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Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Ultimate feels stale
It very much does. Doesn't help that it's more or less the same engine as Smash 4 but with things sped up a little. And Smash 4 itself takes a lot of cues from Brawl but, again, a bit faster and with less tripping.

We have been playing what is essentially variations of Brawl for the past 17 years. It's time for something fresh.
 
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Guynamednelson

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We have been playing what is essentially variations of Brawl for the past 17 years.
Actually I think Melee might've been the only time Smash's gameplay engine got a major upgrade, because compare how run speeds in Smash 64 are measured vs....every other game in the series:
Plus according to Brawl's development, the new team Sakurai hired was given access to not only all the assets from Melee's development, but also they were using the same SDK.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Actually I think Melee might've been the only time Smash's gameplay engine got a major upgrade, because compare how run speeds in Smash 64 are measured vs....every other game in the series:
Plus according to Brawl's development, the new team Sakurai hired was given access to not only all the assets from Melee's development, but also they were using the same SDK.
Yeah but the difference between Melee and Brawl is like, night and day. It may be the same engine but these games do not feel the same.

Compare that to Brawl and Smash 4 or Smash 4 and Ultimate which feel a lot safer in comparison.
 
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Will

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How did it feel when the 3DS camera turned on? Was it worth the grind?


It very much does. Doesn't help that it's more or less the same engine as Smash 4 but with things sped up a little. And Smash 4 itself takes a lot of cues from Brawl but, again, a bit faster and with less tripping.

We have been playing what is essentially variations of Brawl for the past 17 years. It's time for something fresh.
That feels to me like saying Street Fighter has been playing variations of Street Fighter IV for the past 17 years, or that Tekken has been playing variations of Tekken 5 for the past 20, all while the “fresh” additions to the franchises have become ignored as they become more assimilated within their audiences over the years.

How the hell do you come to the conclusion that Ultimate is a variation of Brawl? It is a night and day difference of not only gameplay, but gameplay mechanics. :191:
 

Thegameandwatch

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Yeah but the difference between Melee and Brawl is like, night and day. It may be the same engine but these games do not feel the same.
It feels like Brawl was basically made mostly from stretch with the characters being ported and significantly modified to the point of most of them being very different.

Especially since some mechanics in Melee that weren’t discovered until much later (even after Smash 4) were removed in Brawl.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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I think if you make attacks feel good and general movement fast/organic enough, most fans will be generally okay with Smash changing things up. Tripping wasn't ideal in Brawl, but it was the slower overall feel that really impacted my enjoyment of the game (to the point where it'll probably be the SSB I'll be least likely to go back to).

MK World is in general a pretty solid model to work off; you can largely play it like a typical Mario Kart title if you wish, but there is a broad expansion of that for players that want something more. You do a variation of that for Smash 6 on some respect and much of the potential antipathy at changes can be mitigated.
 
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Kirby Dragons

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I posted this on the last page, but had no response. If this makes any sense, would anyone be willing to give any thoughts on this?
I mean, I think it's obvious enough to not bully others for wanting less popular characters. There's also a good chance a few less popular characters will be made into newcomers, but it's entirely up to the devs to decide that, since popularity (obviously) isn't a metric.
 

Oracle Link

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1000001956.png

What about yugo +7 other eliatrope skins for smash?
Like wakfu/doofus started out as a game right?
Their portals and wakfu weapons could make for a great moveset!

Sadidas or the bow species could be interesting too!
Normal Iops would be pretty bland sadly although percedrall by himself with all his stuff could be very cool!

Also theres a new season after 5 years!
 

Noipoi

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What about yugo +7 other eliatrope skins for smash?
Like wakfu/doofus started out as a game right?
Their portals and wakfu weapons could make for a great moveset!

Sadidas or the bow species could be interesting too!
Normal Iops would be pretty bland sadly although percedrall by himself with all his stuff could be very cool!

Also theres a new season after 5 years!
Wakfu did start as a game, but was the character Yugo made for the show?
 

PeridotGX

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It very much does. Doesn't help that it's more or less the same engine as Smash 4 but with things sped up a little. And Smash 4 itself takes a lot of cues from Brawl but, again, a bit faster and with less tripping.

