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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
Thanks for that Unknown. That helps some.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Just take doc to stages like fod/ys/dl and abuse the fact that hes a bad character lol.
FD is chaingrab destination and bf is camp under platformfield.
FD is chaingrab destination and bf is camp under platformfield.
Falco stomps Doc in the nuts.
I just play a really gay platform camping/priority wall game vs. him
.
I just play a really gay platform camping/priority wall game vs. him
.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Falco pours hot, sweaty **** on like everyone but the other top tiers. Usually you don't even have to do the matchup properly to do it either. You just have to not mess up.
And the better you actually play the matchup, the more you're allowed to mess up.
And the better you actually play the matchup, the more you're allowed to mess up.
unknown522
Some guy
Np. Doc is one of those characters that a lot of people find boring to fight against. It's because both characters can't really do much to each other, but falco is just better at everything in the matchup (control, camping, priority, some combos, etc.) so it becomes kinda slow when playing it seriously. When I play with local players, they never want to play vs my doc/mario. Still, I'm gonna tell them "what are you gonna do when you face a doc/mario in tourney? Forfeit?" lol.
DL is so bad for doc. His best bet is the smaller stages and brinstar I guess, but it's still pretty bad. Also, you're right about BF being annoying.
pretty much.Falco stomps Doc in the nuts.
I just play a really gay platform camping/priority wall game vs. him
How come sometimes when I multishine/shine OOS I just do a short hop? Is it because I'm trying to get the shine out too quick...or...?
Also when I slow it down I usually move like a very small amount off the ground, but enough for it to **** up everything I'm trying to do for shield pressuring.
Edit:
Some frame data on it:
Also when I slow it down I usually move like a very small amount off the ground, but enough for it to **** up everything I'm trying to do for shield pressuring.
Edit:
Some frame data on it:
I think I'm doing it to quick, just figured I'd double check.
Yea, if you do it with Fox timing, you're just doing it too quickly so you're trying to shine before you're actually Airborne, which you can't do so Falco does nothing.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
fox timing messes with me alot on Shine OoS as falco.
its so easy with fox anyone touch your sheild you just do a super fast shien oos but when i switch to falco i always have problems jumping out after the shine cuz im doing it too fast lol.
playing bad characters with falco is funny. I recent started playing a good bit of falco vs pika. that matchup is hilarious. Pika's tech roll is garbs and even with falco's poor ground speed you can almost tech chase her on reaction sheik style.
its so easy with fox anyone touch your sheild you just do a super fast shien oos but when i switch to falco i always have problems jumping out after the shine cuz im doing it too fast lol.
playing bad characters with falco is funny. I recent started playing a good bit of falco vs pika. that matchup is hilarious. Pika's tech roll is garbs and even with falco's poor ground speed you can almost tech chase her on reaction sheik style.
Thanks Wes. ^_^
I'm actually not doing Fox timing either... the method I'm doing to get from Y>B doesn't allow me to do Fox's multishine (I slide my thumb at the top of Y to the top of B)... or at least not for me personally (my friend Joe does it this way with Fox which to me seems just plain ridiculous lol)...
() () () () all over the place
I'm actually not doing Fox timing either... the method I'm doing to get from Y>B doesn't allow me to do Fox's multishine (I slide my thumb at the top of Y to the top of B)... or at least not for me personally (my friend Joe does it this way with Fox which to me seems just plain ridiculous lol)...
() () () () all over the place
Pikachu's a dude and he's manly as ****, so stop saying her! Geez, wtf is wrong with you people.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
seriously he has a wizard hat, girls cant be wizards
JPOBS
Smash Hero
ya tru pika is a guy but for some reason i always think of him and as a girl lol
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Pika is a guy.
I always imagine Puff being a girl though.
I always imagine Puff being a girl though.
