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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SMAASH! Puppy

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Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
then throw in the possibility of playing copyrighted music in there...
Technically, all the music is copyrighted. It's just that the more music you include, the more different copyright holders become involved, and the more likely one is to shut down any videos of the tournament. I think at one point TOs had problems with SquareEnix, and people seemed genuinely concerned that they'd have to ban Hollow Bastion because of Disney (though Disney never did anything).
 

Shinuto

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Whatever idea couldn't make it into Smash Bros due to time constraints, they might save it for the next one.
K.O Assist Trophies, Final Smash Meter, Mid air charging specials, and the killing blow zoom effect didn't appear until Ultimate.
No the mid air charge was only a thing for Samus in ultimate. WFT could charge on mid air in smash 4.
 

BrawlX10

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Speaking of stages I hope we get some better Animal Crossing stages. Now I do enjoy the stages we have but we have three and two of them are practically the same stage. Let’s fight on Tom Nook’s Store or a version of the Museum styled like Luigi’s Mansion
The museum from NH i think it's a more likely stage than people think, tbh, it's one of the most iconic locations in the series after all.

As for Kingdom Hearts, i hope KH gets a new stage if Sora returns in the base game, i like Hollow Bastion, but i'd like a more interesting stage gameplay-wise. I think Twilight Town is probably next in-line or maybe even Keyblade Keyblade Graveyard or Scala ad Caelum
.
 

Pupp135

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I've been wondering, what would reasonably be the size of the next roster if the next Smash is a normal entry (no Everyone is Here Deluxe and no "reboot") that focused on reworking some old fighters, adding new (and old) modes, includes newcomers, and obviously cuts some characters. Basically like the jump from Melee to Brawl and Brawl to Sm4sh. Maybe 60-ish characters? Brawl had around 40 characters if you include the transformations separately and Sm4sh around 50 in the base roster, so maybe it would scale upwards.
Currently, I’m of the mindset that the roster will be 60-70 fighters before echoes are included (pretty much close to or even at base Ultimate’s size) because Ultimate brought back 56 non-echoes and added 13 more, and I assume that assets will be reused to some degree similar to how For and Ultimate reused assets from their predecessors. In the end, I think 50-55 veterans and 10-15 newcomers before echoes seems like a reasonable assumption.

If you were to pick 5 new Mario Kart tracks to add as stages, which ones would you pick?

Current existing stages:
  • DS Figure 8 Circuit
  • 3Ds Rainbow Road
  • WiiU Mario Circuit
DS Waluigi Pinball: I feel like this is a quintessential Waluigi thing.
DS Tick Tock Clock: I think this is a cool DS stage, and I think you could make an interesting SSB stage out of this.
Wii Maple Treeway: I thought about Coconut Mall, but the Rainbow Galleria idea also captivated my interest.
7 Music Park: Another interesting concept to incorporate into SSB.
8 Bowser’s Castle: A Bowser’s Castle stage is something that fans want, and I could see Nintendo getting a two birds one stone outcome here by adding a Bowser’s Castle and a Mario Kart stage.

So, when it comes to characters, every Smash game as far as I've seen has some popular/highly speculated characters which are 'now or never' in regards to timing and being included, meaning that if they ever get in it is in that particular Smash otherwise their chances quickly sail away due to their game being part of the past, due to being in a series with a revolving cast etc.

For Smash 6, outside of the Pokemon and Fire Emblem speculations, which characters that are very often brought up do you think are in a 'it's now or never' situation in regards to getting in? Like if they don't get in in Smash 6 they will probably never will?
Outside of flavor of the month fighters, I feel like the Tom Nook probably fits this situation the best. Tom Nook feels like Toad, Eevee, or Meowth where the character has the legacy to feel like a logical choice in a Nintendo/gaming crossover, and it‘s really Sakurai’s decision if he finds Tom interesting enough to add. In the cases of For and Ultimate, we respectively gained the player character in the form of Villager and the most popular NPC with Isabelle. Now that these two are in, Tom would be the most prominent choice to add next from Animal Crossing, and his inclusion will really hinge on Sakurai’s interest.

If Tom gets passed up next game regardless of a different Animal Crossing fighter joins, Sakurai/developers just may not find Tom Nook as a high priority fighter.