We have been playing what is essentially variations of Brawl for the past 17 years. It's time for something fresh.
You got me thinking about some of the things they could/should do to make the next smash game feel fresher. Obviously they could do some big mechanical or graphical overhauls, but I think I have two relatively simple additions that would have a pretty big impact.
  • Give every series a new victory theme. From 64 -> Melee -> Brawl, they redid all the victory themes every game, but ever since they've mostly stuck with the Brawl ones. Wipe the slate clean and do new fanfares for everything, even if it's just a re-arrangement of the old one (bonus points if they give every character their own theme, something they've sorta been working on).
  • New announcer. No disrespect to Xander Mobus, he's done a pretty good job, but he's the only announcer that's done two games. Maybe he can be a bonus secondary announcer (he's probably coming back anyways to record new lines for Joker), but I would want the main announcer to be someone new.
 

Thegameandwatch

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You got me thinking about some of the things they could/should do to make the next smash game feel fresher. Obviously they could do some big mechanical or graphical overhauls, but I think I have two relatively simple additions that would have a pretty big impact.
  • Give every series a new victory theme. From 64 -> Melee -> Brawl, they redid all the victory themes every game, but ever since they've mostly stuck with the Brawl ones. Wipe the slate clean and do new fanfares for everything, even if it's just a re-arrangement of the old one (bonus points if they give every character their own theme, something they've sorta been working on).
  • New announcer. No disrespect to Xander Mobus, he's done a pretty good job, but he's the only announcer that's done two games. Maybe he can be a bonus secondary announcer (he's probably coming back anyways to record new lines for Joker), but I would want the main announcer to be someone new.
Another would be the voice lines since several of them have been the same since Brawl. It will likely happen with Mario, Luigi and Wario but not sure about the rest.
 

Will

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Now voice lines and victory themes being recycled for the past 16 years? I see that as a valid complaint. I used to believe that a massive redub would only happen if Charles Martinet stepped down as the plumbers… and then he did. :mybodyisreggie:

I would love all characters to have a personalized theme. A lot of characters have earned that individuality imo, I’m sure lots of people agree.
 
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Oracle Link

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Wakfu did start as a game, but was the character Yugo made for the show?
Yes he was thats why hes an alt just like advent children cloud!
The game is an mmo right? So just do the animal crossing thing! 7 eliatropes with yago as dwfault for recognizability!
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Yes he was thats why hes an alt just like advent children cloud!
The game is an mmo right? So just do the animal crossing thing! 7 eliatropes with yago as dwfault for recognizability!
There's a difference between having a videogame character use a design from a non-videogame (in this case Advent Children Cloud but Ash-Greninja is another good example) and a character who originates from a non-gaming adaptation of a gaming IP.

If we were to really blur the line like that, Pokemon Trainer would've been Ash Ketchum because he's arguably way more iconic than Red and Leaf.
 
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Will

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There's a difference between having a videogame character use a design from a non-videogame (in this case Advent Children Cloud but Ash-Greninja is another good example) and a character who originates from a non-gaming adaptation of a gaming IP.

If we were to really blur the line like that, Pokemon Trainer would've been Ash Ketchum because he's arguably way more iconic than Red and Leaf.
Do you ever think about why they don’t explicitly call them Red and Leaf? :191:
 

SPEN18

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Alongside this, Sacred Stones is also getting added to GBA NSO.

Perhaps quietly, one of the better FEs. I mean, the GBA FE engine is just very fundamentally sound, satisfying to play, and well-aging in general. But aside from that, this game must get credit for refining some of the map, skirmish, and side content ideas from Gaiden and having unprecedented postgame content. It gets some hate for the lower difficulty, I mean this game allows you to grind between battles, but still curves out easier than other FEs even if you don't take advantage of any grinding (and even if you only minimally use the infamously broken Seth). But, ya know, sometimes I'm in the mood for that, and it makes it potentially easier to get into for newer players.
 

smashkirby

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Here is something I wish to say...

