Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hydreigonfan01]

When the next Smash game is announced and we're in the character announcements period, they should reveal Chun-Li on International Woman's Day. It would make sense to reveal one of the most iconic female video game characters of all-time on a day like that.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Whatever role the Octoroks play next game be it Spirit, At or anything really!
it should be like one of the small red 2d ones right?

Yeah, I never liked OoT+ Octoroks.

I think he could be an assist trophy, we have characters like chain chomp AT, after all.

AT, stage hazard, Smash Run enemy

 

[Dukefire]

So, I played Smash Tour....a weird way to have a board game fun. I prefer Smash Run as it more of scramble to gain stats rather than rolling a spinner to gain stats, items and fighters. Still, an interesting concept to say.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

doesn't need a full rework, and dumping a ton of copy abilities in there can easily make him overly cluttered. Plus, his normals are pretty intuitive for new players. That said, I don't think it would hurt to throw in a couple elemental abilities, like Fire's breath attack or Spark's thunder dome. I feel like those could flow a bit better than just .

I think Kirby mainly needs tweaks to make him actually good, and one of the things that I'd like to see looked at are his special moves. Final Cutter, Stone, Inhale, and Hammer are iconic, but offer little to no utility at higher skill levels. Of them, I think Final Cutter is the only one that's at all practical, and that's just because it's his recovery.

I have a sneaking suspicion this is because of Copy Abilities, but there has to be a way to work around that.

is interesting. Her Smash kit is basically made up from scratch... but what would a canon-compliant Zelda even look like? Her most important roles are either A: In an alternate form or personality for most of her screentime (Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Spirit Tracks), literally dead (Also Spirit Tracks), or using abilities made up for that incarnation (BotW's time magic, Sheikah tech, and I believe most of her light god powers, and EoW's Tri Rod). The only constants are the Light Arrows (Which are usually given to Link anyways) and some vaguely-defined light magic. We could make an original moveset with the Light Arrows, maybe? That'd be fun to see.

1. EoW Zelda is worth highlighting, because while she's not really an accurate representation of Zelda as a whole, it's still the first time she's been the main character since the CD-i games, which are, uh... The CD-i games. Plus, it'd be cool to see how EoW Zelda really looks outside of the littlle minifigure artstyle. At the very least, we could rework the Phantom into a Tri Rod special.

Like with Kirby, I mainly want her kit to work properly. She's a character defined by hard reads, but doesn't have anything other than Phantom to condition opponents with. One idea I've had is to move Nayru's Love to her parry, and give her Arrows of Light, which act as a sniper weapon. Then, change Din's Fire to be a trap move that hovers in place when you let go of the button instead of exploding. After that it detonates on command. If you hit the undetonated fire with a Light Arrow, it consumes the fire, and sends the arrow at the nearest opponent.

I don't think that would fix all her problems, but it would be cool.

mainly needs good aerials and better air movement. In a game like Smash, having a bad air game is a death sentence. I see him being reworked into being fast and hard-hitting, but with slow startup on his best attacks and poor reach overall, forcing him to weave around attacks and look for a good opening. Also, most people seem to agree that the Star Punches would work better than the Power Meter.

I'm a big proponent of not removing characters' gimmicks because they define their character's identity in Super Smash Bros. This extends to Hero and Byleth as well despite their gimmicks being misplaced in a lot of people's opinions, but I don't really have much to say about them that I haven't already very recently. For Little Mac, I think he needs an improved ground game (it is currently polarizing, but compared to others, his ground kit lacks utility in certain areas), and a way for him to get onto platforms. He should never get good aerials. If need be, he could be given medeocre aerials to help him play around platforms, but they should never be a major part of his gameplan.

I think what probably should be done is that his standing jump height should be increased so that he can land on most platforms without burning his double jump, even if only just. He still would have to play around high platforms like the ones on Battlefield and Town & City strangely, but this should give him the ability to do so at all.

in Xenoblade is actually a pretty fast guy, much unlike the slow and clunky attacks he has in Smash. His Monado Arts don't work that way in Xenoblade, either. He actually does have a could other buffs in Monado Armour and Enchant, but the rest of his Arts are primarily attacks and debuffs.

I've spoken at length at how I believe that his Monado Arts are fine in concept, and why it makes sense that they did it this way a couple times before, but on actually fixing Shulk's kit, I think the main thing is that the Monado Arts need to alter his gameplan a bit more intentionally than just boosting his stats:

• Smash is for K.O.ing, and it does do that, so that's fine.
• Buster is for damage, so it should give him a higher combo ability. Making him do so little knockback that he can be negative on hit is silly, so the damage and knockback reduction should be normalized a bit, and his frame data should improve here to aid in the combos.
• Speed is for mobility, so it should give him better approach or whiff punish options.
• Shield is for defense, so instead of just making him go nowhere on hit (and dying instantly to Kazuya), it should give him better defensive options like turning Air Slash into a DP among other things.
• Jump is for recovery, and it does do that, so I guess it's fine. I would like to see some utility beyond that though.

