PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dr Peepee]

The things I want to say. =p

I'm working on both the ditto and the puff matchup. =)

 

[Mogwai]

I think you should work on 4-Stocking Lucky's Fox again rather than BREAKING MY HEART!

 

[JPOBS]

falco dittos are HARD

i dont know how non-falco players can stand to play us. I swear falco is broken and stupid.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think you should work on 4-Stocking Lucky's Fox again rather than BREAKING MY HEART!

LMFAO yeah I got that one covered too.

I'm really dumb but I'm getting better about it.

 

[SPAWN]

Yayyyy DrPP!!!! What's your first name again btw I keep forgetting.

 

[Dr Peepee]

LOL <3 Spawn.

My name's Kevin. It's alright if you can't remember it, other people not from NC usually can't remember it either for some reason haha.

 

[cloudz]

i have a better name for this thread.

Dr.PEEPEE ADVICE THREAD: SUCK MY BLUE FEATHERED ****(now with more puffTESTICALE exp)

 

[SPAWN]

I just feel really awkward calling you DrPP on boards/to your face. I'm extremely comfortable calling you DrPP when I'm cheering for you. That's when it's mad legit.

<3 KEVIN

My name's Marc btw. :3 Mostly everyone calls me Spawn though haha... to include people I've known in the smash scene for over 3 years... (example Milktea still calls me Spawn even to her friends xD)

 

[Dr Peepee]

@cloudz: plenty of pp for you too.

@Spawn: Alright Marc, I'll try to keep your name in mind haha.

I guess your name is just catchy though if everyone calls you spawn in person haha.

 

[Roneblaster]

Dr. Kev Kev

 

[SPAWN]

That it is Kevin, that it is.

 

[cloudz]

@cloudz: plenty of pp for you too.

@Spawn: Alright Marc, I'll try to keep your name in mind haha.

I guess your name is just catchy though if everyone calls you spawn in person haha.

thank god......thank, thank, thank god. lolol

 

[#HBC | Mac]

spawn, can you go back to your character now >=/

also thanks for the advice pp

 

[SPAWN]

Yedi, with the amount of practice I've put into Falco/Falco theory, that's just an unreal request lol.

 

[Rubyiris]

I hate falco dittos when the other person has a better laser game than me.

Playing Falco dittos with Forward is the worst experience in the world.

 

[Dr Peepee]

No problem Yedi. Sorry it took me so long to get around to doing.

@Ruby: I know what you mean. Playing Chops and his crazy laser game is really frustrating lol.

 

[Ballistics]

Dr Pee Pee I need some advice vs Peach

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5790335/highlight/60505

whenever you get the chance hook me up with some pointers

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'll try to get to you later tonight, Ballistics.

Tired+actually sorta busy johns.

 

[tw1n]

Thanks for the advice =]

 

[I.B]

This post bothered me a enormously. Aside from being a really unhelpful thing to say, it's also pretty insulting. You're basically saying "You're so bad that it's not even worth trying to help you." That sends a really elitist message, and I would hope that top players would be more helpful, or at least maintain a decent level of civility. I don't know if you were just in a bad mood or what, but I think you should try to be a little bit more considerate.

This is dismissive and hard to believe. My tech skill isn't that terrible, and I've seen you give a lot of good, articulate advice before. If nothing else, you can tell me what tech skill is most important to work on before i should worry about other parts of my game. If you didn't feel like helping at all, it's easier to not respond than to throw out non-constructive criticism.

i don't even get that, do you not see the game out side of techskill? Like you couldn't tell him to laser more/less, switch up his approach or ANYTHING? It's pretty clear the game isn't all about techskill, go tell mango when he picked up falco and beat everyone still, regardless of his junky *** techskill, that he needs more techskill before anything. :embarrass

It can be hard to give critique on a player's battle strategies when those same strategies aren't even executed properly. If it makes you guys feel better, the most you'll be getting is things like "you messed up here, you failed this, missed that," etc. Which is why you should work on getting most, if not, all of that fixed up. Then you'll get advice like "you're jumping into their moves a lot, do this and this by the edge instead, you're juggling aimlessly when you should be pushing them to the edge," etc.

