Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

Ike was chosen in Brawl to be "Someone from Fire Emblem"

I'm starting to think some of Sakurai's quotes shouldn't be taken 100% literally and interpreted based on what he DIDN'T say. That could mean that he was looking for someone from Fire Emblem and logically (like any game designer with a brain cell) came to the decision of Ike. He didn't say that he randomly picked Ike from a dart board because he just "wanted someone from Fire Emblem"

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm starting to think some of Sakurai's quotes shouldn't be taken 100% literally and interpreted based on what he DIDN'T say. That could mean that he was looking for someone from Fire Emblem and logically (like any game designer with a brain cell) came to the decision of Ike.

That's what Push is saying.

I'm not sure why you're getting on his case for that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That's what Push is saying.

I'm not sure why you're getting on his case for that.

I wasn't getting on his case.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wasn't getting on his case.

It came off to me that way.

Error in communication then.

 

[RineYFD]

I know its too early for an Actual Smash game to be announced but since there are rumors going around and Reggie apparently leaking it, I thought it would be fun to speculate with a bunch of people. Also what ddo you think it will be announced at? If its a port then for me its at E3 2017/18. If its an entirely a new game then E3 2019/20.

My roster:
-All characters from S3DS/Wii U
-All veterans that were cut
-The Inkling from Splatoon
-Spring Man from ARMS
- Shovel Knight
-Shantae
-King K. Rool from Donkey Kong Country
-Geno from Super Mario RPG
-Ray-man
-Decidueye from Pokémon Sun and Moon
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Isaac from Golden Sun
-Lana from Hyrule Warriors
-Wonder Red from The Wonderful 101
-Sora from Kingdom Hearts(Most wanted out of all)/A Dragon Quest character/ a Bravery Default character (Second representation for Square Enix)
-Lloyd/Klonoa(Second Namco Bandai representation).
No flaming and trolls please. You may have debates but only civil and calm ones.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

My roster:
-All characters from S3DS/Wii U
-All veterans that were cut
-The Inkling from Splatoon
-Spring Man from ARMS
- Shovel Knight
-Shantae
-King K. Rool from Donkey Kong Country
-Geno from Super Mario RPG
-Ray-man
-Decidueye from Pokémon Sun and Moon
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Isaac from Golden Sun
-Lana from Hyrule Warriors
-Wonder Red from The Wonderful 101
-Sora from Kingdom Hearts(Most wanted out of all)/A Dragon Quest character/ a Bravery Default character (Second representation for Square Enix)
-Lloyd/Klonoa(Second Namco Bandai representation).
No flaming and trolls please. You may have debates but only civil and calm ones.

A bit unrealistic but...

I'd be down for this.

 

[RineYFD]

Thanks. I picked characters that I thought would be likely. Sora was mainly picked because Kingdom Hearts 3 is being hyped up, Kingdom Hearts has appeared on Nintendo 4 times, and it could possibly be on the Switch. The only problem is licensing from Disney but people say that Square has all rights to original KH characters so I didn't know. In the end I also putted in Bravery Characters like Shovel Knight and Shantae were picked since they were high on the Ballot. Characters like Decidueye, Spring Man and the Inkling were picked because they are relevant and putting them in could advertise the games.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I know its too early for an Actual Smash game to be announced but since there are rumors going around and Reggie apparently leaking it, I thought it would be fun to speculate with a bunch of people. Also what ddo you think it will be announced at? If its a port then for me its at E3 2017/18. If its an entirely a new game then E3 2019/20.

My roster:
-All characters from S3DS/Wii U
-All veterans that were cut
-The Inkling from Splatoon
-Spring Man from ARMS
- Shovel Knight
-Shantae
-King K. Rool from Donkey Kong Country
-Geno from Super Mario RPG
-Ray-man
-Decidueye from Pokémon Sun and Moon
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Isaac from Golden Sun
-Lana from Hyrule Warriors
-Wonder Red from The Wonderful 101
-Sora from Kingdom Hearts(Most wanted out of all)/A Dragon Quest character/ a Bravery Default character (Second representation for Square Enix)
-Lloyd/Klonoa(Second Namco Bandai representation).
No flaming and trolls please. You may have debates but only civil and calm ones.

Here are a few personal opinions.

Banjo-Kazooie: Not many people would say what I'm about to say, but if the head honcho of Microsoft XBox says he's okay with the Bear and Bird team from the Rareware era being in Smash, they have a chance. How much of a chance, I don't know, but I wouldn't mind seeing them in.

