Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Kids play FNAF either way, so it's not like something like Springtrap would be too "horror show" for them to see. :V

I'm quite surprised that you mentioned that, since I did see some videos that showed that game, and it really gave me the creeps. Personally, I wouldn't endorse that game to children, as it's basically nightmare fuel.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm quite surprised that you mentioned that, since I did see some videos that showed that game, and it really gave me the creeps. Personally, I wouldn't endorse that game to children, as it's basically nightmare fuel.

It was not Scott's intent for children to play it, yet children do, and they like it.

Why, I don't know. -shrug-

 

[Chandeelure]

I see more children than adults playing that game.
It's like Minecraft or Slenderman.

 

[UserKev]

I wish FNAF never came into existence.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

I'd take Scrooge McDuck over any third party nitwit any day

I wouldn't say yes to Scrooge McDuck for Smash because insert "Not a video game character by origin" statement here. I would consider Scrooge McDuck for a Disney's All-star gathering, however.

Kids play FNAF either way, so it's not like something like Springtrap would be too "horror show" for them to see. :V

As for FNAF, none of the games have been on Nintendo platforms. So, I wouldn't consider anything from FNAF until an official release on Nintendo platforms.

Smash in general needs to step up the alt costume game. The fact that simple **** like Shiny Pokemon are missing is a joke. Where's Mr. L for Luigi? What about the Cosplay Pikachus? Why no boxing glove DK? Masked Dedede?? So many missed opportunities..

I am all for more true alt costumes. I'd take those with crossover costumes that keep within Smash's limits and would fit the character getting the outfit.

There are some great costume opportunities with home series and crossover true alts.

For crossover alts I'd like to see:

Zero Suit Samus having the outfit of Metal Gear Solid 3's The Boss. I would agree to this if Solid Snake returned.
Link Sonic from the Zelda DLC on the Wii U version of Sonic Lost World.
FE's Robin looking like a classic Final Fantasy Black Mage.
Maybe Greninja could get a Sheikah inspired outfit. Also, I would allow the "Shiny" variant to get that outfit, too.

 

[Deleted member]

As for FNAF, none of the games have been on Nintendo platforms. So, I wouldn't consider anything from FNAF until an official release on Nintendo platforms.

Meh, I only brought it up as a direct response to the mentioning of an Undertale character anyway. :V

 

[PsychoJosh]

Oh yeah, put a FNAF character in. Nevermind the fact that they don`t exist on a Nintendo system, or that they`re from an M-rated horror game, they have SO much moveset potential, like... uh...

...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why do people think the Nintendo system thing is still a relevant rule?

 

[PsychoJosh]

Why do people think the Nintendo system thing is still a relevant rule?

Because all of the characters so far have appeared on Nintendo systems.

The real question is why people think it ISN'T a relevant rule, when so far every character has followed it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Because all of the characters so far have appeared on Nintendo systems.

The real question is why people think it ISN'T a relevant rule, when so far every character has followed it.

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

Just read this.

 

[PsychoJosh]

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

Just read this.

Yeah, yeah, interviews that are up to interpretation are all well and good.

But until he actually breaks the rule in the game, I don't see how it isn't a relevant and ironclad rule.

 

[Kirbeh]

Because all of the characters so far have appeared on Nintendo systems.

The real question is why people think it ISN'T a relevant rule, when so far every character has followed it.

I'd imagine it's because either
A) Many people still mistakenly assume that never appeared on a Nintendo console. I've known/seen a few that thought the same for as well.

B) Those that are aware don't treat the spin-offs appears in as significant enough roles, and still associate him with the PlayStation brand despite being third party.

C) While we know a lot of what Sakurai takes into consideration he's rarely divulged any hard line rules.

D) They just don't care either way and even if it was a known rule, they'd ignore it because they want to support "x" character as we see sometimes with non-game characters.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

The day a character that has never appeared on any Nintendo hardware appears in Smash is the day I give up. Hell, I could even swallow Cloud's inclusion because at least there's Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories!

Sakurai would never undermind the Nintendo crossover like that. Even if the connections get flimsier and flimsier, there will ALWAYS be a connection to Nintendo somehow.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, yeah, interviews that are up to interpretation are all well and good.

But until he actually breaks the rule in the game, I don't see how it isn't a relevant and ironclad rule.