I also think Vision could be more interesting as a counter, but that wouldn't change a whole lot overall.

1. I don't like 's moveset. The quarter-circles are fine, but they feel kinda weird to me, since Smash's whole deal is that everyone has the same control scheme to make them easier to play. I dunno, maybe we can give everyone else quarter-circles on the side. I cannot defend the pressure-sensitive buttons, however. Those are tricky to input right and make his moveset feel unecessarily bloated. I won't be sad to see them go. Oh, and we can take his jump off that fixed arc, it doesn't work well in Smash.
2. is the same as Ryu; Motion inputs are a little jarring but still easy enough to pull off, but pressure-sensitive buttons feel unecessary. Ironically, the reworks I'd want for Ken and Ryu would leave less work rather than more, since we're removing some moves.

I say keep the extra moves, but give players a choice between Smash and Traditional controls: Smash controls are as they are now, Traditional controls give their heavy normals to the grab button (shield + attack is still a grab input, so you wouldn't be removing the option). Also, the FGC characters might benefit from having motion inputs mapped to only the special move button to avoid misinputs, with the exception of Ken's command normals, which should probably be the opposite.

Other than that, I kind of think they should stay the same. I don't believe their jump arcs are fixed so much as they have poor air exceleration. Simon, Richter, and oddly, Snake have this distinction as well. I think the main difference between them and Ryu and Ken is that they're all zoners, but with their high power, I think committing to aerial approaches is a fair weakness to have, and is an interesting way to ground their playstyles without just making their air game bad.

 

[Lionfranky]

Which characters do you think would belong to "Playable Fighter or Nothing" Category?

For me...

Master Chief
Lara Croft

As time passed, I am not too sure about putting Crash here unlike last time...

 

[Louie G.]

So I come back to this topic every few weeks, but out the first party prospects for next Smash it may be the one I find most compelling. The battle for the unique Splatoon newcomer space, which to me is between the Squid Sisters and Off the Hook. Over time I grow more confident in this happening, but I continue to battle myself on which of the two reigns supreme.

I've made it clear by now that my preference is for Pearl and Marina to join the battle. Outside of my own biased stance on the matter, they've proven to be the most popular idol group and offer the more distinct designs and moveset potential (via their favorite weapons). But more and more lately I'm feeling like the Squid Sisters have the edge, even if they feel a lot less exciting. Looks like I wrote up quite a bit so bear with me.

Their lack of those dynamic traits is arguably what makes them more realistic to me. Consider that Callie and Marie effectively use the same model with a different coat of paint (see: Pyra and Mythra), compared to Marina and Pearl needing to be rigged as entirely different characters. If we're operating on the idea that they would be a duo, not unlike Ice Climbers, two near identical models who share some animations 1:1 feels more practical for obvious reasons. If Pearl and Marina were to perform the same action, if someone like Isabelle is any indication vs Villager's foundation, they'd largely need to be animated from scratch given their clear differences in proportion. How much is the team willing to go above and beyond with this concept, and to what advantage?

Personally I think the hook (lol) for an idol team would be leaning into their shared dance choreography to emphasize team synergy. I think if they take more of the 'idol' side of their moveset into account rather than the more traditional combat / arsenal focus, with dances and stray musical attacks as the ground work with some weapon based attacks to round it out, both sets of characters can accomplish this goal equally well. And although I'd argue Pearl / Marina better emphasize their respective strengths and weaknesses through design, it may get the idol synergy across better to work with characters more intrinsically similar to one another. And when we weigh out their perfect series attendance, prominence in the main campaigns and so forth, Squid Sisters just seem like the obvious first place your mind would go. Maybe it would be wise not to overthink it?

Callie and Marie's 'favorite weapons' are IMO not a great fit for Smash. Inkling already uses Callie's favorite weapon in the Roller, and Marie's Sniper just seems like it would be limited in creating a moveset. Pearl's Dualies and Marina's Splatbrella are inspired, and get to represent Splatoon 2's untapped crop of weapon types. But to play devil's advocate - Callie and Marie can use any weapons they want, really. I put a lot of stock in this "favorite weapons" thing to convey to people that there is some grounds for how these characters may fight, but at the end of the day I feel like it could be very flexible. Marie's Sniper affinity was established back in Splatoon 1, but as of Splatoon 2 she kind of gets to be associated with Splatbrellas on account of her kimono outfit. And as Agents, we can just assume they have the experience to wield any weapon that you can throughout the campaign. They can certainly take some liberties within the bubble of each idol's respective personality and archetype, without it being jarring. At the end of the day, it may not be a make or break obstacle. And it's possible that, similarly to Inkling, they can whip out more than one kind of weapon anyway.