Lana: Eh, I have a little bit of doubt, but it's possible. She might be a contender for a Zelda newcomer if they could figure out a movesets for her tomes.

Wonder Red: I remember when Sakurai confirmed that he was not going to be playable for Smash 4. A lot of people were disappointed, then there was me, who was a bit surprised that he didn't make him playable, and I didn't even buy into W101. Still, I'd be interested in seeing what Nintendo can do for his moveset.

Spring Man: I think he has/deserves a shot, but I've seen some people say they doubt ARMS will get any representation in the next Smash. Personally I wouldn't go that far. We still don't know that much about ARMS anyway.

Inkling: I have every confidence that the Inkling will be playable. With how popular Splatoon was for the Wii U, I don't think Nintendo would ignore the fans pleas for them being added, and this is coming from someone who didn't even bother buying Splatoon.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Time to go through this in order.

- Correction: Final Fantasy 7 has never been on a Nintendo console. Cloud himself has, through games like Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy Explorers, and Theaterhythm.
- I could see a Ken alt happening, though lately Ken has deviated a little from Ryu. Not much, but still.
- Yes, they were too lazy to make new characters...so they gave us three new characters. Perfectly sound logic. No bias at all. Nope.
- ESRB and CERO didn't think so.
(Decidueye) - Decidueye has more than enough merits of its own. Completing the starter types likely isn't Sakurai's goal.
- It makes sense thematically. Lots of characters do things that aren't strictly canon. It's not like it's impossible for the Koopalings to use a Clown Car...but that's moot since they actually have.
- When Daisy actually offers something more than being a Peach color swap, then she has a relevant say in Smash.


Plus, your points against Cloud and Bayonetta would be potentially fair points if they were never in Smash before. They were though, so they're moot.

I don't mean to be that guy, but Oppossum, do try not to fall back into Smashboards bad habit of thinking Daisy can't be unique when the sports games show she can be, and that's also without stepping on Waluigi's toes to much if he has to have a moveset based around the sports games as well.. And let's leave it at that.

Also I saw Shadow being discussed, now leaving aside whether a 2nd rep for third party series will happen or not, which I personally think they won't, Shadow will never be playable because if adapt into Smash, Sakurai would want to implement Shadow's gameplay style from his game, which means Shadow would end up having realistic guns, which is a big no no in Smash. And he won't ever be an alt for Sonic, cause he's a separate character, so that means a different contract will have to written up, and since what is required to make him unique, he won't ever be playable in Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Shadow has shown off tons of uniqueness in Sonic Battle and Sonic 06 without using guns, while still keeping the same overall personality. It can be done. However, don't forget that Shadow has tons of unrealistic weapons that are usable too. The alien weapons, the Chao Gun, his own Shadow Rifle, the laser-type weapons... They could even just have him pull out guns that are normal items instead, with less ammo, as an actual B move. Akin to Peach's Down B. It's not realistic weapons, it's more that he is able to easily use weapons because he has a military base background.

For the record, I don't think he'll get in(or any other Sonic characters, unless they've completely spun off into their own main world. Like Yoshi and Wario did). Shadow is my personal pick, but everybody has bias.

 

[N3ON]

I don't mean to be that guy, but Oppossum, do try not to fall back into Smashboards bad habit of thinking Daisy can't be unique when the sports games show she can be, and that's also without stepping on Waluigi's toes to much if he has to have a moveset based around the sports games as well.. And let's leave it at that.

Also I saw Shadow being discussed, now leaving aside whether a 2nd rep for third party series will happen or not, which I personally think they won't, Shadow will never be playable because if adapt into Smash, Sakurai would want to implement Shadow's gameplay style from his game, which means Shadow would end up having realistic guns, which is a big no no in Smash. And he won't ever be an alt for Sonic, cause he's a separate character, so that means a different contract will have to written up, and since what is required to make him unique, he won't ever be playable in Smash.

Your arguments almost contradict each other. You want people to look at side games for Daisy. Have them look there for Shadow as well. It need not all be derived from his one titular appearance.

Both Daisy and Shadow can be made unique pretty easily without changing any game rating. Most characters can be made unique. Whether they should be is another matter, when there are better choices from each series as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Your arguments almost contradict each other. You want people to look at side games for Daisy. Have them look there for Shadow as well. It need not all be derived from his one titular appearance.

