can set up a jab lock with his dair? Only one I can think of right now is forward throw at very low percents (provided that they don't jump or tech).

 

[TotallyNotMikey]

Heya.

I've been eyeing Pit for some time now. He seems to be a pretty good character, especially when it comes to gimping opponents, which is one thing I've been wanting to practice more ever since picking up Shulk. My air game is definitely a highlight of my playstyle (Yay forward air jump arts).

I've tried a few matches, needless to say I'm pretty average with him. He seems to lack KO power and I have the hardest of times trying to hit anything at an angle with his arrows.

However, if I was to put in the time, would Pit fit the bill as a decent secondary who would fit me affinity for air games? Should I try out his darker self first? Should I not even bother to begin with? I'd like to know, he seems to have some great potential.

 

[Wintropy]

Yes.

Pit is a character with a diverse toolkit and a viable array of options for mix-ups and countering different matchups. He's a pretty easy character to get to grips with, but quite tricky to master. Definitely worth the time and effort to learn him, though. He's a very fun and exciting character to play if you do well with him.

That being said, you need to understand how Pit works. He's not a rushdown character, and I'd hesitate to label him an aerial fighter. He's a defensive fighter who wants to bait the opponent and punish them, due to his lack of safe kill options and relatively weak damage output, and he's got a few tricks up his sleeve to keep the opponent guessing. None of his specials are at all similar, they all have different effects and different uses, and part of the fun of playing Pit is figuring out which moves work best in which context.

Dark Pit is similar, but with a few differences. His arrows can't be guided nearly as effectively, for one, which makes a huge difference in the metagame; likewise, his Electroshock Arm launches opponents at an angle rather than straight up like his better half's Upperdash Arm, and that can either work for you or against you, depending on how you choose to play him. Both have good combo potential and can use their amazing recovery and aerial options to go deep and gimp the opponent off-stage, which is a big part of their playstyles. I'd definitely recommend trying out both and seeing which one takes your fancy. Let us know when you've got an idea of your opinions on them.

 

[TotallyNotMikey]

Alright, thanks for the post. From looking at other threads it seems the Pit is better than Dark Pit just for his arrows alone. Needless to say, I'm gonna hop onto For Glory now and try them both, probably about 20 opponents each. From watching videos he seems to be pretty strong when it comes to the Omega stages, especially with his down-b.

Anywhoozle, I'll get back to this thread once I'm finished. I'll be taking notes and will hopefully come to a decision.

Thanks c:!

 

[TotallyNotMikey]

Alright, I return with great results. I can already tell Pit has potential, as I won 19 out of my 20 matches, the only lost match was too a very good Fox, who rushed me down. Thankfully he stayed, and I beat him in the 2nd match.

The only problem I have is hitting his arrows in any other direction than straight forward, it's really tricky for me.

Shall I even bother with Dark Pit? I went against one and I beat him pretty easily.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Alright, I return with great results. I can already tell Pit has potential, as I won 19 out of my 20 matches, the only lost match was too a very good Fox, who rushed me down. Thankfully he stayed, and I beat him in the 2nd match.

The only problem I have is hitting his arrows in any other direction than straight forward, it's really tricky for me.

Shall I even bother with Dark Pit? I went against one and I beat him pretty easily.

According to Nairo, he uses Dark Pit because he prefers to use his arrows to force an airdodge. He also suggested to some Pit he played to use Dark Pit if you like using Upperdash at early percentages. However, I personally am more comfortable with Pit as I've gotten pretty damn good at angling and controlling his arrows. Pit's F-tilt also has a ton more knockback over Dark Pit's.

I personally don't bother with Dark Pit, but I mean there's nothing stopping you from dabbling with him. I takes a while to get good with using Pit's arrows, so don't get disheartened straight away. Don't rush things, just go with the flow

 

[TotallyNotMikey]

According to Nairo, he uses Dark Pit because he prefers to use his arrows to force an airdodge. He also suggested to some Pit he played to use Dark Pit if you like using Upperdash at early percentages. However, I personally am more comfortable with Pit as I've gotten pretty damn good at angling and controlling his arrows. Pit's F-tilt also has a ton more knockback over Dark Pit's.

I personally don't bother with Dark Pit, but I mean there's nothing stopping you from dabbling with him. I takes a while to get good with using Pit's arrows, so don't get disheartened straight away. Don't rush things, just go with the flow

I found myself barely using the Uppercut, only for faking out my opponent. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing when it comes to Pit.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

I found myself barely using the Uppercut, only for faking out my opponent. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing when it comes to Pit.

Hm, I tend to use mine to juggle opponents and keep them in the air. People tend to never expect you to use Upperdash in the air, by the way. If you and your opponent are both falling, line yourselves together and go for it. It's also useful for recovering back onto the stage.