MacD
Banned via Administration
drpp, you just signed off
look at 1:12 when you get back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayFC5qxoqc8&feature=channel
look at 1:12 when you get back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayFC5qxoqc8&feature=channel
OH ****
I noticed you had the drpp tag on at 1:12.
I noticed you had the drpp tag on at 1:12.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
MacD
Banned via Administration
i did have that tag on at 1:12, and you know, i was nice enough to keep it one from 1:12-1:22, aren't i just so nice
Yeah, that video is better than I thought it was.
unknown522
Some guy
I will. You can be a witness.
man, that fox got ***** =P.drpp, you just signed off
look at 1:12 when you get back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayFC5qxoqc8&feature=channel
wow, i keep on getting confused with dmac and macd.
oh and pikachu's voice actor is a girl, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHk52RvpOLw
prolly why u guys think its a girl O.o
oh and pikachu's voice actor is a girl, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHk52RvpOLw
prolly why u guys think its a girl O.o
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
*shrug*
Knock yourself out.
And that Fox did get *****. ***** so hard he changed his gender, dyed his hair, and covered his face in the hopes that Peach wouldn't be attracted to him anymore. Didn't work.
Little England
Smash Master
I noticed that I can jump out of my shine faster with the "Y" button and also do various things faster involving the use "Y" and "B" buttons(whenever you have to use the "B" button then jump and visa versa). I now use the "X" button. Should I make the switch? Will it make me more technical? What do you guys use to jump? etc. etc. /rant
ty
Edit: Nevermind.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
tbo, i think spacies rely on the Top X/Y button (can't remember), its easier cuz u can essentially "roll" to other buttons. Like double lasering with fox.
I know a lot of peach playeres use the farther outer one(still don't remember), cuz its easier to follow up Floats with Z using it.
I know a lot of peach playeres use the farther outer one(still don't remember), cuz its easier to follow up Floats with Z using it.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
the button you use only makes a difference if you plan to use that button and that button alone for all jump involving things
like its easier to do double shines and shdl with fox when you use the Y button, but if you can learn to just joystick jump for those thigns then you can use X for everything else.
like its easier to do double shines and shdl with fox when you use the Y button, but if you can learn to just joystick jump for those thigns then you can use X for everything else.
~Twitch~
Smash Master
hmm, good thread title.
Ballistics
Smash Champion
:: waiting patiently for pee pee advice but in no rush :: =)
Yeah, I'm really sorry. Went to a tourney last weekend and was probably being dumb before that.
I will definitely critique you today though. Hopefully I'll write about Puff soon as well....
I will definitely critique you today though. Hopefully I'll write about Puff soon as well....
Got it.
I'll look at the first match for now, unless you think you'll need more. It'll also be a general critique for now.
Try not to Dair Peach while she is airborne. Nair or her hitting the ground to Dsmash/moveset is a problem then.
Don't forward B at Peach unless you do it above her or at the range where you'll get sent behind her/clank with her nair.
Make sure you know what all of your AC Bairs are for. You didn't punish some rolls after you spaced Bairs and then you were in trouble.
Work on sweetspotting and using shine stalls or up-B earlier to avoid turnips. Try to shield less vs Peach(move out of the way and counter or hit her first type of deal). Your Bair game when Peach is on a platform needs work. You either missed her shield trying to avoid landing on the platform(which you don't have to do) or you went through it trying to hit Peach and then got aerial'd OOS. Try to laser her off or land on the platform with spaced Bairs or just wait her out(she's shielding on a platform...what can she do?).
If that's not enough or you need me to elaborate then I can do that.
Was I supposed to critique something of Foxlisk's? Where is that at?
Ballistics
Smash Champion
Na thats good stuff thanks man
i'm gonna ditto that lol. No rush either
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
Oh, no, I didn't have any videos out, I was just hoping you could give some general pointers on lasering in the vs. Fox matchup. Your guide gives good advice on how to stop him froma voiding your lasers, but doesn't explain how to place them or what types to throw in which situations very much, which I feel I need help with.
