R.I.P. Bowsercide

[-Kagato-]

@ -Kagato- Against what character was it? I just saw a post where someone Bowsercided a Mario on their last stocks and it gave Mario the win.

Link.

And just tried against a Wario and it gave Wario the win.

Looking as if Bowsercide is just bugged right now.

 

[B!squick]

Link.

And just tried against a Wario and it gave Wario the win.

Looking as if Bowsercide is just bugged right now.

gg. Totes not being sarcastic.

I also love how Nintendo saw fit not to release patch notes. It's bad enough we have to adjust to the changes they've made, but we have to figure out what the **** they even are on our own. Just... just **** off Nintendo, seriously.

Is there even a point in making a tier list for this game? It's entirely possible we'd decide on rankings and Nintendo could release a major patch the next day and screw everything up.

 

[-Kagato-]

Is there even a point in making a tier list for this game? It's entirely possible we'd decide on rankings and Nintendo could release a major patch the next day and screw everything up.

That's how it is with fighting games. Smash is just late to the patch party. A fighting game gets a new patch and it's back to the drawing board for the competitive community and figuring out a new tier list.

 

[S_B]

That's how it is with fighting games. Smash is just late to the patch party. A fighting game gets a new patch and it's back to the drawing board for the competitive community and figuring out a new tier list.

And honestly, I don't mind keeping folks guessing like this.

Balance patches could've saved Brawl from being the runaway poop festival that it was, but in addition, patches will allow us to see far fewer FOTM debacles since the FOTM should keep switching.

 

[B!squick]

That's how it is with fighting games. Smash is just late to the patch party. A fighting game gets a new patch and it's back to the drawing board for the competitive community and figuring out a new tier list.

Here's the thing though. In other games, not just fighting games, they have these things called patch notes and sometimes they even release these before the patch so the community is aware of major changes ahead of time, such as input changes for specials for example.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they held off on a patch just so they could release it suddenly after a tier list is made or updated, because releasing a video of Sakurai flipping us the double bird for 30 minutes would be too classy for them.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ B!squick lol I love Sakurai's trolling. I mean, just look at this video of the Sm4sh Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rxg4zWutWU

I would love for Nintendo to release patch notes if this is going to be a continuous effort, just like everyone else. Until then, my *** is in the training room, directing my friends, and getting ninja'd by everyone testing things faster than I can.

 

[-Kagato-]

Here's the thing though. In other games, not just fighting games, they have these things called patch notes and sometimes they even release these before the patch so the community is aware of major changes ahead of time, such as input changes for specials for example.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they held off on a patch just so they could release it suddenly after a tier list is made or updated, because releasing a video of Sakurai flipping us the double bird for 30 minutes would be too classy for them.

This is true. Patch notes explaining things would be nice. That way we'd know what's working as intended. After all, since a sudden death seems to happen sometimes with bowser losing other times, it would be nice to know what they intended and why.

 

[S_B]

Though, yes, I too would LOVE actual patch notes...

We get some crazy placebo effects going otherwise...

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Hahaha, am I the only one who was chilling on the edge just letting uninformed Bowser's take me off the side of the stage not knowing that they'd die first? Probably won 3-5 matches cause of this

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hahaha, am I the only one who was chilling on the edge just letting uninformed Bowser's take me off the side of the stage not knowing that they'd die first? Probably won 3-5 matches cause of this

Hahaha!!! FREE WIN!!!

Still a terrible nerf to an already difficult move to connect..... and yet no buff to compensate......

 

[Ragna22]

I use Bowser and I welcome this for two reasons, for one I almost never use it anyway and two, I've fought quite a lot of people who were trying to get cheap kills by just waiting for me to approach them near the edge so they can Bowsercide and while I appreciate the extra wins due to their predictable strategy, I'd kinda like to actually fight guys who'll legitimately fight back

 

[Hitman JT]

Hahaha, am I the only one who was chilling on the edge just letting uninformed Bowser's take me off the side of the stage not knowing that they'd die first? Probably won 3-5 matches cause of this

You........you're a monster.........

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You........you're a monster.........