 

[Sora66]

Heh heh heh...... The funny thing is that I wanted to use shulk as a secondary main....... (How ironic) I also like using retreating fair just to maybe stop my opponent into doing an attack or as a baiting option. After I use I go for a nair because opponents normally go in for the attack, but don't do it too much because your opponent will catch on too that. For the arm, What I do is that at high percents I run up to them, dash to the other side and depending if they go for an attack I use the arm. If not I might just go for a grab if their shield is up. Also pits and dark pits fthrow can kill at around 130 or 140.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I highly enjoy trolling people with my control over my arrows, also I feel Pit is a very solid character in 4. He has a lot of options, literally my only issue playing as him is it feels a bit hard to KO with him sometimes.

 

[Sora66]

I highly enjoy trolling people with my control over my arrows, also I feel Pit is a very solid character in 4. He has a lot of options, literally my only issue playing as him is it feels a bit hard to KO with him sometimes.

YESSSSSSS! How could I forgot about his arrow game. If you have a solid arrow game that itself is one step closer to getting good at pit. I feel that the extra damage from gimping people is just very rewarding.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

YESSSSSSS! How could I forgot about his arrow game. If you have a solid arrow game that itself is one step closer to getting good at pit. I feel that the extra damage from gimping people is just very rewarding.

Very much so, it throws people off when you do jump shots and control them even then.

 

[SoulRed12]

The easiest way to ensure you snap to the ledge is by scraping your head up the side of the stage. Unfortunately that's just begging Villagers to drop a bowling ball on you if the stage is flat-sided. Against them or certain other characters, you'll just have to be a bit more diagonal if they're looking to edge guard you.

 

[SoulRed12]

Pits' most reliable kill moves are:

-Forward throw - be sure not to stale this before you need it
-Forward smash - ugly ending lag, be careful
-Electroshock from the stage - kills earlier than you might think, but you need to hit near the ledge which means if you miss you might fly off. You can pretty easily recover from this though, Pits' up+B is that good and for whatever reason, I rarely get gimped when it happens.
-Forward or down air off the stage - the most fun option, Pit can even pull a Jiggly and chase someone to the side blast zone. Don't go too far and low though, up+B can only take you so far

 

[Wa_Black]

I'm trying to get into playing DP, can some tell what are the common frame traps to land a f smash or up smash? Also aerial frame traps would be nice as well

 

[Furret]

Yesterday I decided to pick Pit up as a secondary, and am loving it. With one exception. For the life of me I can't properly use his up-B to recover consistently. So I figured you pro people could help me out a bit with my woes!

1) Sweet-spotting the ledge. How the hell does this work? Sometimes the up-B snatches the ledge from anywhere within a pretty good margin (like with all other characters I've played). Sometimes even tho I hit the very right spot it just sails right past it, leading to me losing a stock from falling helplessly into a charged smash attack way too often. This most frequently happens when I try to go straight up to the ledge from below the stage, but also happens diagonally at times. I've tried different distances, I've tried holding and smashing towards the ledge, but nothing seems consistent.

Yeah I had this problem, and even with the color coding it's hard asf to know when that is, with everything else going on. But all in practice I guess...

Waaaat?? There's a colour change? ._.

All I've been doing to recover is try to position myself directly beneath the edge or somewhere close to a 45 degree angle if I can before using up-B.

Playing as Pit about 30% of the time in Smash, I also think I've never experienced Up-B recovery with my back towards the ledge because I usually always have a jump left in me to reposition myself.

So consequently, what happens when you're back is facing the ledge? Are you like Princess Peach?

Probably should have posted my findings on pits u Special from the Frame data when I got it, my bad
when pit first activates the move as you noticed he can't grab the ledge. Pit has a predetermined timer for when he can grab the ledge (as mentioned by others) from the front and when he can grab the ledge from behind
after 12 frames he can grab the ledge from the front
after 28 frames he can grab the ledge from behind as well as in front
I'm not sure when the timer starts for this (might just be safe to assume it is when he starts flying) and I'm not sure how many total frames the move is

 

[Lavani]

after 28 frames he can grab the ledge from behind as well as in front

Oh, this is news to me.

Checking in-game, this lines up with when his wing glow turns red, so there's a convenient visual indicator for this too.

 

[Furret]

@ Lavani
here's the file

def game_264():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=12.000000, )
unk_0C4(0x1, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=28.000000, )
unk_0C4(0x2, )
End_196()

I never would have found his U special if it wasn't for his customs

 

[Lavani]

Oh, I didn't notice Thinkaman had posted about 0C4 relating to ledgesnaps. The old theory was that it had to do with the upB angling window and I never bothered looking for it on moves so I just went with it.

Interesting.

 

[saturday night smash]

also pits side b can reflect pretty much any projectile including pikachus thunder