Sorry for the late reply.

 

[unknown522]

^ wow, super late man.

but oh well.

LOL <3 Spawn.

My name's Kevin. It's alright if you can't remember it, other people not from NC usually can't remember it either for some reason haha.

lol, I had to ask for your name twice to remember at pound. I usually remember after I forget once.

I hate falco dittos when the other person has a better laser game than me.

Playing Falco dittos with Forward is the worst experience in the world.

No problem Yedi. Sorry it took me so long to get around to doing.

@Ruby: I know what you mean. Playing Chops and his crazy laser game is really frustrating lol.

I find it really sad that when I falco ditto people, I usually do better than I do with fox vs their falco......

Mango, chops, eggm, and zhu pretty much. Even local players.

Still, I really want to get better at that matchup so that I won't have to use fox vs them.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

do any of you ever have any trouble with docs?

i wanna use doc vs falco because I hate the ditto match up

 

[Rubyiris]

do any of you ever have any trouble with docs?

i wanna use doc vs falco because I hate the ditto match up

I only have problems with doc if hes camping under battlefield platforms. It's not too terribly problematic on any other stage.

 

[unknown522]

do any of you ever have any trouble with docs?

i wanna use doc vs falco because I hate the ditto match up

I tried that vs PP in pools at pound 4....

I don't have trouble with docs. Just abuse why they're a bad character and it's all good. Just don't miss L-cancels.

 

[FoxLisk]

Someone talk to me about how to think about lasers vs. Fox. The matchup guide doesn't really go into it; it talks about how to stop Fox when he's trying to get around your lasers, but it doesn't really explain how to laser so as to maximize Fox's problems.

The things I've come up with from my own experience (which is limited, as no one I know mains fox), is to laser high most of the time to stop him from throwing SH aerials, and that IDJ lasers should be Hi-Lo because hitting with the high and the mid doesn't help nearly as much as having the low one to cover the ground if you were wrong.
I was watching some videos of Zhu's falco vs. foxes, since he tends to perform well in that matchup, and I noticed that he used retreating lasers sort of like a marth uses DD grab; if fox was coming at him and he predicted a nair or dash attack aimed at his body, he'd retreat and laser and then grab or shine or whatever he had time for, and he'd use them to get out of the way of FH approaches, too.

However, when playing against a sufficiently fast fox, lasers don't cut it to stop their approaches, and I can never figure out when I should try to laser, how to control whatever space I can grab hold of, and when I should be trying to CC or DD or challenge with a nair/utilt/whatever. So any advice on a sort of method of thinking about when and where to laser is very welcome, and I'm sure there are other falcos out there who are wondering the same.

Also, I've become rather fond of retreating dairs against fox: it stops all but an overshot nair, it stops any grab, and it's not easy to punish unless they're expecting it (read: don't spam it). Is this as good a tactic as I've found it, or am I just not being punished properly? Are retreating nairs better? Should I just be running onto platforms?

 

[unknown522]

- if he's close, don't laser.
- if he's mid-range, move back and laser.
- if he's far, keep lasering.
- you can sometimes get away with lasering up close. It may beat their attempt to attack, then you get to combo it into a shine.

 

[FoxLisk]

Yeah, I know that much, I was asking for advice specific to fox, not just a general explanation of how lasers tend to work

Do I go with high SHL, or should I use low ones? Is my intuition right about IDJL? what about when he's using a FH approach, or running around on platforms?

Also, if he's far, I'm usually at one of the edges, and I'd rather be mid-distance and not at risk to get edgeguarded most of the time. Do you think laser control is more important than not being right next to the ledge?

 

[unknown522]

personally, I think that DJing vs fox is bad. Since he's so fast, he can run under you pretty quickly, then put pressure on you, or get a combo/gimp. If there's a platform, SHL under it is amazing. u-tilt them if they try to approach you, or if they roll, then shine them right after. If they're on the other side of the stage on a platform, then DJDL/FHDL is good for getting them off. Then Isai-drop the next laser, so that you cover them if they try to go down.