There is also a 3rd Mall stage option

Rainbow Galleria

Honestly, the one Super Mario stage that I would love to have is a Mario Party stage. From Jamboree, Rainbow Galleria is my favorite board, but an older board like Peach’s Birthday Cake, Space Land, Horror Land, Waluigi Island, or Sweet Dream would also be cool to see. Also, a booksquirm stage could be fun to play on.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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The museum from NH i think it's a more likely stage than people think, tbh, it's one of the most iconic locations in the series after all.

As for Kingdom Hearts, i hope KH gets a new stage if Sora returns in the base game, i like Hollow Bastion, but i'd like a more interesting stage gameplay-wise. I think Twilight Town is probably next in-line or maybe even Keyblade Keyblade Graveyard or Scala ad Caelum
.
I wanted traverse town tbh, it's a cool night time cityscape that they frequently return too throughout the series.


But i get going with Hollow bastion since it's more important to the plot.
 

Gengar84

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For me, part of the fun of Smash Bros. is the platforming aspect of combat. If too many stages end up playing the same with really basic layouts, it really takes a lot of the appeal out for me. I know people talk about how adding fourth party characters would feel like Smash has lost its soul, but I feel even more strongly in that regard if Smash turns into just Battlefield variants with different backgrounds and music. The diverse stage layouts are part of what separates platform fighters like Smash from more traditional fighting games.
 
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MBRedboy31

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I think its the 2D stages that cause some differences in gameplay such as Flat Zone X because of the z-axis.
Wouldn’t this just be another factor in counterpicking? Why ban instead of finding ways to use the stage differences to their advantage?

Fun fact: Steve uses different tools for mining different surfaces in omega/battlefield forms, even though all of them use the same item pool, so it’s to Steve’s advantage to pick a stage that uses shovels to avoid damaging tools they also attack with. Also, Omega/Battlefield Great Cave Offensive has different tool types for the left and right sides of the stage, since one side is grassy and the other is rocky!
 

Guynamednelson

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Wouldn’t this just be another factor in counterpicking? Why ban instead of finding ways to use the stage differences to their advantage?
I think there were a few cases where Smash 4 tournaments tried to treat walled Omega stages as a separate stage from floating platform ones, so wall jumpers could counterpick to a walled Omega form.

Obviously SSBU can't have that with it attempting to homogenize all the BFs/Omegas.
 
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fogbadge

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The museum from NH i think it's a more likely stage than people think, tbh, it's one of the most iconic locations in the series after all.

As for Kingdom Hearts, i hope KH gets a new stage if Sora returns in the base game, i like Hollow Bastion, but i'd like a more interesting stage gameplay-wise. I think Twilight Town is probably next in-line or maybe even Keyblade Keyblade Graveyard or Scala ad Caelum
.
I'd love to fight on top of the twilight town train station
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Honestly, I don't think Forgotten Land necessarily needs to be at the forefront of the next Smash's inclusion process. In fact, if Forgotten Land becomes the next hot thing in Smash without any other alterations to Kirby's Smash representation, that's going to disappoint me.

And even then, Wondaria Remains is right there in terms of original FL stages. Kirby's already indulged in mall levels beforehand.
I mean I would think Forgotten Land would be the "next hot thing" in Smash because it's the most recent game that's not a remake and is now the highest selling game in the series. I don't really care where the stage is tbh, I've spoken about hoping for Lab Discovera in the past despite doubts they'd use an endgame area (and saying Kirby's indulged in malls before is moot when we're talking about Smash, which hasn't had a stage from Kirby 64 either, speaking on the other mall), I just want a Kirby stage that's not from a game that came out 30 years ago that every other stage has been from lol

I'd like for Bandana Dee to be here too, but I don't expect any of the other three to change very much outside of like maybe Meta Knight's Final Smash? Apparently that move is based on a move Meta Knight has as a boss in Star Allies and Forgotten Land named Upper Calibur though, so I guess it works but like why the random four wing thing, I don't think Meta Knight's ever done that lmao
 
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Gorgonzales

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After watching a video of Rivals 2...how do you guys feel if Smash 6 victory screens happened on the stage rather than in a separate screen?
View attachment 399878
It's a side-grade. I like the original Victory screen stage in Ultimate, but it would be also cool to see the current stages from different angles.
 