Both Daisy and Shadow can be made unique pretty easily without changing any game rating. Most characters can be made unique. Whether they should be is another matter, when there are better choices from each series as far as I'm concerned.

whoa, whoa, I'm not really sure where your coming from, when my point with Daisy was that she can be unique, nothing about whether she'll get in or not. And beside Daisy is just one of the options Sakurai could decide to use if he wanted to choose a Mario sports character, I mean the choices for the sports characters are actually quite large, but most people default to Waluigi or Daisy, I mean after all Birdo could be used as the character to show how the sports games could be adapted into Smash. Its just merely most people prefer Daisy or Waluigi.

And furthering my point with Shadow, remember the ways that Shadow has deviated from Sonic, cause in Sonic 06 he's using guns like he was in he his game, I just kind of get the feeling for him being unique Sakurai would want to use the guns he commonly has in his game, which are usually the realistic firearms, since there the ones most people find first.

Also you wouldn't really be pulling from side games, since Sega counts Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 as part of the main series of Sonic, so I don't really see your point with Shadow about pulling from the side games.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For the record, Shadow and 06 are part of the main continuity/story. It's the handhelds on the GBA that were more side stories at best. Ignoring the non-canon rpg game. Battle tied fully in to the story, but is treated as more of a side game at best. It actually is supposed to go Adventure 1 > Adventure 2 > Heroes > Shadow > 06(this game is written out of continuity due to time shenanigans, but is still a canon game nonetheless) > Unleashed > Colors > Generations > Lost World. That's since the Dreamcast era. It's generally accepted that the first two Advance games happen either after Adventure 1 or 2, but clearly before Heroes. Battle's timeline implies it happens after Shadow, due to the hedgehog himself being far weaker, resting from a long battle. It also clearly needs to happen after Heroes, due to them mentioning how much Gamma looks like Omega.

Battle is a side game overall, not a key part of the main story, and you could remove it and still keep all the continuity stuff intact, bar the issues that happen with poor writing causing contradictions to some degree.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai would want to implement Shadow's gameplay style from his game, which means Shadow would end up having realistic guns, which is a big no no in Smash.

.....his game features non-realistic laser-shooting alien firearms that can be used in place of the more realistic bullet-shooting military guns.

If the issue is that Sakurai wouldn't want to include him without representing the firearm aspect of his game, he can just use the Black Arms weaponry.

Both Daisy and Shadow can be made unique pretty easily without changing any game rating.

I know the actual context behind this, but now I just had the idea of Daisy somehow being more potentially hazardous to the age rating than Bayonetta due to the wording. 0_o

.....never want that imagery in my head again.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Personally, I think I'd rather see Reyn in the next Smash than Shadow. Here's a moveset I could see for him.

B: Aura Burst
Side B: Bone Upper
Up B: War Swing (Similar to Spinning Kong, Spin Attack, and Whirling Fortress)
Down B: Wild Down (Inflicts damage, breaks shields if timed right)
Final Smash: Magnum Charge (Similar to Mega Evolve or Wario-Man)

One of his taunts found be his famous line "Man, what a buncha jokers!"

 

[Deleted member]

You know you can just like....not post whenever the subject is on a character from the Sonic series, right?

Difficult concept to grasp, I know. But I'm sure you're capable of it.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

You know you can just like....not post whenever the subject is on a character from the Sonic series, right?

Difficult concept to grasp, I know. But I'm sure you're capable of it.

Dude, I just posted about Xenoblade Chronicles, barely even mentioning Shadow in the first place.

Subtitle: Let it go!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Subtitle: Let it go!

That isn't a subtitle.

Regardless, I have no idea how your Reyn moveset actually works. You need more detail.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Regardless, I have no idea how your Reyn moveset actually works. You need more detail.

Have you ever played Xenoblade Chronicles before?

If so, you'll notice that Sakurai incorporated Shulk's moveset out of arts a littleness differently than how they originally were in the game.

For example, Air Slash: In the game Xenoblade Chronicles, it looks almost nothing like a recovery move, it's just an upward sword slash that inflicts Break. Yet in Smash, Sakurai made it a recovery move with two slashes.

Reyn's War Swing damages any enemies within a certain radius in the game. Perhaps that can be made into a recovery move like Sakurai did with the Spin Attack. Reyn's weapon isn't even a sword. More like a shield/Lance hybrid thingy.

