Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I don't think Jigglypuff should be cut.

I also don't think she should be put on some pedestal like she's "untouchable" just because "she hasn't been cut before".
She's just barely made it a number of times by the skin of her teeth just because she's been relatively easy to just copy data for. There will be a time she won't be so lucky and people need to accept that.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

speaking of puff got my second shiny one this morning anyone still up for Scream Tail?

Me, i am.

I feel likes its the easiest way to represent an era of Pokemon that they will most likely skip over.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That was already the case with Melee, it's just more obvious when there's no wavedashing.

I knew it was always the case, but it became much more exaggerated in Brawl.

Jigglypuff should get Draining Kiss as a command grab.

You know how the Kirby cast used to smooch each other to transfer healing items in multiplayer? Yeah I just pictured something like that and just...That's the funniest thing I've seen all day. lol

Mental images aside though, how would you handle giving Jigglypuff a command grab, especially one that's a life steal in the source material? Would it act like Nosferatu?

I also would move Sing to one of Jigglypuff's other specials (and buff it) and then give it a new up special, since it's always bugged me a lot how it has the only up special that doesn't give recovery.

I think Rest is the reason why Sing was so terrible pre Ultimate, and I would say they've got to be careful with giving a character with a move like that free-er access to a stun.

Also, Egg Throw. I mean, it does boost recovery, but like, not really?

 

[Louie G.]

Jigglypuff should get Draining Kiss as a command grab.

I kinda love this idea, but it could be as simple as making it her pummel. She gives the opponent a couple smooches and sponges up some of their lost HP. She’s frail enough where I think getting a few HP back from a grab - which is pretty difficult to do as Jigglypuff to begin with - would be a justified risk reward.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I kinda love this idea, but it could be as simple as making it her pummel. She gives the opponent a couple smooches and sponges up some of their lost HP. She’s frail enough where I think getting a few HP back from a grab - which is pretty difficult to do as Jigglypuff to begin with - would be a justified risk reward.

On top of this, I don't think Jigglypuff really gets anything off of her throws (aside from Melee where Up Throw -> Rest was a thing) other than a bit of stage control, so this could be a pretty cool way of giving her a unique reason to land a grab, preferably at high percentages where she can kiss them repeatedly.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

On top of this, I don't think Jigglypuff really gets anything off of her throws (aside from Melee where Up Throw -> Rest was a thing) other than a bit of stage control, so this could be a pretty cool way of giving her a unique reason to land a grab, preferably at high percentages where she can kiss them repeatedly.

They changed her forward throw's angle in an Ultimate patch so that it's easier to set up edgeguards if done near a ledge.

It's not much but it's still something that's very appreciated since Puff is very good at edgeguarding, so anything that helps this aspect of her is very good.

Draining Kiss could be a pummel so you get the risk-reward of keeping on the pummels until they mash out or lose out on some healing by yeeting the foe.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It just dawned on me that there isn't really anything stopping them from making the Mario Head from Mario Teaches Typing an assist trophy.

I didn't know where else to express this realization.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Crackpot Smash Ideas: Classic Mode now has a bunch of different minigames it randomly selects during its bonus round. These minigames are mostly stuff that's appeared before, but with one new addition: Jet Board.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Crackpot Smash Ideas: Classic Mode now has a bunch of different minigames it randomly selects during its bonus round. These minigames are mostly stuff that's appeared before, but with one new addition: Jet Board.

I'm sold on most of the idea but you're gonna need to explain Jet Board.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm sold on most of the idea but you're gonna need to explain Jet Board.

Jump! Jump!


Slide! Slide!

 

[CannonStreak]

Jump! Jump!


Slide! Slide!

Oh boy, plenty of Megaman fans that were traumatized by that are not going to like this.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

It just dawned on me that there isn't really anything stopping them from making the Mario Head from Mario Teaches Typing an assist trophy.

I didn't know where else to express this realization.

How they preserve Martinet's voice after updating the fighters to the new cast.

 

[The Prankster 16]

Crackpot Smash Ideas: Classic Mode now has a bunch of different minigames it randomly selects during its bonus round.

Monkey’s paw: There’s only one stage for each minigame. And the race to the finish one is the same one from Ultimate.

 

[NintenRob]

Jigglypuff will probably be cut one day. But the next Smash is absolutely the wrong time. Jigglypuff is more relevant than she has been in years and is decently prominent in Scarlet and Violet. Like, she's kinda set up to be the first wild tera Pokémon you come across. And of course she got her own Paradox Pokémon. I'd love to see a Scream Tail alt for Jigglypuff.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What if I add her back and cut Team Rocket? I’m pretty flexible with a lot of the cuts, I care more about who’s added. I’d rather not cut anyone if I could.