Come on! It's kinda funny when you think about it.... >:]

 

[xskippo]

Guys i was wonderin how is the control on the bowser side-B devided?
I know that in brawl it was % based but it doesn't seem to be that way on the 3DS.
Also does it differ between costum moves?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Guys i was wonderin how is the control on the bowser side-B devided?
I know that in brawl it was % based but it doesn't seem to be that way on the 3DS.
Also does it differ between costum moves?

It's still % based, but both players have some control during the move (most % has most control)

 

[EarthenPillar]

I'm okay with the Bowsercide nerf. I've only used it to conveniently get out of battle while I was ahead to begin with.

And, Aren't we getting a little off topic from Bowsercide here?

I don't know if this is really the place to talk about Nintendo's call when it comes to posting up patch notes, but I think there's no point to hate (or praise) Sakurai for these kinds of things since I doubt it's just him making the call, and besides, it's neither a good or bad thing to have those notes up. Not for every character and the whole game it isn't.

I'm actually glad that there are no patch notes. Having been playing fighting games for a long time, I'm so sick and tired of people suddenly flocking to, and away from, certain characters on the roster just because of some changes, without even trying to see if it's still fun to play, for them, to begin with. I definitely remember that being the case for me with Sagat, Rufus, Yun, Noobcyborg.

Tier lists are okay, but can sometimes really ruin a game for me...
SSB4 has a pretty huge roster, and I don't want to have to get my daily fix in For Glory, just to see like 20+ lilmac, rosaluma, ZSS, greyninja, nes, sheik before I even meet the first Pit or Pikachu.

The reason why I played Smash Bros compared to other fighting games is because it requires me to think in the first place.

 

[B!squick]

I'm okay with the Bowsercide nerf. I've only used it to conveniently get out of battle while I was ahead to begin with.

And, Aren't we getting a little off topic from Bowsercide here?

I don't know if this is really the place to talk about Nintendo's call when it comes to posting up patch notes, but I think there's no point to hate (or praise) Sakurai for these kinds of things since I doubt it's just him making the call, and besides, it's neither a good or bad thing to have those notes up. Not for every character and the whole game it isn't.

I'm actually glad that there are no patch notes. Having been playing fighting games for a long time, I'm so sick and tired of people suddenly flocking to, and away from, certain characters on the roster just because of some changes, without even trying to see if it's still fun to play, for them, to begin with. I definitely remember that being the case for me with Sagat, Rufus, Yun, Noobcyborg.

Tier lists are okay, but can sometimes really ruin a game for me...
SSB4 has a pretty huge roster, and I don't want to have to get my daily fix in For Glory, just to see like 20+ lilmac, rosaluma, ZSS, greyninja, nes, sheik before I even meet the first Pit or Pikachu.

The reason why I played Smash Bros compared to other fighting games is because it requires me to think in the first place.

People are gonna either data mine or throughly test to figure out the changes anyway and by now all the major ones have been found already and anything else is too insignificant to care about. So all they've accomplished is wasting everyone's time by making us figure it out for ourselves.

On the subject of tier lists, I'll never understand what some people have against them. Some characters are obviously going to be better at winning than others. A tier list just puts them all in order for us and they generally get together some halfway intelligent people to do so.

Mystery patches at random not only adversely affect the integrity of said lists, but the meta game as well. In a broad sense, Smash 4 3DS is now a completely different game now. This might not be so bad if Nintendo didn't do arbitrary things like turning Klaw into an SD move in certain situations. Generally with patches you'd generally want to fix bugs and, you know, balance the game. I fail to see how making Klaw, a move that's extremely difficult to land as it is, a detriment to the Bowser player is balancing the game in any sense of the word.

And as I pointed out in the other topic, without patch notes, we have no way of knowing if the new bugs that resulted from their changes are indeed bugs or the game working as intended.

But then, I shouldn't be surprised. This is the same company that wont allow The Binding of Isaac on the WiiU because of the religious stuff in it. Never mind that they personally funded Bayonette 2, a game about killing angels and all sorts of other religious related things. Nintendo can't just be stupid, they have to be hypocrites as well.

 

[EarthenPillar]

Only the change to Bowsercide IS an effort at balancing.

It seems like you've some salt on Nintendo, I do too. However you can't really generalize their decision making as if the whole cooperation is run by one brain. I hear your site on religion and games, I love those discussions but this thread is definitely not the place to talk about this.