<--- Callie using a Splatling, Marie with her Splatbrella

Fun side note, it seems like Sakurai has some familiarity / appreciation for the idol / j-pop scene as well. Recently he did an interview with one of Perfume's members, Nocchi. I obviously wouldn't present this as any kind of 'evidence' but it helps validate the idea that Sakurai wouldn't struggle to craft a character around this culture. Also, check out Perfume if you haven't, they're pretty cool.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

is in a similar boat; His attacks are boring, his kit is weak, and he's doomed to a forgettable low-tier status. Let's fix that.

One change I would make that isn’t Aura is probably improving his ground moves since they are mediocre compared to his aerials. An example is how jab is too slow to have much utility while being too weak to be a kill option for even maximum Aura. Also doesn’t connect well at that point.

If it’s Aura then I would make it so that it only effects kill moves (smash attacks, back air) and specials.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Which characters do you think would belong to "Playable Fighter or Nothing" Category?

For me...

Master Chief
Lara Croft

As time passed, I am not too sure about putting Crash here unlike last time...

Why are you not sure about Crash now?

 

[ninjahmos]

If we ever get more Sonic music for the next game, they probably won't do it, but I'd love to hear a Smash remix of this:

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

If we ever get more Sonic music for the next game, they probably won't do it, but I'd love to hear a Smash remix of this:

If there's any music I want in Smash from the Sonic series, it would be these two

 

[Goombaic]

The battle for the unique Splatoon newcomer space, which to me is between the Squid Sisters and Off the Hook.

I doubt that they would do a true duo fighter for Splatoon. To me the idea of an idol fighter doesn't really need both of them working in tandem. I think Callie with Marie as an echo (or vice versa) would be the way to go for the unique Splatoon newcomer IF the idea is to have an idol fighter moveset that's mostly dancing and posing with very few weapons. Otherwise, Marina with the Pearl drone and a bunch of tech, all the way.

I'm also a believer that a unique Octoling/Agent 8, although unlikely and a bit unnecessary, can happen. There's still a handful of weapons that could be added to Smash. Making the Splatana the Octoling's default weapon would also be more than enough to make them completely different to the Inkling.

 

[Louie G.]

To me the idea of an idol fighter doesn't really need both of them working in tandem.

Do they "need" to be a team? I guess not, but I think it accentuates the concept. Because teamwork is a fundamental part of... well, being in a band / idol troupe, or anything of that nature. Synchronized dances are a major part of putting on that performance, and is effectively what you see these two doing all the time. Sure, you can just have Callie strike some poses on her own. But conveying the idea of harmony between bandmates is something that better emphasizes their "theme". I don't see why a duo is so out of the question here when these characters pretty much exist within the same sentence - their identities are firmly reliant on one another, where you admit here it's unlikely that one would be added without the other to begin with.

My goal is to get in the mind of the "why" and not just the "how". Sakurai works in character "themes'. What is the most compelling part about Callie and Marie? In my eyes, it's their synergy that would inspire the most creative path forward. Sakurai seems to be interested in revisiting the concept of a duo character as well, if the history of scrapped fighters through Diddy / Dixie, Chorus Kids and Rex / Pyra are anything to go by. All of which have their own difficulties that I feel are not shared by Squid Sisters on Switch 2 hardware. Wii and 3DS tech difficulties no longer exist and Splatoon characters are far more simplistic than the nightmare of polygons that are Xenoblade characters. Their big toony heads read better from a distance, too.

Also, admittedly, I'm very disinterested in the Pearl drone concept. It's a disservice to Pearl who should really be able to fight on her own if they bother to implement Off the Hook at all, and kinda feels like a re-tread of what Rosalina is already doing. The fun part about these characters is that they are musicians... remove that part of their identity and I don't really care. "Marina with a bunch of tech" kind of defeats the point of Marina to me.

I'm also a believer that a unique Octoling/Agent 8, although unlikely and a bit unnecessary, can happen.

It absolutely can, but I don't think it will. Going off prior precedent with characters who are functionally identical in their source material, or share a similar theme or silhouette, they tend to be semiclones at best. Luigi, Falco, Lucas, Toon Link, Dark Samus, Isabelle, all could have been more but were intentionally crafted around their foil's foundation. When Splatoon has such dynamic characters in their arsenal beyond these avatars, I think they'd just cut their losses on making Octoling a skin or a clone and put the fullest effort into a completely new concept.

 

[BrawlX10]

So, I played Smash Tour....a weird way to have a board game fun. I prefer Smash Run as it more of scramble to gain stats rather than rolling a spinner to gain stats, items and fighters. Still, an interesting concept to say.