Jigglypuff and Zero Suit Samus where the more odd cuts in my opinion. I also don't stand behind the cuts of Toon Link and Incineroar. But realistic cuts altogether except for the first two.

Your roster is good. I like most newcomers too. Team Rocket is your personal pick and while I get it, I rather have an actual Pokemon as fighter than them. Meowth on his own is the better pick if we wanna go for a similar type of deal. Meowth might also make the cut of Jigglypuff more sensible, as many felt that since 64 the second Pokemon should've been Meowth (or Mewtwo).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Monkey’s paw: There’s only one stage for each minigame. And the race to the finish one is the same one from Ultimate.

Except for the Jetboard levels. Both Frost Man and Wily 2's segments are here, which means its the most likely minigame to show up.

 

[Folezicle Lives!]

It just dawned on me that there isn't really anything stopping them from making the Mario Head from Mario Teaches Typing an assist trophy.

I didn't know where else to express this realization.

Haunts me during sleep paralysis


I haven't played Emio The Smiling Man but Famicon Detective has a legacy. Is there character potential there? I see Phoenix Wright has a bit of a following and the point and click games haven't been represented in smash (not that its a a factor).

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I haven't played Emio The Smiling Man but Famicon Detective has a legacy. Is there character potential there? I see Phoenix Wright has a bit of a following and the point and click games haven't been represented in smash (not that its a a factor).

I don't know anything about Famicom Detective Club, but I know Ayumi Tachibana comes up from the series every so often since she was considered briefly for Melee.

 

[dream1ng]

Jigglypuff will probably be cut one day. But the next Smash is absolutely the wrong time. Jigglypuff is more relevant than she has been in years and is decently prominent in Scarlet and Violet. Like, she's kinda set up to be the first wild tera Pokémon you come across. And of course she got her own Paradox Pokémon. I'd love to see a Scream Tail alt for Jigglypuff.

I'm not sure that really alters her positioning in terms of priority. She's probably got better odds than Pichu and Incineroar, but how will it stack her up against Lucario, Greninja, Squirtle and Ivysaur? I mean, she might be ahead of the latter two, but that may have been true regardless of a Paradox form.

It's not nothing... but her competition itself are among the series' most prolific options, so even having this derivative form (which, frankly, more and more Pokemon get nowadays, especially gen 1) may not really move the needle for her much.

Not that she'll necessarily get cut - ultimately the biggest factor is how deep the cuts go - just... she's in a very competitive group of characters. It's the apex of Pokemon's cast.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I’ll just drop this roster in here.

 

[NintenRob]

I'm not sure that really alters her positioning in terms of priority. She's probably got better odds than Pichu and Incineroar, but how will it stack her up against Lucario, Greninja, Squirtle and Ivysaur? I mean, she might be ahead of the latter two, but that may have been true regardless of a Paradox form.

It's not nothing... but her competition itself are among the series' most prolific options, so even having this derivative form (which, frankly, more and more Pokemon get nowadays, especially gen 1) may not really move the needle for her much.

Not that she'll necessarily get cut - ultimately the biggest factor is how deep the cuts go - just... she's in a very competitive group of characters. It's the apex of Pokemon's cast.

I would personally put Jigglypuff above Mewtwo, Pichu and Incineroar in terms of likeliness but below Greninja and Lucario. With Pokémon Trainer there as a total wildcard

 

[dream1ng]

I would personally put Jigglypuff above Mewtwo, Pichu and Incineroar in terms of likeliness but below Greninja and Lucario. With Pokémon Trainer there as a total wildcard

Once Mewtwo was cut he subsequently became the most requested character, above options like Mega Man and to the point he was the series' first DLC character. He's also Mewtwo. He's not getting cut again.

 

[fogbadge]

I haven't played Emio The Smiling Man but Famicon Detective has a legacy. Is there character potential there? I see Phoenix Wright has a bit of a following and the point and click games haven't been represented in smash (not that its a a factor).

the main character and Ayumi could work. they're both skilled in martial arts so combining that with investitive abilities would make an interesting moveset

I’ll just drop this roster in here.
View attachment 397004

no offence but it looks like you googled most obvious smash newcomers

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I think it's kinda neat how not every fighter has an up-B that boosts them upwards, it's a shame they stopped after 64.

If more fighters did have up specials without height boosts, at least I wouldn't have to single Jiggs out.

Mental images aside though, how would you handle giving Jigglypuff a command grab, especially one that's a life steal in the source material? Would it act like Nosferatu?