Oh, well I thought I covered it, but maybe I'll say it a different way and see if that helps.
When Fox is on a platform you want to shoot him from a different platform(using double lasers either from a FH or a run off DJ back up double laser). This applies to DL and varying degrees on other stages depending on how quick you are to get there and how defensive the fox is.
If Fox is grounded then you want to stay pretty strong with grounded lasers to stick him in his shield when you're close/mid-range or make him jump when you're long range and possibly anticipate the jump and keep him locked down with FH DLs onto a platform. Run offstage to DJ onstage DLs **** grounded Fox too. And if Fox is grounded while you're on a platform, then you can 1. SH off DL(sends one other platform range and one lower) 2. SHL on the platform to Isai drop(run forward a little and hit down) laser(this is faster than SH'ing off) or 3. run off/drop through laser(for smaller stages/closer quarters).
I guess that helps some? Let me know if I'm leaving situations you don't know about out.
When Fox is on a platform you want to shoot him from a different platform(using double lasers either from a FH or a run off DJ back up double laser). This applies to DL and varying degrees on other stages depending on how quick you are to get there and how defensive the fox is.
If Fox is grounded then you want to stay pretty strong with grounded lasers to stick him in his shield when you're close/mid-range or make him jump when you're long range and possibly anticipate the jump and keep him locked down with FH DLs onto a platform. Run offstage to DJ onstage DLs **** grounded Fox too. And if Fox is grounded while you're on a platform, then you can 1. SH off DL(sends one other platform range and one lower) 2. SHL on the platform to Isai drop(run forward a little and hit down) laser(this is faster than SH'ing off) or 3. run off/drop through laser(for smaller stages/closer quarters).
I guess that helps some? Let me know if I'm leaving situations you don't know about out.
unknown522
Some guy
@ ballistics:
Or just retreat, but avoid trapping yourself at the edge.
yeah, it's better to n-air her if you have the chance to hit her out of her float. You may be able to n-air stride (repeated n-air combo), or d-air her if he goes off the stage at some percents. If she's at a low percent, then you can shine her and combo like normal, instead of risking d-air since it has less range.
Or just retreat, but avoid trapping yourself at the edge.
Ballistics
Smash Champion
ah yes good points, gotta stop being dair crazy
unknown522
Some guy
it's soo good that you don't want to stop using it right?
Ballistics
Smash Champion
yea its so raw, but nair is just as cool
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
Yeah that's very helpful, but what I'm looking for is sort of a philosophy of how to try to control space around fox. Like, I was recently advised in controlling space around marth: his strongest options are on the ground, so you want to laser in a way that limits his ground options and/or forces him to jump, at which point he's more vulnerable and less powerful. That sort of idea of where I want him informs my whole marth game now (and I'm starting to beat my friend who used to **** me in falco v marth, so i think it's helping a lot). I was wondering if you (or anyone, really) has a similar schemata for playing fox.
I gather from your post that you want him grounded at short range and in the air at long range, which doesn't make much sense to me. It makes sense in terms of how best to laser him more, but I don't want to build my whole game around just lasering. I'm interested in how to arrange lasers around fox to take away his best options and force him into situations where I can gain an edge. The problem is that, grounded, he can grab -> ****; if he can jump, he can nair->shine->****; and if he has platforms, he can use those to approach you from above (which you can often CC or utilt through but still poses a problem). So I don't know when to shoot lasers to stop which options.
If he's running at me, i can RSHL low to stop him from grabbing me, but then if he overshoots a nair or goes to a platform I've missed him, I'm in lag, and I've conceded ground; other situations are similar.
I guess I'm really asking: Is there a good way to go about the matchup, or is it all predicting his approaches and countering that more than a general thing? Like, can I play vs. Fox or do i have to constantly play against my opponent? Which sounds like a stupid question, I know, but I mean how much of this matchup is matchup knowledge and how much is simply being a superior player?