Oracle Link

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I mean I would think Forgotten Land would be the "next hot thing" in Smash because it's the most recent game that's not a remake and is now the highest selling game in the series. I don't really care where the stage is tbh (and saying Kirby's indulged in malls before is moot when we're talking about Smash, which hasn't had a stage from Kirby 64 either, speaking on the other mall), I just want a Kirby stage that's not from a game that came out 30 years ago that every other stage has been from lol

I'd like for Bandana Dee to be here too, but I don't expect any of the other three to change very much outside of like maybe Meta Knight's Final Smash? Apparently that move is based on a move Meta Knight has as a boss in Star Allies and Forgotten Land named Upper Calibur though, so I guess it works but like why the random four wing thing, I don't think Meta Knight's ever done that lmao
No the new meta knight final smash is just one of those weird sakurai isms again! Like it looks almost nothing like upper caliber and was changed the moment after the previous final smash (galaxia darkness) became canon!

And you guys wonder why i disagree with sakurais stand on proportions! Like sakurai made donkey kong into a normal gorilla and made his own bowser oc!
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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No the new meta knight final smash is just one of those weird sakurai isms again! Like it looks almost nothing like upper caliber and was changed the moment after the previous final smash (galaxia darkness) became canon!
I mean...



It doesn't have the lightning effect Meta Knight uses to start the attack, but it's definitely a midair rapid slash from all angles that was given a finisher at the end, so...
 

Dukefire

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I mean...



It doesn't have the lightning effect Meta Knight uses to start the attack, but it's definitely a midair rapid slash from all angles that was given a finisher at the end, so...
I can see the Kirby games gains certain mechanics and attacks from smash bros ever since Amazing Mirror. Vice versa for each new Smash Bros.
 
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Thegameandwatch

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I mean...



It doesn't have the lightning effect Meta Knight uses to start the attack, but it's definitely a midair rapid slash from all angles that was given a finisher at the end, so...
If it’s based on that attack then maybe it’s an upgraded interpretation like how Incineroar’s Final Smash is supposedly an upgraded version of its Z-Move.
 

SharkLord

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I mean...



It doesn't have the lightning effect Meta Knight uses to start the attack, but it's definitely a midair rapid slash from all angles that was given a finisher at the end, so...
At the very least, I hope Smash 6 goes with a more accurate Upper Calibur. Ultimate's sounds and animation feels weightless, and lacks the same impact.

Also, I've said this before but Kirby!Meta Knight actually has more dynamic and distinct moves than Smash!Meta Knight, who just has a lot of mad flailing. I can understand why he turned out the way he did, since a lot of the modern animations were only codified in RtDL, but Smash MK just feels so... sauceless, y'know?
 

Kirbeh

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Regarding stages, the pipedream for me is to completely do away with FD/BF forms and instead have unique competitive versions of every stage* (or at least most stages, as I imagine the flattened 2D ones wouldn't work for this.)

There can and probably would still be a few duplicate or samey layouts here and there but the key is to add actual variety. Among these, the competitive community would probably still find reasons to ban a chunk of them but if we can actually have a game with a dozen+ stages people actually play on in comp. I'd be pretty happy.
 

BrawlX10

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What Mii Costumes, Assist Trophies and Pokemon do you think are likely for the next game?

For Pokeballs i think Falinks, Dracovish, Woloo and some Paradox Pokemon are pretty likely.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Considering I don't play Ultimate and only watch competitive matches.....I wasn't even aware Meta Knight got a new Final Smash.
The silliest part is that he didn't even need it. The old one was perfectly fine with Ultimate's vision for Final Smashes.

However, putting on my tinfoil hat for a moment, I don't think it's a coincidence that he changed it right after the old one saw use in a mainline Kirby game with Planet Robobot.
 

Kirby Dragons

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What Mii Costumes, Assist Trophies and Pokemon do you think are likely for the next game?
IDK about costumes or ATs, cause those could be anybody. But for Pokemon, I'm expecting at least a couple unevolved Generation 8 and 9 starters, Koraidon, Miraidon, some paradoxes like Great Tusk and Iron Treads, and some Hisuian Pokemon like Kleavor and Zoroark.
 

Ivander

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The silliest part is that he didn't even need it. The old one was perfectly fine with Ultimate's vision for Final Smashes.

However, putting on my tinfoil hat for a moment, I don't think it's a coincidence that he changed it right after the old one saw use in a mainline Kirby game with Planet Robobot.
I really don't think it's a vendetta as much as people want to believe. Remember that he switched out Cook Kirby(his own creation) for Ultra Sword Kirby(not his own) and originally had Dedede with original Final Smashes in Smash Brawl and 4, but put in Masked Dedede, which is arguably not his own due to originating in a remake of Super Star, for Ultimate.