Nosferatu is essentially how I imagined it working.

Also, Egg Throw. I mean, it does boost recovery, but like, not really?

It's provided a small height boost since Brawl. And I'd be fine with Jiggs just getting something that gives it a small height boost too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

RE: Star Fox

Personally, I kind of would like remakes of Star Fox Adventures and Star Fox Assault, as well as a new Star Fox game with Star Fox 2's RTS elements and a more cohesive story compared to Command.

My hot take: Adventures and Command where in my opinion better games than Star Fox 64. Assault also piqued my interesst way more back in the day (but I couldn't get it due to financial reasons same with games as DK Barrel Jet, Banjo-Tooie and Conker's Bad Fur Day).

 

[Folezicle Lives!]

I’ll just drop this roster in here.
View attachment 397004

Ooh i forgot Oatchi I like this pick

I don't know anything about Famicom Detective Club, but I know Ayumi Tachibana comes up from the series every so often since she was considered briefly for Melee.

Hmm maybe we could see a pistol in the moveset? I might be making an assumption but most detectives have pistols too. Ayumi might use one unsure.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Hmm maybe we could see a pistol in the moveset? I might be making an assumption but most detectives have pistols too. Ayumi might use one unsure.

I'm pretty sure this is the weapon she knows how to use

 

[fogbadge]

I'm pretty sure this is the weapon she knows how to use

it is

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, this discussion is definitely reinforcing why I don’t like the idea of cuts in general. If we actually scaled back to a 50 or 60 character roster, we’d likely lose a ton of fan favorites. I kept mine to the base 84 characters and still struggled to keep a lot of characters I really wanted to. If we want a bunch of newcomers, we likely need to make tough cuts to characters we’d rather not. I thought I at least had a somewhat logical approach of who gets cut and who stays but fans of those cut characters are always going to feel disappointed, even if we get a ton of cool characters in return.

With that being said, part of my goal for the roster was to add more female characters and more villains (or both at once in the cases of Jinx and Sarah Kerrigan, though they’re more antiheroes now). I tried to do some research of villains that could make for fun and unique Smash characters and I came up with Elfilis, E.M.M.I. and DJ Octavio for the base roster. None of these characters get a lot of attention so I think they’d all be fun surprises. Others I really wanted to add but couldn’t find space for were Medusa, Dr. Coyle, and Jena Anderson. They’d all be cool because they’re both female characters and villains themselves and all have cool designs. I’d have loved the Black Knight too but I wasn’t sure about adding an older character from an already represented Fire Emblem game.

For the DLC passes, I wanted to try to keep this going while at the same time expanding into more western characters I feel would be especially fitting for Smash while at the same time bringing something really unique.

I think there was one part of my roster idea that was lost in the shuffle. Several of the most popular cut veterans could be periodically brought back at a reduced price separate from the Fighter’s Passes, which focus on newcomers. I was thinking about $5 for a brand new character which comes with a stage and music and $2.50 for the veterans that just come with the character themselves. I know this is even more ambitious and unrealistic but whatever.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So honest question...

I'm currently making the third party poll. And new franchises are certainly a doozy.

What companies should I give their own section. I plan on having a general "other" section for things like indies and smaller companies.

Currently I have...

Konami
Sega
Capcom
Bandai-Namco
Square Enix
Microsoft
SNK
Disney
Sony
EA
Ubisoft
Valve
Koei Tecmo
Falcom
Atari
Take 2
Tencent
Riot Games
Netease

What else am I missing? Keep in mind, smaller companies like Atlas or Bethesda will be included with their owners, Sega and Microsoft.

 

[Will]

I'm pretty sure this is the weapon she knows how to use

Ayumi Tachibana: Anime Swordfighter?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Cuts will always suck but they’re unfortunately an inevitable factor for any fighting game that isn’t trying to go for “EVERYONE IS HERE!”

I’ve said it before but y’all don’t realize just how much Sakurai pampers the Smash players with how relatively few cuts he’s managed to do when compared to any other fighting game franchise. Like, the amount of cuts we’ve seen across all games in the series is lower than a single typical fighting game gets just from one sequel. The idea of “Everyone is Here!” in general is also incredibly rare to the point where I can think of only two other games that did it (MK Armaggedon and KoF 98).

Ultimate feels like the tipping point of that pampering and I doubt the devs will be able to maintain massive rosters for long, especially since Ultimate has shown that it comes at the cost of other beloved modes being either bastardized (All-Star), delayed (Stage Builder and Home-Run Contest) or gone entirely (anything with targets).