In terms of popular characters, I wonder, while it is not wrong inherently to root for such characters to get into a Smash Bros. game, is it wrong to cast less popular (but not necessarily hated) characters aside in favor of the popular characters and go as far as to pick on those who want characters that are not popular? I mean, even the less popular characters, like say Wart from Super Mario Bros. 2 USA and Captain Syrup from Wario Land, could make good characters, which not everyone knows. Those two are just examples, of course, but I feel that not many who don't know who such characters are realize their potential, and those people who want more popular characters and pick on others who want the less popular ones are not being good sports and are not being friendly and are just mean, especially when such characters could play in interesting ways, probably more so than the popular characters themselves. There may be popular picks, but not every character has to be popular to be in Smash and work well.
I mean, I'm someone who has very much supported the idea of less popular characters joining Smash as playable characters, 1st party and 3rd party alike. What's more, I'd prefer people don't get bullied for their picks, no matter who it is.

All of that being said, Sakurai has made it clear that just being popular doesn't get you into Smash anyways (though, all the same, it's a HUGE benefit). I have to admit though... I'd be lying if I said that, after the Piranha Plant, I wasn't a tad nervous that Sakurai might avoid GENUINELY obscure/niche options for playable characters going forward.

Say what you will about the Plant, but as Sakurai himself said, it's still a pretty well-known character all the same...
 

Nabbitfan730

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We have been playing what is essentially variations of Brawl
*64. The code and engine has been same but tweaked over the years. Melee the same 64, Brawl same as Melee, 4 and Ult are self-explanatory

Also i'm going to be contrarian and disagree with the consensus. Unless its going to be a huge dramatic shake-up like a 3D Smash akin to Power Stone or Virtual-On, i rather have things be more or less the same. Especially when the cost means losing an entire slate of characters, half if not more just, for them to replaced with recency bias and shill picks. Not for $80

Something shaken and new =/= good. Sticker Star, Boom, or even games like SWSH were fresh "shake-ups". Smash's strength and dropped ball as other series is due to its consistency.

Not saying it should be the same game, Ultimate could use changes to new game like improved buffer, input lag and online but still same core Smash experience.

Also keep the orchestra. Smash Bros is meant to be a grand ceremony. Let it sound like it too unless you change to something crazy like hard rock, metal or something like an anime opening.

I would KILL and SLAUGHTER for Smash Opening sung by Hironbu Kagayama. Fighting Stars for Jump Stars always felt better as Smash theme than the former
 
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CosmicEternity44

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I mean, I think it's obvious enough to not bully others for wanting less popular characters. There's also a good chance a few less popular characters will be made into newcomers, but it's entirely up to the devs to decide that, since popularity (obviously) isn't a metric.

I mean, I'm someone who has very much supported the idea of less popular characters joining Smash as playable characters, 1st party and 3rd party alike. What's more, I'd prefer people don't get bullied for their picks, no matter who it is.

All of that being said, Sakurai has made it clear that just being popular doesn't get you into Smash anyways (though, all the same, it's a HUGE benefit). I have to admit though... I'd be lying if I said that, after the Piranha Plant, I wasn't a tad nervous that Sakurai might avoid GENUINELY obscure/niche options for playable characters going forward.

Say what you will about the Plant, but as Sakurai himself said, it's still a pretty well-known character all the same...
I pretty much agree with those thoughts. Thing is as if being numerous in number was not enough, less popular or well known characters are often not rated high in terms of chances of getting in. With that, and other factors to consider, you never know when a less popular character will get in or who it will be.

I do prefer people to not get bullied for their wants, no matter who it may be. A popular character does not get in over a less popular character? There is always DLC or the next game. There does not have to be much worry or stress if one character wanted is not in the game.
 

Loungemen

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We live in an age where people will just complain about anything that doesn't go their way, and it makes me realize how much I miss the Melee days when you don't know who Marth or Roy was, but you didn't care. Even on message boards and forums people were hyping who the next character was.

Ultimate sure spoiled us to the point where people are still in denial that there's gonna be an Ultimate Deluxe as if third-party licensing struggles is foreign to them.