Back in 2014, Smash Tour was honestly, rightfully dunked on, the 3DS version got an amazing exclusive mode, Smash Run....and the WiiU version had....Smash Tour, which was super disapointing at the time as it was compared to the better mode, Smash Run.
Nowdays in 2025, Smash Tour is fun and it's easier to apreciate because Smash 4 is on the past, but back then, it just kinda sucked to have an inferior mode on the console version.

 

[ninjahmos]

I may have said this before, but if the next Smash game adds in anymore SEGA content including music…I'd love to hear a new remix of After Burner.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

https://x.com/sora_sakurai/status/1898261158131646649?s=46

Methapor protagonist confirmed for the next super smash bros game.
Also the U.I is gonna be based on Methapor instead of Persona 5 like in Ultimate

 

[SharkLord]

I'm thinking about characters who I'd want to get an actual revamp - Not just an attitude adjustment or a couple new moves, but a legit revamp. So far, my list is something like this:

1. as she is now is kinda bland. Maybe she could get projectile normals like Mega Man, maybe not. Regardless, Samus has become progressively more agile and aggressive, ironically closer to Zero Suit Samus than Power Suit Samus. Her specials can stay mostly the same, at least, but her base kit needs a rework.
2. On that note, is massive wasted opportunity. She actually does have equivalents to Samus' specials, albeit altered in function more than Smash does (A rapid-fire Shrapnel Beam, a Boost Ball dash, and a Screw Attack dive bomb), but she could do so much more than Samus' normals, what withher Phazon powers. Ironically, though, the floaty mechanics and flamethrower attacks kinda suit her.
3. doesn't need a full rework, and dumping a ton of copy abilities in there can easily make him overly cluttered. Plus, his normals are pretty intuitive for new players. That said, I don't think it would hurt to throw in a couple elemental abilities, like Fire's breath attack or Spark's thunder dome. I feel like those could flow a bit better than just .
4. is interesting. Her Smash kit is basically made up from scratch... but what would a canon-compliant Zelda even look like? Her most important roles are either A: In an alternate form or personality for most of her screentime (Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Spirit Tracks), literally dead (Also Spirit Tracks), or using abilities made up for that incarnation (BotW's time magic, Sheikah tech, and I believe most of her light god powers, and EoW's Tri Rod). The only constants are the Light Arrows (Which are usually given to Link anyways) and some vaguely-defined light magic. We could make an original moveset with the Light Arrows, maybe? That'd be fun to see.
   1. EoW Zelda is worth highlighting, because while she's not really an accurate representation of Zelda as a whole, it's still the first time she's been the main character since the CD-i games, which are, uh... The CD-i games. Plus, it'd be cool to see how EoW Zelda really looks outside of the littlle minifigure artstyle. At the very least, we could rework the Phantom into a Tri Rod special.
5. is uh. Y'know. A clone of a guy from another series entirely, using a fighting style completely different from his game incarnation. Plus, Tears of the Kingdom gave us our first incarnation of Ganondorf in a mainline game since Twilight Princess, back in 2005. I think a rework is pretty overdue.
6. , as I've said before, feels weak and weightless in Smash, while his home series has given him all sorts of cool and dynamic moves. I'd really like to see what a Meta Knight based on Star Allies and Forgotten Land could do.
7. . Why is Wario? Wario Land has him be a hard-hitting, mobile brawler. Wario Ware has him be a greedy, lazy goofball. Smash primarily bases him on neither, instead drawing from promo materials above all else. I dunno, that's just a weird way of doing things. Not to mention really friggin' gross.
8. is in a similar boat; His attacks are boring, his kit is weak, and he's doomed to a forgettable low-tier status. Let's fix that.
9. ... Hoo boy, my man's been reduced to a weight goofball mascot that only kinda-sorta fits him. Sonic Battle and Sonic Frontiers have given Sonic some slick, flashy attacks that would be a blast in Smash. Why can't we do that instead?
10. If comes back, a rework would be nice. Breakable weapons are a fun concept, but the way they're set up makes them feel rather handicapped. that said robin isnt on the roster im making so i have nothing more to say
11. mainly needs good aerials and better air movement. In a game like Smash, having a bad air game is a death sentence. I see him being reworked into being fast and hard-hitting, but with slow startup on his best attacks and poor reach overall, forcing him to weave around attacks and look for a good opening. Also, most people seem to agree that the Star Punches would work better than the Power Meter.
12. in Xenoblade is actually a pretty fast guy, much unlike the slow and clunky attacks he has in Smash. His Monado Arts don't work that way in Xenoblade, either. He actually does have a could other buffs in Monado Armour and Enchant, but the rest of his Arts are primarily attacks and debuffs.
13. I don't like 's moveset. The quarter-circles are fine, but they feel kinda weird to me, since Smash's whole deal is that everyone has the same control scheme to make them easier to play. I dunno, maybe we can give everyone else quarter-circles on the side. I cannot defend the pressure-sensitive buttons, however. Those are tricky to input right and make his moveset feel unecessarily bloated. I won't be sad to see them go. Oh, and we can take his jump off that fixed arc, it doesn't work well in Smash.
14. is the same as Ryu; Motion inputs are a little jarring but still easy enough to pull off, but pressure-sensitive buttons feel unecessary. Ironically, the reworks I'd want for Ken and Ryu would leave less work rather than more, since we're removing some moves.
15. If remains our Three Houses character, which is the most realistic option, I wish they'd go all-in on the Sword of the Creator and the Divine Pulse. The Relics are fun to land hits with, but sharing the moveset leaves each weapon with limited, simplistic moves. Like with Hero, it feels like Sakurai was overcompensating while trying to appease people who complained about Too Many Swordfighters.
16. is going to be controversial, but I don't think he should be the designated Wacky RNG Character. Hero in Dragon Quest is a fairly straigtforward magic knight, and that's cool enough on it's own. Plus, a few of their moves can't be learned by any Hero in Smash. I dunno, I feel like Sakurai was afraid Smash fans would react negatively to another swordfighter and overcompensated trying to make them unique
17. doesn't need a rework - His kit is perfectly servicable for a KH1-based moveset - But the later games give him a lot of crazy tools that would be really cool in Smash. They're not strictly necessary, but they'd be nice.