For a Final Smash, Reyn's own Chain attack could also work, but that's not very unique, so I thought of Magnum Charge. In XC, Magnum Charge boosts the damage dealt for the next art Reyn uses. I feel like Smash can incorporate that similar to Lucario's mega evolution by Reyn using Magnum Charge to boost damage dealt by his attacks in a similar way for a few seconds.

Bone Upper is a basic attack where Reyn makes a similar arm uppercut motion to Captain Falcons Raptor Boost. I can see it as some similar move, only its slower, Reyn doesn't move forward at all, and he can charge it for a bit.

Wild Down is an attack Reyn uses to topple enemies suffering Break. He does this by jabbing his shield/Lance hybrid weapon at the target's feet. In the similar fashion to Topple, that's why I was thinking of shield breaking.

As for Aura Burst, that's probably not a good idea after second thought. I didn't want to use Sword Drive because I thought that would be too similar to Marth's Shield Breaker. There IS something called Lariat that I remember Reyn using to damage enemies in his front in XC, but to ensure it's not some sort of Deus Ex Machina thing, maybe they might put something to it that you use it in moderation a la R.O.B.'s Robo Beam.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Have you ever played Xenoblade Chronicles before?

If so, you'll notice that Sakurai incorporated Shulk's moveset out of arts a littleness differently than how they originally were in the game.

I've played Xenoblade Chronicles and beaten it. I know where Shulk's moves come from, but I need more info on how they work in Smash.

Regardless, your moves seem to just be taken from other characters. I know they're based on moves from Xenoblade that Reyn has but when you're idea is basically "kind of like this" it doesn't paint a pretty picture.


Why not make a Reyn moveset that focuses on his main playstyle from Xenoblade? A complete defensive wall/turtle? That could provide something truly interesting and unique.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I've played Xenoblade Chronicles and beaten it. I know where Shulk's moves come from, but I need more info on how they work in Smash.

Regardless, your moves seem to just be taken from other characters. I know they're based on moves from Xenoblade that Reyn has but when you're idea is basically "kind of like this" it doesn't paint a pretty picture.


Why not make a Reyn moveset that focuses on his main playstyle from Xenoblade? A complete defensive wall/turtle? That could provide something truly interesting and unique.

Well, sorry that it sounds confusing. I just don't have any friends or family who work for Nintendo. The only times I've ever spoken with a Nintendo employee were phone calls to customer service, who are the ones you'd least expect to know how movesets are created. I can picture the moves being unique, but I'm not sure how to describe what they look like in my head.

And as you can obviously tell, I'm not Masahiro Sakurai.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, sorry that it sounds confusing. I just don't have any friends or family who work for Nintendo. The only times I've ever spoken with a Nintendo employee were phone calls to customer service, who are the ones you'd least expect to know how movesets are created. I can picture the moves being unique, but I'm not sure how to describe what they look like in my head.

And as you can obviously tell, I'm not Masahiro Sakurai.

Well yes.

But I know you can try a little harder with this sort of thing.

 

[Spurdo]

.....his game features non-realistic laser-shooting alien firearms that can be used in place of the more realistic bullet-shooting military guns.

If Shadow were to be in Smash there wouldn't be any guns in his moveset, he would mostly have the chaos power aspect of his character.

Regardless, he's a pretty bad choice for a character as far as the Sonic series goes. Like, you'd pick Shadow of all people? Over Tails, Dr Eggman, Knuckles?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Regardless, he's a pretty bad choice for a character as far as the Sonic series goes. Like, you'd pick Shadow of all people? Over Tails, Dr Eggman, Knuckles?

There's actually a logic to it.

Shadow is the most popular character after Sonic.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Well yes.

But I know you can try a little harder with this sort of thing.

Then check with me after I finish up this current semester of college.

 

[Deleted member]

If Shadow were to be in Smash there wouldn't be any guns in his moveset, he would mostly have the chaos power aspect of his character.

My post was a response to someone else's point. I wasn't saying he would have the guns, but merely pointing out that the idea of Sakurai not wanting him without representing that aspect of his game being an issue because of the realistic firearms doesn't make sense as there are options for non-realistic firearms available to use instead if Sakurai is for some reason hell-bent on having him use firearms.

Regardless, he's a pretty bad choice for a character as far as the Sonic series goes. Like, you'd pick Shadow of all people? Over Tails, Dr Eggman, Knuckles?