Speculation for the next game is gonna be Tarnished, there's gonna be people who are gonna use AI to fake their leaks and convince everyone it's real, while we just solemnly sit there, reminiscing about how Toad was a secret Melee character.

Rant over, for now
 

ninjahmos

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I still think both the website and the unlockable characters for the next Smash game should be given the Smash Dojo treatment, like they used to for Brawl. The unlockable characters (at least newcomers) should remain a mystery for people until they get the game and play it.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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Speaking of more niche and obscure characters, i'm glad Masaki and Cybuster are confirmed to be returning in the new Super robot wars entry because that gives them more of a presence outside of japan. lol

Looking forward to the Godzilla ultimate bossfight in that new game.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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*64. The code and engine has been same but tweaked over the years. Melee the same 64, Brawl same as Melee, 4 and Ult are self-explanatory
They switched from something made in-house for 64 and Melee to using Havok since Brawl so already, from a physics engine perspective, this sentence is wrong. Admittedly, a lot of the codes could still transfer over but saying Smash had the same engine in its entire history is incorrect.

And even so, the way codes can be tweaked can lead to entire different vibes. You can't reasonably say that Melee, a fast-paced high-octane game with loads of crazy technical combos, plays the same as Brawl, a slow methodical game where combos don't exist because of a universal combo breaker that's way too easy to abuse. They have the same goal but the means to achieve said goal is fundamentally different between the two of them.

Even with similar code, two games can be and feel entirely different just by changing numbers. And there's a lot more that can be done to make two games different despite using the same code and engine. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess actually have the same engine, for example.

This is the kind of thing I want to see for the next Smash. They don't need to start over with everything, but tweak more numbers than usual for a fresher experience. And maybe some artstyle shift. Bring back the Brawl aesthetic. It would ****ing rule in a console with the Switch 2's power!

Also i'm going to be contrarian and disagree with the consensus. Unless its going to be a huge dramatic shake-up like a 3D Smash akin to Power Stone or Virtual-On, i rather have things be more or less the same. Especially when the cost means losing an entire slate of characters, half if not more just, for them to replaced with recency bias and shill picks. Not for $80
The problem is that since most of the Switch era was skipped, there is plenty of picks from that era who can be used. Regardless of how they design the next Smash, whether they play it safe by barely changing anything or doing some shake-ups, you will see what you call "recency bias and shill picks" because this is how Smash usually runs.

Just look at Brawl and Smash 4's newcomer roster. A lot of newcomers for them were about using stuff that happened since Melee and Brawl respectively. Brawl was able to pull beyond that due to how relatively young and small Melee's roster was, leaving a lot of gaps such as Wario or Diddy Kong. Not so much by the time we got to Smash 4.

Ultimate took the route of fan demand because the Ballot allowed it to, but that Ballot is very outdated now and may not be representative of what today's fandom wants. I would not be shocked if Sakurai returned to how he picked his newcomer options for Brawl and Smash 4.

Something shaken and new =/= good. Sticker Star, Boom, or even games like SWSH were fresh "shake-ups". Smash's strength and dropped ball as other series is due to its consistency.
Yeah but there's also been a lot of good shakeups in history. Mario 64, Metroid Prime and Ocarina of Time were legendary shake-ups whose effects are still felt today. And even for something less drastic, Odyssey making a grand return to a less linear gameplay loop 3D Marios hadn't seen since Sunshine was heavily praised.

I'm not saying Smash getting a shakeup is guaranteed to be good, but it's also not guaranteed to be bad either.

Not saying it should be the same game, Ultimate could use changes to new game like improved buffer, input lag and online but still same core Smash experience.
Well, do you want the same game or not? I'm getting mixed signals here.

I do agree with these changes though.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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Do you think, now that Crafted World is firmly in the rear view mirror, they’ll ditch the skin and bring back Black Yoshi?
Apropos of nothing, but I'd love for Yoshi (or I guess a fighter that would fit the gimmick) to get the Amiibo skin concept in Smash. One of the really fun things in Wooly World was unlocking the various themed patterns for Yoshi, including from scanned Amiibo and having that concept for one or many skins of them in SSB would be a nice touch.
 
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