Because the one who actually chooses the characters in each game said it?

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah, put a FNAF character in. Nevermind the fact that they don`t exist on a Nintendo system, or that they`re from an M-rated horror game, they have SO much moveset potential, like... uh...

...

Literally the only thing you said that matters/has any truth is that they have no Nintendo presence.

But then again, no one was really arguing in favor of one showing up anyway in the first place.
All I did was jokingly reply to someone talking about Sans from Undertale as an indie fighter for Smash and say that Springtrap should be added first, with the point being that neither really had a shot.

Though why I brought up Springtrap and not someone like Freddy? Because not only is he one of the most significant figures in the entire franchise, there's a lot of potential to work with for him specifically, utilizing the Phantoms to disorient opponents and making them easier for him to kill just like in FNAF3.

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

It's kind of a courtesy, but not something necessary.

Sakurai did say however that he probably would've had misgivings about Cloud had he not made any sort of Nintendo appearance whatsoever.

 

[Schnee117]

M-rated horror game,

The FNAF games are rated 12+ on mobile by Pegi. That's not equal to an M rating.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Because the one who actually chooses the characters in each game said it?

As I said, it's up to interpretation. What he said was pretty vague, and it could also be a misquote or a mistranslation since we don't know what he literally said in the original Japanese. However, from what I have seen, he is holding fast to this rule.

 

[Kirbeh]

The FNAF games are rated 12+ on mobile by Pegi. That's not equal to an M rating.

That's actually pretty interesting. It just goes to show how differently each region views things when it comes to whats deemed acceptable for their ratings, localization and censorship, etc.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

As I said, it's up to interpretation. What he said was pretty vague, and it could also be a misquote or a mistranslation since we don't know what he literally said in the original Japanese. However, from what I have seen, he is holding fast to this rule.

The way I see it, it's a made up rule by the fans.

Aside from Bayonetta, who got in because ballot, every single third-party in Smash is an iconic gaming character.

Sonic is well-known because of SEGA's rivalry with Nintendo during the 90s and is still going strong as one of the most well-known franchises
Snake is the mascot of both slealth video games and cinematic games (MGS games have so many cutscenes that they may as well be movies )
Mega Man... well, he's kind of a has-been, admitedly, but he was still a huge deal in the 80s to the point of still being remembered today.
Pac-Man is one of the games that dominated the arcades in the 80s. Heck, if you have an arcade in your town, chances are there's a Pac-Man game in it today.
Ryu is the mascot of fighting games
Cloud is one of the most recognizable JRPG characters and a mascot of the genre

Again, this could all be concidence, but in my mind, Sakurai doesn't really have any rules; he just thinks whoever he wants to pick and adds them if it's possible.

 

[PsychoJosh]

The way I see it, it's a made up rule by the fans.

Aside from Bayonetta, who got in because ballot, every single third-party in Smash is an iconic gaming character.

Sonic is well-known because of SEGA's rivalry with Nintendo during the 90s and is still going strong as one of the most well-known franchises
Snake is the mascot of both slealth video games and cinematic games (MGS games have so many cutscenes that they may as well be movies )
Mega Man... well, he's kind of a has-been, admitedly, but he was still a huge deal in the 80s to the point of still being remembered today.
Pac-Man is one of the games that dominated the arcades in the 80s. Heck, if you have an arcade in your town, chances are there's a Pac-Man game in it today.
Ryu is the mascot of fighting games
Cloud is one of the most recognizable JRPG characters and a mascot of the genre

And what do they all have in common?

ALL of them have been on Nintendo systems. In fact, some of them made their mark on Nintendo systems - Megaman and Ryu were among Nintendo's best-sellers, and Street Fighter wouldn't be as popular as it is today without them.

So, not seeing any violations or examples of how this is a "made up rule".

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And what do they all have in common?

ALL of them have been on Nintendo systems. In fact, some of them made their mark on Nintendo systems - Megaman and Ryu were among Nintendo's best-sellers, and Street Fighter wouldn't be as popular as it is today without them.

So, not seeing any violations or examples of how this is a "made up rule".

Cloud's has only been on spin-offs. Okay, it still technically counts, but his debut game is on a whole other level.