It was late and I forgot a couple characters, so here's an annendum:

1. has a crazy moveset and I respect that, but like with Ryu and Ken, it feels jarring to have a completely different control scheme. I'm rather she have a moveset that's a bit more in line with the usual Smash formula. Plus, a general agreement seems to be that Min Min is a pain in the ass to play with
2. , for similar reasons. I don't want to be the "no fun allowed" guy, but I feel like he deviates a bit too far from the established Smash mold. I'm fine with the diagonal tilts, but the crouch attacks, double dash attack, and multiple inputs feel a bit excessive.

I'm a big proponent of not removing characters' gimmicks because they define their character's identity in Super Smash Bros. This extends to Hero and Byleth as well despite their gimmicks being misplaced in a lot of people's opinions, but I don't really have much to say about them that I haven't already very recently. For Little Mac, I think he needs an improved ground game (it is currently polarizing, but compared to others, his ground kit lacks utility in certain areas), and a way for him to get onto platforms. He should never get good aerials. If need be, he could be given medeocre aerials to help him play around platforms, but they should never be a major part of his gameplan.

I think what probably should be done is that his standing jump height should be increased so that he can land on most platforms without burning his double jump, even if only just. He still would have to play around high platforms like the ones on Battlefield and Town & City strangely, but this should give him the ability to do so at all.

My problem with this gimmicks is that... Why is this their identity? Especially when they have other gimmicks and quirks they could use instead? I don't think these characters should be pidgeonholed into an identity that doesn't fit them, especially with Little Mac, who is notorious for being stuck in low tier. He's not the only character in Smash who can't usually jump either - Link and Olimar usually have limited aerial mobility, to my knowledge - And Smash is all about jumping and platforming while you fight, so his gimmick essentially forces him to be one-dimensional in a two-dimensional game.

I've spoken at length at how I believe that his Monado Arts are fine in concept, and why it makes sense that they did it this way a couple times before, but on actually fixing Shulk's kit, I think the main thing is that the Monado Arts need to alter his gameplan a bit more intentionally than just boosting his stats:

• Smash is for K.O.ing, and it does do that, so that's fine.
• Buster is for damage, so it should give him a higher combo ability. Making him do so little knockback that he can be negative on hit is silly, so the damage and knockback reduction should be normalized a bit, and his frame data should improve here to aid in the combos.
• Speed is for mobility, so it should give him better approach or whiff punish options.
• Shield is for defense, so instead of just making him go nowhere on hit (and dying instantly to Kazuya), it should give him better defensive options like turning Air Slash into a DP among other things.
• Jump is for recovery, and it does do that, so I guess it's fine. I would like to see some utility beyond that though.
• I also think Vision could be more interesting as a counter, but that wouldn't change a whole lot overall.

I'm more focused on his animations. Xenoblade Shulk doesn't move too quickly, but his animations are relatively quick and his stats are focused on evading attacks, if I remember correctly. I think he's closer to Smash!Cloud than anyone else, given how easily Cloud swings that giant slate of metal. Smash!Shulk awkwardly thrusts, then activates the Monado, like he doesn't know how his own sword works, then sticks the whole thing on his back until he attacks again.

Also, isn't Vision a counter already?

I say keep the extra moves, but give players a choice between Smash and Traditional controls: Smash controls are as they are now, Traditional controls give their heavy normals to the grab button (shield + attack is still a grab input, so you wouldn't be removing the option). Also, the FGC characters might benefit from having motion inputs mapped to only the special move button to avoid misinputs, with the exception of Ken's command normals, which should probably be the opposite.