I'm the wrong person to ask. Since Shadow is actually my favorite character and I have been wanting him to be playable in Smash since Sonic was first revealed for Brawl, of course I would pick him as the next Sonic character if the decision were up to me.

I don't see him as the bad choice that you see him as.

 

[Spurdo]

There's actually a logic to it.

Shadow is the most popular character after Sonic.

I doubt that. That three I mentioned are much more recognizable and iconic. I can't believe that when the classics are the most well known, remembered and well regarded Sonic games. I mean, maybe you're right, when you reduce the demographic to a small portion of Sonic fans.

I'm the wrong person to ask. Since Shadow is actually my favorite character and I have been wanting him to be playable in Smash since Sonic was first revealed for Brawl, of course I would pick him as the next Sonic character if the decision were up to me.

I don't see him as the bad choice that you see him as.

Tails, Knuckles and Dr. Eggman are the original characters in the series, in Tails and Eggman's case they've played pretty important parts in nearly every single Sonic game, they are easily the most iconic characters to come out of Sonic and they're much better to represent the franchise than some rando who's barely in any games, and barely anything well received at that. Shadow just doesn't make any sense considering what options we have. The classics trump everything else, this Shadow meme has gotta die.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I doubt that. That three I mentioned are much more recognizable and iconic. I can't believe that when the classics are the most well known, remembered and well regarded Sonic games. I mean, maybe you're right, when you reduce the demographic to a small portion of Sonic fans.



Tails, Knuckles and Dr. Eggman are the original characters in the series, in Tails and Eggman's case they've played pretty important parts in nearly every single Sonic game, they are easily the most iconic characters to come out of Sonic and they're much better to represent the franchise than some rando who's barely in any games, and barely anything well received at that. Shadow just doesn't make any sense considering what options we have. The classics trump everything else, this Shadow meme has gotta die.

I was gonna bring up that famous poll (By Sega themselves) that had Shadow at number two but then you just go and call Shadow a meme.

First off, learn what words mean.

Second, what?

Like, if I had the choice to include any Sonic character I'd want, I'd go for Tails for a large variety of reasons but just dismissing Shadow as a meme makes your statement stupidly biased.

You seem incredibly dismissive of anything that isn't a classic title. That's not a good reason to just dismiss stuff. The modern games did happen and they do have their fans. A lot of them. Shadow keeps reappearing because he's incredibly popular. I mean they brought him back from his death because he was so popular.

Calling Shadow a meme. Honestly.

 

[Zerp]

I doubt that. That three I mentioned are much more recognizable and iconic. I can't believe that when the classics are the most well known, remembered and well regarded Sonic games. I mean, maybe you're right, when you reduce the demographic to a small portion of Sonic fans.



Tails, Knuckles and Dr. Eggman are the original characters in the series, in Tails and Eggman's case they've played pretty important parts in nearly every single Sonic game, they are easily the most iconic characters to come out of Sonic and they're much better to represent the franchise than some rando who's barely in any games, and barely anything well received at that. Shadow just doesn't make any sense considering what options we have. The classics trump everything else, this Shadow meme has gotta die.

As someone who would heavily prefer Eggman or Tails over him, Shadow probably is still more popular than those two even when you're not looking at the polls, his popularity is in no way a meme.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Shadow's game created memes. He got a game due to his immense popularity. He came back for other games because of his immense popularity. He was not created as a meme, nor is he nothing more than a meme. That's actually closer to Waluigi's most notable feature(and he's actually notable outside of memes too).

And yes, he'd easily my secondary choice. He's one of my favorite Sonic characters and has tons of unique gameplay choices. My actual favorite is Rouge, and overall who'd I pick if she was far more separated from Knuckles(which she sadly isn't) and Tails(same issue). And then there's Metal Sonic, my next guy on the list, but a lot of issues come up due to naming issues alone. The Metal Box, how do you separate the name without using the OVA character name, which may actually be copyrighted to someone besides Sega/Sonic Team. I don't know the details of that movie to some degrees, as I have yet to watch the credits since years ago.

Also, do you honestly think Shadow is the only Sonic-series Assist Trophy for no reason? Yeah, it's cause he's popular. Also, one thing to note is he doesn't have to have guns either. He's a huge chaos user. Like, that's his actual shtick. More notably, this is actually what he's known for more than anything, his role in the games to a point that if it weren't for him, Sonic would never have been able to learn Chaos Control.