On the subject of tier lists. My own opinion is that it is a lazy ass way to see data. It tells you very little about the MUs concerning your mains and instead feeds hefty assumptions on silly things like discrimination against people who play high tier characters. Personally, I'm bored with predictable reads from the same higher tier MUs, over and over again. History's already shown us that smaller meta roster means shallower lifespan for a fighting games. I love Smash Bro's gameplay too much to see that end happen too soon.

I'm sorry if you feel that people digging in with no patch notes is a waste of time. I don't. People enjoy figuring the little things out together and if it weren't for that we wouldn't have the majority of mechanics in our fighting games to begin with. How can you say that and still be playing a video game is beyond me.

http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/

People are gonna either data mine or throughly test to figure out the changes anyway and by now all the major ones have been found already and anything else is too insignificant to care about. So all they've accomplished is wasting everyone's time by making us figure it out for ourselves.

And as I pointed out in the other topic, without patch notes, we have no way of knowing if the new bugs that resulted from their changes are indeed bugs or the game working as intended.

 

[-Kagato-]

It's an attempt at balancing, but not a smart one. What is it that made Bowsercide, or Bowser himself for that matter, so OP that it needed to punish Bowser players? This is why I stand by the idea of just forcing Sudden Death as a nerf rather than just killing Bowser first.

It's a nerf for nerf's sake and does nothing more than needlessly hinder a character more than necessary. Bowser was perfectly fine. They probably just took For Glory results of Bowser players winning vs scrubs and saying "herp derp bowser super OP and must be stopped!"

 

[S_B]

After watching this video and the remainder of the matches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgA6xWbMusM&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw&index=74

I'm worried that they will start to declare Bowsercide not a win any longer. I mean, after someone Bowsercides, will they still declare it a loss after the opponent jumps back up and grabs the ledge, especially when Bowser was a stock ahead?

 

[Raiden mk-II]

Buggy Bowsercide needs to be fixed for v1.0.5 or later patch. Or just remove the ability of either player to steer the move in the air and just have Bowser jump straight up and come straight down. I don't know why the move was made controllable in the first place.

 

[S_B]

Buggy Bowsercide needs to be fixed for v1.0.5 or later patch. Or just remove the ability of either player to steer the move in the air and just have Bowser jump straight up and come straight down. I don't know why the move was made controllable in the first place.

It made 0 sense in Brawl, but now that it actually hits other players, there IS cause to try to drop it on others.

Also, Bowser will try to land it on the top platform in Battlefield.

But I agree: remove the steering and have it perform normally. If you can successfully klaw someone OFF-stage, you deserve the kill and they're an idiot for not hitting you with an aerial...

 

[Flayl]

The reason why I played Smash Bros compared to other fighting games is because it requires me to think in the first place.

Your snobby attitude is misplaced.

 

[S_B]

It's an attempt at balancing, but not a smart one. What is it that made Bowsercide, or Bowser himself for that matter, so OP that it needed to punish Bowser players? This is why I stand by the idea of just forcing Sudden Death as a nerf rather than just killing Bowser first.

It's a nerf for nerf's sake and does nothing more than needlessly hinder a character more than necessary. Bowser was perfectly fine. They probably just took For Glory results of Bowser players winning vs scrubs and saying "herp derp bowser super OP and must be stopped!"

And there are fewer Bowser players (who are probably better players) as opposed to the hordes of LM players who are awful but play him as a FOTM...

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Short of removing Bowser himself, Nintendo cannot stop me from playing the greatest final boss in the universe. That said, I'll need to test the general percent lead or disadvantage we need to look out for before attempting a Klaw. It was way too easy for people to send me the full distance despite the opponent only having 5% less damage than me, though that was only with the aerial klaw.

 

[Smearglangelo]

Bowsercide isn't gone, it's just in favor of the opponent now.

 

[SuperLuigi9624]

I'm personally okay with it. Yeah, competitively, it was good, but hey. It's a game. Games are meant to be played for fun. And what ruined the fun? Some unskilled Bowser who probably doesn't even know what a forward smash is jumping off the stage when you have one stock.