If anything, I would say part of the reason for his Final Smash being changed was because in Brawl and Smash 4, his Final Smash would outright blacken the screen(ala Nightmare Assist Trophy) and prevent players who weren't caught by Meta Knight from seeing the game for a bit until his FS was finished, which could be considered too disruptive.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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What Mii Costumes, Assist Trophies and Pokemon do you think are likely for the next game?

For Pokeballs i think Falinks, Dracovish, Woloo and some Paradox Pokemon are pretty likely.
Armarouge and Ceruledge Pokeballs alongside Tinkaton

If the next smash continues this "any kind of videogame character can get some representation" kind of angle that Ultimate had i can see someone like Viewtiful Joe getting a mii costume since it fits the proportions perfectly.

I can't really think of what they would add for new assists.
 

Perkilator

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  • Poké Balls
    • Cramorant
    • Toxtricity
    • Centiskorch
    • Sirfetch’d
    • Dragapult
    • Zacian
    • Zamazenta
    • Kleavor
    • Pawmot
    • Tinkaton (if not playable)
    • Clodsire
  • Assist Trophies
    • King Bob-omb
    • Cranky Kong
    • Master Kohga
    • E.M.M.I.
    • Adeleine
    • Polar Bear
    • Eggplant Wizard
    • Bulborb
    • Ethel
    • Dr. Eggman
    • Jack Frost
    • Opa Opa
    • M. Bison
    • Red Arremer
  • Mii Costumes
    • Someone from Fortnite
    • Ulala
 

Oracle Link

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Im just gonna mutter the coldest take ever!
Whatever role the Octoroks play next game be it Spirit, At or anything really!
it should be like one of the small red 2d ones right?
I mean enjoy 3d zeldas more if you want but 3d zeldas are definded by bokoblins and the like while in 2d the Octorok remains very Important!
1000000625.png

Also they are cute!
And Yes pick whatever smol 2d version you prefer! 2d Represent!
 

BrawlX10

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Im just gonna mutter the coldest take ever!
Whatever role the Octoroks play next game be it Spirit, At or anything really!
it should be like one of the small red 2d ones right?
I mean enjoy 3d zeldas more if you want but 3d zeldas are definded by bokoblins and the like while in 2d the Octorok remains very Important!
View attachment 399883
Also they are cute!
And Yes pick whatever smol 2d version you prefer! 2d Represent!
I think he could be an assist trophy, we have characters like chain chomp AT, after all.
 