Also, I feel the Black Arm guns makes sense too for him to use. He is a Black Arms himself, canonically and all. That and the Shadow Rifle make a ton of sense. I was even inspired to make a really unique Final Smash for him due to this. First, he fires with his Shadow Rifle to enable it, which goes across the whole screen, hitting anyone in the horizontal direction(it is the most powerful weapon in his game, equal to a Chaos Spear, which explains why its hitbox is ridiculous. But to be fair, I'm pretty sure that so are Light Arrow and Dark Pit Staff, so...). After that, he rushes forward with his Samurai Blade, another one of his secret weapons, bringing them into the air. Using Chaos Control, he is able to teleport around, setting up a ton of Chaos Spears, before appearing the ground and letting them all loose while he watches. The only other option I could think of is more of a Wario-Man type version, where his abilities get extra powerful. Chaos Burst becomes Chaos Blast, for instance.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ironically, if I recall correctly, Shadow the Hedgehog gained mostly negative reception, despite being pretty good (it has its flaws, but it's still playable) for my tastes.

Anyway, I feel that Tails should come before Shadow, since he has been Sonic's buddy since Sonic the Hedgehog 2.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

So here are a few predictions I have for the Switch version of Smash

Spoiler

Newcomers:
Bandana Dee- Kirby
Unknown Protagonist: Xenoblade Chronicles 2
Inklings: Splatoon
Decidueye: Pokémon Sun and Moon
2nd Xenoblade Chronicles character from Original game or a XCX character

New Assist Trophies:
Doug Barrett: Xenoblade Chronicles X
Ryoma: Fire Emblem Fates Birthright
Xander: Fire Emblem Fates Conquest
Poochy and Poochy Pups: Poochy and Yoshi's Woolly World
Dark Pit: Kid Icarus Uprising

 

[Deleted member]

Tails, Knuckles and Dr. Eggman are the original characters in the series, in Tails and Eggman's case they've played pretty important parts in nearly every single Sonic game, they are easily the most iconic characters to come out of Sonic and they're much better to represent the franchise than some rando who's barely in any games, and barely anything well received at that. Shadow just doesn't make any sense considering what options we have. The classics trump everything else, this Shadow meme has gotta die.

So much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.

So I'm not even going to bother. It'd just be a huge waste of my time.

And then there's Metal Sonic, my next guy on the list, but a lot of issues come up due to naming issues alone. The Metal Box, how do you separate the name without using the OVA character name, which may actually be copyrighted to someone besides Sega/Sonic Team.

Actually I don't think that'd really matter much. The only time a confusion would possibly come up would be Classic Mode, but you can tell whether the "Metal Sonic" you're up against is the robot or Sonic with the Metal Box anyway.
And then the lulz commence when your opponent is "Metal Metal Sonic".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually I don't think that'd really matter much. The only time a confusion would possibly come up would be Classic Mode, but you can tell whether the "Metal Sonic" you're up against is the robot or Sonic with the Metal Box anyway.
And then the lulz commence when your opponent is "Metal Metal Sonic".

Oh, I'm aware of the joke. Made it myself. But for the sake of not confusing players who aren't the best at thinking/have little common sense, I'd say use Mecha Sonic's design, as a composite of their abilities. He'd make sense as a semi-clone of Sonic, due to being able to go Super.

The fact I think Metal Sonic in Classic Mode should use the proper Metal Sonic skin(ala Sonic Adventure 1) is entirely unrelated. >.>

So much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.

So I'm not even going to bother. It'd just be a huge waste of my time.

I'm not going to necessarily defend him, but this feels dismissive and really unneeded. Just don't reply instead next time. You don't need to get in the last word, really. Don't worry about it. Clearly nobody agrees with his assertions, and if you have a way to prove him wrong, reply. Otherwise, you already won using your facts and logic. You never need to snipe at a user.

And yes, I agree he's wrong.

I doubt that. That three I mentioned are much more recognizable and iconic. I can't believe that when the classics are the most well known, remembered and well regarded Sonic games. I mean, maybe you're right, when you reduce the demographic to a small portion of Sonic fans.

Unfortunately for you, we take all fans into account, and the actual official polls say Shadow is way more popular. At one point, you need to let your bias at the door and accept that your beloved characters aren't as popular as you think they are.