Other than that, I kind of think they should stay the same. I don't believe their jump arcs are fixed so much as they have poor air exceleration. Simon, Richter, and oddly, Snake have this distinction as well. I think the main difference between them and Ryu and Ken is that they're all zoners, but with their high power, I think committing to aerial approaches is a fair weakness to have, and is an interesting way to ground their playstyles without just making their air game bad.

I feel like two separate movesets would only serve to overcomplicate things. My wanting them to loose the pressure-sensitive buttons is to bring them in line with the rest of the cast, not make them even more unusual. I like strange and unusual fighters, but I kinda prefer the philosophy of keeping controls roughly the same so everyone can figure out the fighters relatively easily.

Also, admittedly, I'm very disinterested in the Pearl drone concept. It's a disservice to Pearl who should really be able to fight on her own if they bother to implement Off the Hook at all, and kinda feels like a re-tread of what Rosalina is already doing. The fun part about these characters is that they are musicians... remove that part of their identity and I don't really care. "Marina with a bunch of tech" kind of defeats the point of Marina to me.

Would Pearl Drone just for a recovery work? Pearl can stay Pearl for most of the moveset, be it a duo fighter or a tag-team, but it seems like an easy enough up special to me. I haven't played Splatoon in a while, though, so I'm not sure.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Happy International Women's Day!

 

[Louie G.]

Would Pearl Drone just for a recovery work? Pearl can stay Pearl for most of the moveset, be it a duo fighter or a tag-team, but it seems like an easy enough up special to me. I haven't played Splatoon in a while, though, so I'm not sure.

It could probably work, but the thought of her transforming in and out of it mid-match doesn't sit right with me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Pearl can only take that form in the Memverse so it'd feel a little odd to treat it like something she can just do whenever she feels like. I like more "organic" moveset design that feels in-tune with a character's baseline abilities and this one just feels a bit too abstract.

Comparable to like, Mario using Cappy to temporarily possess opponents, giving Link his Ultrahand abilities, letting Peach transform into a swordfighter etc. These aren't likely to be staple abilities for these characters so it would be a little distracting / incompatible with their identity in Smash. Maybe these other ones I mentioned feel a bit more extreme, but I think the comparison gets my discomfort with it across a little better.

It could work if you really went all in on it as a companion for Marina or an Octoling, which again I don't really love for Pearl but would give this concept the room it needs to feel justified and flesh itself out. I find this unlikely because it hinges too much on a DLC side campaign, and this doesn't usually seem to be where Smash is looking for moveset inspiration.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

I'm more focused on his animations. Xenoblade Shulk doesn't move too quickly, but his animations are relatively quick and his stats are focused on evading attacks, if I remember correctly. I think he's closer to Smash!Cloud than anyone else, given how easily Cloud swings that giant slate of metal. Smash!Shulk awkwardly thrusts, then activates the Monado, like he doesn't know how his own sword works, then sticks the whole thing on his back until he attacks again.

Also, isn't Vision a counter already?


I feel like two separate movesets would only serve to overcomplicate things. My wanting them to loose the pressure-sensitive buttons is to bring them in line with the rest of the cast, not make them even more unusual. I like strange and unusual fighters, but I kinda prefer the philosophy of keeping controls roughly the same so everyone can figure out the fighters relatively easily.


Would Pearl Drone just for a recovery work? Pearl can stay Pearl for most of the moveset, be it a duo fighter or a tag-team, but it seems like an easy enough up special to me. I haven't played Splatoon in a while, though, so I'm not sure.

Well, Shulk isn't really focused on evading attacks in his game. He's got Monado speed, but the real evasion tanks there are Dunban and Fiora.Most of his attacks are pretty fast, though there are some exceptions(Monado Buster being one of them, along with Shaker Edge- which uses the animation of Shulk's talent art from before he gets the Monado). I guess Sakurai was afraid of having a swordfighter with as much range as Shulk has: the monado is already fairly large, but the blade can get even longer- like it does in the side smash.

Happy International Women's Day!

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I like this Bash Sisters roster. I don't think I'd put three Pokemon trainers though, I would lean towards female-only/feminine pokemon like Florges or Granbull. Just so the gimmick doesn't feel overplayed.

 

[cashregister9]

I am super conflicted on the concept of Pearl Drone

I feel like it kind of erases Pearl's character and presence a bit, to only have Marina and the Pearl Drone. but also the moveset potential is through the roof.

 

[SharkLord]

Well, Shulk isn't really focused on evading attacks in his game. He's got Monado speed, but the real evasion tanks there are Dunban and Fiora.Most of his attacks are pretty fast, though there are some exceptions(Monado Buster being one of them, along with Shaker Edge- which uses the animation of Shulk's talent art from before he gets the Monado). I guess Sakurai was afraid of having a swordfighter with as much range as Shulk has: the monado is already fairly large, but the blade can get even longer- like it does in the side smash.