SharkLord

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I'm thinking about characters who I'd want to get an actual revamp - Not just an attitude adjustment or a couple new moves, but a legit revamp. So far, my list is something like this:
  1. :ultsamus: as she is now is kinda bland. Maybe she could get projectile normals like Mega Man, maybe not. Regardless, Samus has become progressively more agile and aggressive, ironically closer to Zero Suit Samus than Power Suit Samus. Her specials can stay mostly the same, at least, but her base kit needs a rework.
  2. On that note, :ultdarksamus: is massive wasted opportunity. She actually does have equivalents to Samus' specials, albeit altered in function more than Smash does (A rapid-fire Shrapnel Beam, a Boost Ball dash, and a Screw Attack dive bomb), but she could do so much more than Samus' normals, what withher Phazon powers. Ironically, though, the floaty mechanics and flamethrower attacks kinda suit her.
  3. :ultkirby: doesn't need a full rework, and dumping a ton of copy abilities in there can easily make him overly cluttered. Plus, his normals are pretty intuitive for new players. That said, I don't think it would hurt to throw in a couple elemental abilities, like Fire's breath attack or Spark's thunder dome. I feel like those could flow a bit better than just .
  4. :ultzelda:is interesting. Her Smash kit is basically made up from scratch... but what would a canon-compliant Zelda even look like? Her most important roles are either A: In an alternate form or personality for most of her screentime (Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Spirit Tracks), literally dead (Also Spirit Tracks), or using abilities made up for that incarnation (BotW's time magic, Sheikah tech, and I believe most of her light god powers, and EoW's Tri Rod). The only constants are the Light Arrows (Which are usually given to Link anyways) and some vaguely-defined light magic. We could make an original moveset with the Light Arrows, maybe? That'd be fun to see.
    1. EoW Zelda is worth highlighting, because while she's not really an accurate representation of Zelda as a whole, it's still the first time she's been the main character since the CD-i games, which are, uh... The CD-i games. Plus, it'd be cool to see how EoW Zelda really looks outside of the littlle minifigure artstyle. At the very least, we could rework the Phantom into a Tri Rod special.
  5. :ultganondorf: is uh. Y'know. A clone of a guy from another series entirely, using a fighting style completely different from his game incarnation. Plus, Tears of the Kingdom gave us our first incarnation of Ganondorf in a mainline game since Twilight Princess, back in 2005. I think a rework is pretty overdue.
  6. :ultmetaknight:, as I've said before, feels weak and weightless in Smash, while his home series has given him all sorts of cool and dynamic moves. I'd really like to see what a Meta Knight based on Star Allies and Forgotten Land could do.
  7. :ultwario:. Why is Wario? Wario Land has him be a hard-hitting, mobile brawler. Wario Ware has him be a greedy, lazy goofball. Smash primarily bases him on neither, instead drawing from promo materials above all else. I dunno, that's just a weird way of doing things. Not to mention really friggin' gross.
  8. :ultlucario: is in a similar boat; His attacks are boring, his kit is weak, and he's doomed to a forgettable low-tier status. Let's fix that.
  9. :ultsonic:... Hoo boy, my man's been reduced to a weight goofball mascot that only kinda-sorta fits him. Sonic Battle and Sonic Frontiers have given Sonic some slick, flashy attacks that would be a blast in Smash. Why can't we do that instead?
  10. If :ultrobinf: comes back, a rework would be nice. Breakable weapons are a fun concept, but the way they're set up makes them feel rather handicapped. that said robin isnt on the roster im making so i have nothing more to say
  11. :ultlittlemac: mainly needs good aerials and better air movement. In a game like Smash, having a bad air game is a death sentence. I see him being reworked into being fast and hard-hitting, but with slow startup on his best attacks and poor reach overall, forcing him to weave around attacks and look for a good opening. Also, most people seem to agree that the Star Punches would work better than the Power Meter.
  12. :ultshulk: in Xenoblade is actually a pretty fast guy, much unlike the slow and clunky attacks he has in Smash. His Monado Arts don't work that way in Xenoblade, either. He actually does have a could other buffs in Monado Armour and Enchant, but the rest of his Arts are primarily attacks and debuffs.
  13. I don't like :ultryu:'s moveset. The quarter-circles are fine, but they feel kinda weird to me, since Smash's whole deal is that everyone has the same control scheme to make them easier to play. I dunno, maybe we can give everyone else quarter-circles on the side. I cannot defend the pressure-sensitive buttons, however. Those are tricky to input right and make his moveset feel unecessarily bloated. I won't be sad to see them go. Oh, and we can take his jump off that fixed arc, it doesn't work well in Smash.
  14. :ultken: is the same as Ryu; Motion inputs are a little jarring but still easy enough to pull off, but pressure-sensitive buttons feel unecessary. Ironically, the reworks I'd want for Ken and Ryu would leave less work rather than more, since we're removing some moves.
  15. If :ultbyleth: remains our Three Houses character, which is the most realistic option, I wish they'd go all-in on the Sword of the Creator and the Divine Pulse. The Relics are fun to land hits with, but sharing the moveset leaves each weapon with limited, simplistic moves. Like with Hero, it feels like Sakurai was overcompensating while trying to appease people who complained about Too Many Swordfighters.
  16. :ulthero: is going to be controversial, but I don't think he should be the designated Wacky RNG Character. Hero in Dragon Quest is a fairly straigtforward magic knight, and that's cool enough on it's own. Plus, a few of their moves can't be learned by any Hero in Smash. I dunno, I feel like Sakurai was afraid Smash fans would react negatively to another swordfighter and overcompensated trying to make them unique
  17. :ultsora: doesn't need a rework - His kit is perfectly servicable for a KH1-based moveset - But the later games give him a lot of crazy tools that would be really cool in Smash. They're not strictly necessary, but they'd be nice.
 

Perkilator

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Im just gonna mutter the coldest take ever!
Whatever role the Octoroks play next game be it Spirit, At or anything really!
it should be like one of the small red 2d ones right?
I mean enjoy 3d zeldas more if you want but 3d zeldas are definded by bokoblins and the like while in 2d the Octorok remains very Important!
View attachment 399883
Also they are cute!
And Yes pick whatever smol 2d version you prefer! 2d Represent!
I mean, you can probably put in the Skyward Sword Octorok as an item. It could be one where you pull it out with the grass on its head, and then use it as a projectile weapon that shoots rocks.

IMG_3692.png
 
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