Tails, Knuckles and Dr. Eggman are the original characters in the series, in Tails and Eggman's case they've played pretty important parts in nearly every single Sonic game, they are easily the most iconic characters to come out of Sonic and they're much better to represent the franchise than some rando who's barely in any games, and barely anything well received at that. Shadow just doesn't make any sense considering what options we have. The classics trump everything else, this Shadow meme has gotta die.

Besides the fact it's not a meme(his game created memes, of course), the classics do not inherently trump everything else. That's nothing more than your personal opinion, which is fine to have. Everybody has a right to those. You do not get to however declare only your opinion counts in any way, shape, or form, including implying everybody else is wrong. We call that trolling.

Shadow is no random either. He was a very popular character that debuted in a very popular game, Sonic Adventure 2. He got his own game solely due to this popularity(and I do agree his game did not actually help people like him, outside of the memes it created. But the thing is, they're still like him because it's Shadow doing it, so that is key to remember. He made it work). Heroes didn't do well for him besides actually setting up the stage for his own game giving us the information of how Shadow survived space. Now, it's understandable that some didn't like what he became after Adventure 2. And that's alright. Everybody has their own opinion on it. I honestly loved him other than Heroes where he was impossible to take remotely seriously. Even though Shadow's game had a lot of cheese, it still had an amazing set of ending cutscenes(the final ending) and really did a lot for the character. It finally let him let go of the past and move on, where we got the even better version of him from 06. Unfortunately, they stopped using him outside of mostly cameos since then, which is sad, since they really had a great character. Note, he did appear in Sonic Chronicles too, but that's entirely non-canon.

Ironically, if I recall correctly, Shadow the Hedgehog gained mostly negative reception, despite being pretty good (it has its flaws, but it's still playable) for my tastes.

Anyway, I feel that Tails should come before Shadow, since he has been Sonic's buddy since Sonic the Hedgehog 2.

Yeah, and I can't blame people for the negativity. It took things way too far and dark. The gameplay was mostly fine, but the few glitches and Shadow going too fast to control, along with the Super Shadow segment being less that spectacular(but to be fair, 3D Super Mode has not been all that great overall among games. Albeit, I only got through Adventure 1, 2, and Shadow far enough for it, so I can't say how good Super Mode is in Heroes and other 3D games).

I do like the idea of Tails, but only if they don't make him a semi-clone at all. He has tons of games to go from, and not just his Plane Mech. However, if they do go that route, I really hope it has a skin based upon his version in Sonic X, since that was a really good design.

Shadow, I feel, already has something Tails doesn't have, immense popularity, which does help, and it didn't take long for him to separate himself severely from Sonic either. I know Tails only took maybe about 3 games at best(I don't know when Tails' Adventure came out, before or after Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles). Shadow took literally one game, since Sonic Battle came after Adventure 2 release-wise for games he's playable in. It was odd that Battle actually mentioned stuff from Heroes, but it was obvious they intended that. This is part of why I don't think seniority is a good argument for who to pick. It should really be based upon fan demand at this point, since that's generally what got Bayonetta in. Especially for a secondary Sonic character. Of course, it's safe to say Sakurai will use any particular criteria, but we definitely know he finds Shadow very important to the series, and took fan demand into account already, which is the main reason he's an AT.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, I'm aware of the joke. Made it myself. But for the sake of not confusing players who aren't the best at thinking/have little common sense, I'd say use Mecha Sonic's design, as a composite of their abilities. He'd make sense as a semi-clone of Sonic, due to being able to go Super.

The fact I think Metal Sonic in Classic Mode should use the proper Metal Sonic skin(ala Sonic Adventure 1) is entirely unrelated. >.>

I disagree with the Mecha Sonic idea. The two robots are different, and while Mecha is arguably the cooler one to me and should appear more often, it's Metal that is the series' mainstay and thus the one that should be in Smash between the two Badniks.

And since Sonic and Metal Sonic are not the same character, I also disagree with the idea of having Metal be used in Classic Mode as the Metal Box counterpart. Not only does it go against the proper context of the fight (against a playable fighter under a permanent item effect), but it goes against what Metal Sonic is supposed to be like. He's not supposed to be extremely heavy and hard to knock around, drop like a stone in the air, and be slightly slower than Sonic. He's either roughly his equal or in some cases, superior (at a cost) such as Sonic Adventure 2 where he jumps higher and moves faster, but is harder to control due to his momentum.