Ah, so that's how it was. I seemed to remember Shulk as a fairly speedy fighter, for the most part. If we lean into that, I think it could help if they toned down his damage output to make up for his high range, though I dunno if that would work perfectly

 

[BrawlX10]

https://x.com/sora_sakurai/status/1898261158131646649?s=46

Methapor protagonist confirmed for the next super smash bros game.
Also the U.I is gonna be based on Methapor instead of Persona 5 like in Ultimate

If Metaphor gets a Switch 2 port i could see the protagonist joining as DLC, honestly.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Which characters do you think would belong to "Playable Fighter or Nothing" Category?

For me...

Master Chief
Lara Croft

As time passed, I am not too sure about putting Crash here unlike last time...

TBH, I'm not sure if I'd put any character there. Several characters who were heavily campaigned for to be playable ended up in non-playable roles. If they can get a big character in, they might just do it even if it's not in the biggest role.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

Ah, so that's how it was. I seemed to remember Shulk as a fairly speedy fighter, for the most part. If we lean into that, I think it could help if they toned down his damage output to make up for his high range, though I dunno if that would work perfectly

I guess you might have heard about Shulk in Future Redeemed, the DLC expansion to Xenoblade 3 where his role is to be really fast and dodge attacks. I definitely agree with you that the way he works right now feels too clunky though.

(Though, I kind of want some costumes based on Shulk's appearances in Future Connected and Future Redeemed. The latter might be harder seeing as how Shulk is a ~40 year old man with one arm in FR, but still)

 

[Louie G.]

I am super conflicted on the concept of Pearl Drone

I feel like it kind of erases Pearl's character and presence a bit, to only have Marina and the Pearl Drone. but also the moveset potential is through the roof.

Yeah, I think an aspect of this I dislike is that Pearl is by nature a very aggressive person. Limiting her to a more subservient support role feels like it takes away so much of that commanding presence that she normally has. It’s one thing if she takes that role in a side mode, it’s another thing if it’s the whole basis of her character here.

So I don’t think that would be right to represent her, nor do I even think it presents the most interesting material for her to work with. Giving her dualies, letting her blow opponents away with her screams, etc would be more fun by me and truer to her core identity. The drone feels reductive toward all of that.

 

[Garo]

I do wonder the thought process behind Shulk sheathing the Monado after every attack. To me it comes across as a sillier version of the Iaijutsu swordfighting technique which, to be fair, fits well with his more nerdy and peace-seeking nature.

Regarding his attacks, I actually like the "activation-stabs" since they show off a unique aspect of the Monado. No other swordfighter in the game could use their weapon in a similar manner.

 

[BrawlX10]

Which characters do you think would belong to "Playable Fighter or Nothing" Category?

For me...

Master Chief
Lara Croft

As time passed, I am not too sure about putting Crash here unlike last time...

I don't think any characters apply to this category. I think any videogame character can be a DLC Mii Costume at this point.
I think some characters however are unlikely to get an AT, like i don't think Crash or Master Chief would be an AT at all.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Mario using Cappy to temporarily possess opponents, giving Link his Ultrahand abilities

My opinion is that they probably included both these but not the main focus on their movesets.

The former as either replacement of Mario’s side or down b but without the capture mechanic since Kirby already has that job while the latter as a replacement Clawshot that was removed in Link’s moveset in Ultimate.

Cape only really appears in Super Mario World outside of stuff like Mario Marker so Mario already has two specials that barely appear alongside FLUDD.

 

[Idon]

I do wonder the thought process behind Shulk sheathing the Monado after every attack. To me it comes across as a sillier version of the Iaijutsu swordfighting technique which, to be fair, fits well with his more nerdy and peace-seeking nature.

Regarding his attacks, I actually like the "activation-stabs" since they show off a unique aspect of the Monado. No other swordfighter in the game could use their weapon in a similar manner.

The logic, from what I understand is
1. Atypical swordsmanship to separate him from other swordsmen, especially Cloud who has similar acrobatic speed
2. Emphasizes the "lightsaber" aspect of being able to turn it on/off (something that is shared with Pyra/Mythra though more cleanly done)
3. Represents the combat of him not having the weapon out when not within combat
Nevermind the fact that I don't think any JRPG character just has their weapon out all the time.

Regardless, I think it's plainly obvious that Shulk exists more as a template for a Sakurai gameplay concept than he exists to serve as a representation of how it feels to use him in Xenoblade. You can look at Ike being a rather slow and heavyset brute-force swordsman despite also being similarly acrobatic for a comparison.