On FD though, SHL pretty much, unless they're completely on the opposite side of the stage. I used to think that low lasers were better, but mid-high ones can completely cover fox's SH, while not letting him be able to run under the lasers (like marth can). It pretty much forces him to PS/shine your lasers, or have to FH over them, which then he's wide-open, or you can keep lasering him. If you shoot them too high (the top of your jump), they will go right over his head though.

Still, I think that falco mains could give better insight on lasering than I can.

 

[AnDaLe]

hey, i have no why i haven't subbed to this thread yet even though i subbed to almost every other character advice thread on here, and i'm a falco main >_<. *subbed*


btw, really need help with the falco ditto matchup, especially on Dreamland and Yoshi's Island.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaFMkfRZRnU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Pubg9MFMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Y6GtYfLPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUDjjYVEOk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktqgvpLKhyg


and the sheik matchup too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDTv-A0yo_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb1ASlJ5PHg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYs7nmsLSGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_1gg3VmqBM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeSnehKZI-Y

some specific questions are, how do i combo falco on those stages? what moves to use to over prioritize falco's approaches? How do i combo shiek? Do's and don't vs falco/sheik?

 

[FoxLisk]

Hm, okay, thanks. I should be more wary of DJing against fox in general, that's true. I'll have to figure out safer ways of messing up his FH approaches.

And yeah, any other falco players have input? This is, IMO, one of the trickiest matchups to laser in, because you have to do it very accurately or else you get fux0red, as opposed to most characters, where they're a little slower and you thus have more leeway (except CF, but lasers are super effective against him anyway).

I'd also like to hear what others think about retreating SH dairs.

 

[unknown522]

OMG, it beats like everything. Whether you space it or not.

I think b-air is better

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Is it supposed to be 100x harder to kill jiggs when you're both on your last stock and you're up about 100%?

 

[unknown522]

lol, don't get camped....

 

[Dr Peepee]

Puff gets super gay on her last stock lol.

I don't really know a lot about fighting Doc.

Still busy but I'll talk about lasers vs Fox and get that critique done tomorrow/today/whatever.

 

[unknown522]

I think I could've won our match when I was doc, but that's solely because you were messing up a lot (I think I would've gotten ***** pretty bad if you were playing well). I remember even pointing out what you screwed up on (like missed l-cancel, standing laser, not jumping out of shine, wrong move by accident, flubbed WD/WL, etc.), then you'd be say "yeah, exactly". You kept shaking your head, but I understood.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I try not to john about Pound if I can help it. =(

I still really don't know how to fight Doc though LOL.

 

[unknown522]

honestly, if you don't miss L-cancels you'll be fine. Or if you platform camp him, he's screwed. Ban FD. Docs pretty much try to CC -> d-smash a lot, and try to shield grab. You could also out-space him, or shine him above you, then b-air through all his aerials.

 

[MacD]

pound???

it's PEA-FT-CH

 

[Dr Peepee]

I wish I knew more about it than that lol, but alright.

and hahahahaha MacD. XD

 

[unknown522]

yeah, I'm sorry, but I lack complete experience on it as well. Solid play, or camping him just ***** him with the top tiers. All I do is try to not miss L-cancels vs him. The spacies' combo game vs doc is pretty crappy, so it feels like it isn't worth approaching sometimes. If you can get him at a good distance above you, then it can be really hard for them to get down. The only thing to watch out for when they're above you is that doc/mario's d-air is sort of disjointed, so it can beat/trade with a lot of moves. Still, that's why b-air is so good vs them. Their recovery sucks as well and you can do anything to it (hog them, let them get on and hit them, intercept them, ect).

I just try to abuse doc's shortcommings as a character to my advantage. Same with vs peach and almost all low tier characters. It's really gay.

oh yeah, before I forget: I dunno if I posted this earlier, but from 0-65% if you u-throw fox with falco and they DI in front or miss the DI, you can f-smash them and it will link. Though at almost all times, it'll probably be better to shine if they miss the DI on the u-throw.