The skin for Sonic Adventure DX shows that him being an alt for Sonic (or even a promoted one like Doc/Pittoo/Luci) would be acceptable. But not him being a skin for the Metal Box effect.

I'm not going to necessarily defend him, but this feels dismissive and really unneeded. Just don't reply instead next time. You don't need to get in the last word, really. Don't worry about it. Clearly nobody agrees with his assertions, and if you have a way to prove him wrong, reply. Otherwise, you already won using your facts and logic. You never need to snipe at a user.

And yes, I agree he's wrong.

Noted. I probably wouldn't have even said anything if I wasn't being quoted.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Now that Nintendo Switch won't have a Virtual Console.
I bet that the Smash Bros for switch isn't a port from the previous one (3DS and Wii U)

Possibly, a new and fresh game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Now that Nintendo Switch won't have a Virtual Console.
I bet that the Smash Bros for switch isn't a port from the previous one (3DS and Wii U)

Possibly, a new and fresh game.

Uh.

It won't have it at launch.

Virtual Console is coming later.

 

[Deleted member]

Now that Nintendo Switch won't have a Virtual Console.
I bet that the Smash Bros for switch isn't a port from the previous one (3DS and Wii U)

Possibly, a new and fresh game.

Uh.

It won't have it at launch.

Virtual Console is coming later.

Not only what Swamp said, but Mario Kart 8 Deluxe exists.
An upgraded port with bonus content clearly doesn't require Virtual Console.

 

[Spurdo]

I was gonna bring up that famous poll (By Sega themselves) that had Shadow at number two but then you just go and call Shadow a meme.

First off, learn what words mean.

Second, what?

Like, if I had the choice to include any Sonic character I'd want, I'd go for Tails for a large variety of reasons but just dismissing Shadow as a meme makes your statement stupidly biased.

You seem incredibly dismissive of anything that isn't a classic title. That's not a good reason to just dismiss stuff. The modern games did happen and they do have their fans. A lot of them. Shadow keeps reappearing because he's incredibly popular. I mean they brought him back from his death because he was so popular.

Calling Shadow a meme. Honestly.

You do realize I'm not using the word meme in the 'internet meme' sense, right? That's not the real definition of the word, no need to get hostile about it friend.

I would say I have a pretty good reason to be dismissive of anything that isn't one of the classics. It's just that they're indisputably the best, the most popular, well received and recognizable things in the entire franchise, much more say than Sonic Adventure. The classics are what Sonic is about, and Shadow in no way represents them.

Besides the fact it's not a meme(his game created memes, of course), the classics do not inherently trump everything else. That's nothing more than your personal opinion, which is fine to have. Everybody has a right to those. You do not get to however declare only your opinion counts in any way, shape, or form, including implying everybody else is wrong. We call that trolling.

Shadow is no random either. He was a very popular character that debuted in a very popular game, Sonic Adventure 2. He got his own game solely due to this popularity(and I do agree his game did not actually help people like him, outside of the memes it created. But the thing is, they're still like him because it's Shadow doing it, so that is key to remember. He made it work). Heroes didn't do well for him besides actually setting up the stage for his own game giving us the information of how Shadow survived space. Now, it's understandable that some didn't like what he became after Adventure 2. And that's alright. Everybody has their own opinion on it. I honestly loved him other than Heroes where he was impossible to take remotely seriously. Even though Shadow's game had a lot of cheese, it still had an amazing set of ending cutscenes(the final ending) and really did a lot for the character. It finally let him let go of the past and move on, where we got the even better version of him from 06. Unfortunately, they stopped using him outside of mostly cameos since then, which is sad, since they really had a great character. Note, he did appear in Sonic Chronicles too, but that's entirely non-canon.

What?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You do realize I'm not using the word meme in the 'internet meme' sense, right? That's not the real definition of the word, no need to get hostile about it friend.

Then you you still need to learn what words mean.

Because its still used wrong.

I would say I have a pretty good reason to be dismissive of anything that isn't one of the classics. It's just that they're indisputably the best, the most popular, well received and recognizable things in the entire franchise, much more say than Sonic Adventure. The classics are what Sonic is about, and Shadow in no way represents them.

Methinks you're putting the classic on a bit of a pedestal there.

Even if that was true, that doesn't magically make the modern games unpopular. Because they are still very popular.

Sonic didn't just stop getting fans after Sonic and Knuckles.