Shulk exists as a ****ty character as a base, but gets cheat codes. Unless there's significant reason to do so, this will be his job forever I think.

Well, Shulk isn't really focused on evading attacks in his game. He's got Monado speed, but the real evasion tanks there are Dunban and Fiora.Most of his attacks are pretty fast, though there are some exceptions(Monado Buster being one of them, along with Shaker Edge- which uses the animation of Shulk's talent art from before he gets the Monado). I guess Sakurai was afraid of having a swordfighter with as much range as Shulk has: the monado is already fairly large, but the blade can get even longer- like it does in the side smash.

To be fair, that actually is his niche in the Xenoblade 3 DLC, inheriting that role and a lot more moves from Dunban, which is cute.

 

[Louie G.]

My opinion is that they probably included both these but not the main focus on their movesets.

The former as either replacement of Mario’s side or down b but without the capture mechanic since Kirby already has that job while the latter as a replacement Clawshot that was removed in Link’s moveset in Ultimate.

Cape only really appears in Super Mario World outside of stuff like Mario Marker so Mario already has two specials that barely appear alongside FLUDD.

My hangup is less about how a character only does something once and more about how cohesive that thing is with their identity or core abilities. Mario throwing his cap isn't weird, because he's always wearing his cap. But obviously if he could take control of a different character, it would change everything.

I outlined why I don't think Pearl's drone form suits her very much as a default stance. And as a transformation, I think it's just a little too offputting in the context of a greater moveset that doesn't otherwise focus on it. You're right that Link could have an Ultrahand grab and it wouldn't interfere with much else. But hopefully the general point I'm trying to make about cohesivity, and conveying a character's essence to an audience makes sense.

Also, I don't like FLUDD in Mario's moveset for pretty much that reason lol. But that's another conversation.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Regardless, I think it's plainly obvious that Shulk exists more as a template for a Sakurai gameplay concept than he exists to serve as a representation of how it feels to use him in Xenoblade. You can look at Ike being a rather slow and heavyset brute-force swordsman despite also being similarly acrobatic for a comparison.

Other examples include Captain Falcon, Sheik and Zero Suit, Lucario’s aura mechanic that is mostly original outside of name, Byleth in general outside of their sword.

Byleth can use other types of weapons at once but the character in Smash doing it was probably a compromise because of how controversial sword characters are. Three Houses is also the FE game without a Weapon Triangle.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

If we ever get more Sonic music for the next game, they probably won't do it, but I'd love to hear a Smash remix of this:

Don't forget this gem!

To me, it is a better tune! (The previous Final Boss music you posted is good too, though)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

When the next Smash game is announced and we're in the character announcements period, they should reveal Chun-Li on International Woman's Day. It would make sense to reveal one of the most iconic female video game characters of all-time on a day like that.

It would make sense but perhaps it would be too obvious.

After all, when has a newcomer's reveal date ever lined up with anything?

...Seriously, I'm genuinely asking because I don't remember them lmao

IIRC, it was the veterans back in Smash 4 who had their reveal dates line up with holidays or game anniversaries while newcomers were just... whenever yet it never stopped people from assuming Ultimate's DLC would be like this every single ****ing wave

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The logic, from what I understand is
1. Atypical swordsmanship to separate him from other swordsmen, especially Cloud who has similar acrobatic speed

I sincerely doubt differentiating from Cloud specifically had anything to do with it since Cloud came after Shulk.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I sincerely doubt differentiating from Cloud specifically had anything to do with it since Cloud came after Shulk.

I think they mean Shulk is meant to stand out from swordsmen in general.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Atypical swordsmanship to separate him from other swordsmen, especially Cloud who has similar acrobatic speed

Although honestly I think Shulk having the attributes he has such as average speed and mediocre frame data for some moves is simply just because to balance his Monado Arts rather then because of other characters in the roster.

 

[Lionfranky]

Why are you not sure about Crash now?

It's more of gut feeling on top of change in gaming landscape.

I don't think any characters apply to this category. I think any videogame character can be a DLC Mii Costume at this point.
I think some characters however are unlikely to get an AT, like i don't think Crash or Master Chief would be an AT at all.

Would you be saying the same to Sora before his reveal?
I actually got him right when I talked about this topic.

 

[BrawlX10]

It's more of gut feeling on top of change in gaming landscape.


Would you be saying the same to Sora before his reveal?
I actually got him right when I talked about this topic.

Sora is already in Smash, so of course i'm not counting him for that question.

 

[Wonder Smash]

It's more of gut feeling on top of change in gaming landscape.

Change in gaming landscape? What do you mean by that?

 

[cashregister9]

Saw a cool Smash mod on Bluesky recently

Soda & Pop INC. (@sodaandpop-inc.bsky.social)

Decided I'm posting this with no context

bsky.app

New Rhythm Heaven content would fix me