And yes, it’s possible for a fan favorite to be cut. If the devs have no time to bring back Ganondorf, they ain’t gonna delay the game for him. The only characters who are truly safe are Mario, Link and Pikachu because they’re just too big in Nintendo’s repertoire to be cut. Anyone else has a non-zero chance of not making it back. That’s just the harsh reality of things.

 

[fogbadge]

So honest question...

I'm currently making the third party poll. And new franchises are certainly a doozy.

What companies should I give their own section. I plan on having a general "other" section for things like indies and smaller companies.

Currently I have...

Konami
Sega
Capcom
Bandai-Namco
Square Enix
Microsoft
SNK
Disney
Sony
EA
Ubisoft
Valve
Koei Tecmo
Falcom
Atari
Take 2
Tencent
Riot Games
Netease

What else am I missing? Keep in mind, smaller companies like Atlas or Bethesda will be included with their owners, Sega and Microsoft.

well I would say if the lists are getting a little long you should have the smaller developers separately

 

[Guynamednelson]

The idea of “Everyone is Here!” in general is also incredibly rare to the point where I can think of only two other games that did it (MK Armaggedon and KoF 98)

There's also the Tekken Tag Tournament series which tries to be EIH but the first game lacks Marshall Law while the second lacks Roger Sr.

And neither has every single Jack model but I doubt people mind that.

 

[Kirbeh]

So honest question...

I'm currently making the third party poll. And new franchises are certainly a doozy.

What companies should I give their own section. I plan on having a general "other" section for things like indies and smaller companies.

Currently I have...

Konami
Sega
Capcom
Bandai-Namco
Square Enix
Microsoft
SNK
Disney
Sony
EA
Ubisoft
Valve
Koei Tecmo
Falcom
Atari
Take 2
Tencent
Riot Games
Netease

What else am I missing? Keep in mind, smaller companies like Atlas or Bethesda will be included with their owners, Sega and Microsoft.

I guess Kadokawa for FromSoft, Spike Chunsoft and Acquire.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I guess Kadokawa for FromSoft, Spike Chunsoft and Acquire.

We should probably wait to see if the acquisition comes through for that one

 

[Kirbeh]

We should probably wait to see if the acquisition comes through for that one

I'm hoping it doesn't but I expect that it will tbh

 

[Gengar84]

Cuts will always suck but they’re unfortunately an inevitable factor for any fighting game that isn’t trying to go for “EVERYONE IS HERE!”

I’ve said it before but y’all don’t realize just how much Sakurai pampers the Smash players with how relatively few cuts he’s managed to do when compared to any other fighting game franchise. Like, the amount of cuts we’ve seen across all games in the series is lower than a single typical fighting game gets just from one sequel. The idea of “Everyone is Here!” in general is also incredibly rare to the point where I can think of only two other games that did it (MK Armaggedon and KoF 98).

Ultimate feels like the tipping point of that pampering and I doubt the devs will be able to maintain massive rosters for long, especially since Ultimate has shown that it comes at the cost of other beloved modes being either bastardized (All-Star), delayed (Stage Builder and Home-Run Contest) or gone entirely (anything with targets).

And yes, it’s possible for a fan favorite to be cut. If the devs have no time to bring back Ganondorf, they ain’t gonna delay the game for him. The only characters who are truly safe are Mario, Link and Pikachu because they’re just too big in Nintendo’s repertoire to be cut. Anyone else has a non-zero chance of not making it back. That’s just the harsh reality of things.

Mortal Kombat Trilogy on the PS1 and N64 also did it but that was pretty early in the franchise’s life I’m not sure if you want to count it. Killer Instinct 2013 brought every character back once all the DLC was out but started with a much smaller roster.

 

[Will]

The only characters who are truly safe are Mario, Link and Pikachu because they’re just too big in Nintendo’s repertoire to be cut. Anyone else has a non-zero chance of not making it back. That’s just the harsh reality of things.

You think a father would let his children die?

 

[dream1ng]

So honest question...

I'm currently making the third party poll. And new franchises are certainly a doozy.

What companies should I give their own section. I plan on having a general "other" section for things like indies and smaller companies.

Currently I have...

Konami
Sega
Capcom
Bandai-Namco
Square Enix
Microsoft
SNK
Disney
Sony
EA
Ubisoft
Valve
Koei Tecmo
Falcom
Atari
Take 2
Tencent
Riot Games
Netease

What else am I missing? Keep in mind, smaller companies like Atlas or Bethesda will be included with their owners, Sega and Microsoft.

Pretty sure Tencent owns Riot