 

[B!squick]

I'm personally okay with it. Yeah, competitively, it was good, but hey. It's a game. Games are meant to be played for fun. And what ruined the fun? Some unskilled Bowser who probably doesn't even know what a forward smash is jumping off the stage when you have one stock.

Well, you had to be losing to get to that point. Who's the unskilled person again?

 

[Foodies]

Not sure if this has been said before, but it's possible that the change's intent was a glitch fix rather than for balance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llwSOCOhJ_8

I'm speculating :v

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Foodies One does not simply klaw someone's courage.

 

[Hitman JT]

I'm personally okay with it. Yeah, competitively, it was good, but hey. It's a game. Games are meant to be played for fun. And what ruined the fun? Some unskilled Bowser who probably doesn't even know what a forward smash is jumping off the stage when you have one stock.

Who's more unskilled in that scenario; the Bowser player that uses it, or the victim that got grabbed and failed to avoid getting kamikaze'd?

 

[S_B]

Bowsercide isn't gone, it's just in favor of the opponent now.

Then we have to start calling it "Koopinasia"...

 

[B!squick]

Then we have to start calling it "Koopinasia"...

I love you.

 

[SuperLuigi9624]

Who's more unskilled in that scenario; the Bowser player that uses it, or the victim that got grabbed and failed to avoid getting kamikaze'd?

Well, you had to be losing to get to that point. Who's the unskilled person again?

Clearly the Bowser. There's a difference between having fun and not having fun, and I'm not about to stand in the middle of a stage spamming whatever just to win, so we're getting nothing out of some overly competitive Bowser who all he wants to do is win and spends three minutes spamming one move just to bring up his raaaaaaaaaaaaaaankiiiiiiiiings...

 

[Hitman JT]

Clearly the Bowser. There's a difference between having fun and not having fun, and I'm not about to stand in the middle of a stage spamming whatever just to win, so we're getting nothing out of some overly competitive Bowser who all he wants to do is win and spends three minutes spamming one move just to bring up his raaaaaaaaaaaaaaankiiiiiiiiings...

So the Bowser is the lesser player because YOU failed to hold the other direction and avoid getting bodied?
My scrub-sense is tingling

 

[SuperLuigi9624]

So the Bowser is the lesser player because YOU failed to hold the other direction and avoid getting bodied?
My scrub-sense is tingling

Oh, by the way, I don't know how long it's been, but Bowser's influence is based on the weight. Now Bowser has full control over a heavily damaged Jigglypuff.

Call me a scrub if you will, I take pride in my indestructible self-esteem, and I'm not breaking any walls over controllable pixels on a screen. Good day.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Oh, by the way, I don't know how long it's been, but Bowser's influence is based on the weight. Now Bowser has full control over a heavily damaged Jigglypuff.

Call me a scrub if you will, I take pride in my indestructible self-esteem, and I'm not breaking any walls over controllable pixels on a screen. Good day.

Wait, so what was the point in complaining about people complaining about a nerf that's old and moldy by now? Most Bowsers active here on this side of the forum don't go to For Glory for ranking, but to practice match up strategies. The only time any of us use klaw to the exclusion of other options is during friendlies where learning takes a back seat to shenanigans, nerf or no nerf. Otherwise, the only time we care about rankings is in actual tournaments.

Also, didn't someone here say that Charizard hard counters Bowser? You shouldn't be having any issue.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Klaw only really good on a punish for shield abusers, but in most cases Fortress is the go to move for punishers. Punishs pretty much everything, especially rolls. If anything the nerf is just going to make Bowser players play smarter. Which only serves to make us Bowser players even more scary.

 

[Raiden mk-II]

Klaw only really good on a punish for shield abusers, but in most cases Fortress is the go to move for punishers. Punishs pretty much everything, especially rolls. If anything the nerf is just going to make Bowser players play smarter. Which only serves to make us Bowser players even more scary.

If our ability to kill at as low as 52% does not make us scary, non-Bowserciding-reliant players will.

 

[M.C.Jeducation]

It kind of sucks that the bowsercide is pretty much useless now, but honestly I don't see it as too much of a blow to bowser. The grab was slow anyway and I found myself only really using it against people online who didn't know what they were doing.