Cloud didn't become a huge icon because of Theathrythm on the 3DS or whatever else he appeared on in other Nintendo consoles. He became huge from Final Fantasy VII, a game that only only never showed up on a Nintendo platform, but whose development caused Square Enix to never make an official FF game on a Nintendo console ever again.

Again, it's technically not breaking the rule, but when the Nintendo appearances are so obscure that a bunch of people didn't even realize existed, I'd say it's the closest thing to an exception we have so far.

 

[PsychoJosh]

"Close to" an exception is not an exception. It either is or isn't.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's actually pretty interesting. It just goes to show how differently each region views things when it comes to whats deemed acceptable for their ratings, localization and censorship, etc.

I did see a new video that was uploaded by WatchMojo.com, which mentions the top 10 countries that censor or have censored certain kinds of video games. What may be acceptable in the US may not be tolerated at other countries after all.

 

[Deleted member]

The way I see it, it's a made up rule by the fans.

Dude.

Sakurai did say however that he probably would've had misgivings about Cloud had he not made any sort of Nintendo appearance whatsoever.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

"Close to" an exception is not an exception. It either is or isn't.

Fair enough, but I still don't think it's really a "rule"

Dude.

See? He said "misgivings"

He never said he would've outright dumped him, just doubted the decision of adding him.

Point taken, that could've been enough to forget the idea of adding Cloud for him, but it's still not a "OH, HE NEVER APPEARED ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE, SO THERE'S NO WAY I'LL EVER EVEN THINK OF PUTTING HIM IN THE GAME!" kind of thing.

 

[Opossum]

Fair enough, but I still don't think it's really a "rule"


See? He said "misgivings"

He never said he would've outright dumped him, just doubted the decision of adding him.

Point taken, that could've been enough to forget the idea of adding Cloud for him, but it's still not a "OH, HE NEVER APPEARED ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE, SO THERE'S NO WAY I'LL EVER EVEN THINK OF PUTTING HIM IN THE GAME!" kind of thing.

You're assuming quite a lot. It just as easily, if not more easily, be that Sakurai went:

"Lots of people want Cloud. He's been on a Nintendo console, so okay."

As opposed to

"Lots of people want Gordon Freeman. He's never been on a Nintendo console though, so no dice, man."

If anything the fact that he would have had misgivings is proof enough that Cloud wouldn't have gotten in without a Nintendo connection. I don't think Sakurai would put a character on the roster only to possibly REGRET putting it on the roster.

 

[Schnee117]

That's actually pretty interesting. It just goes to show how differently each region views things when it comes to whats deemed acceptable for their ratings, localization and censorship, etc.

From looking around a bit more they're rated T by the ESRB which is 13+.

Really though, age ratings for home franchises don't matter for Smash. We've had Snake and Bayonetta playable in spite of being from M rated games. It's about what's vital to the character and what they can get away with.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You're assuming quite a lot. It just as easily, if not more easily, be that Sakurai went:

"Lots of people want Cloud. He's been on a Nintendo console, so okay."

As opposed to

"Lots of people want Gordon Freeman. He's never been on a Nintendo console though, so no dice, man."

If anything the fact that he would have had misgivings is proof enough that Cloud wouldn't have gotten in without a Nintendo connection. I don't think Sakurai would put a character on the roster only to possibly REGRET putting it on the roster.

Fair enough.

 

[Kirbeh]

I did see a new video that was uploaded by WatchMojo.com, which mentions the top 10 countries that censor or have censored certain kinds of video games. What may be acceptable in the US may not be tolerated at other countries after all.

What's acceptable in the US, Japan, and the PAL region are all different. Even within the PAL region there isn't really a proper consensus with Germany and Australia usually being especially strict about certain things.

The FNAF situation surprised me in particular because I figured it'd be the M equivalent across the board due to it's nature as a horror game. Thinking about now though, the usual targets are violent content and sexual content, neither of which can really be found in FNAF so I guess it makes some sense.

The lore behind FNAF is not really meant for children of course, but aside from jump scares and creepy looking characters the content of the games themselves more or less passes for a lower rating I suppose.

From looking around a bit more they're rated T by the ESRB which is 13+.

Really though, age ratings for home franchises don't matter for Smash. We've had Snake and Bayonetta playable in spite of being from M rated games. It's about what's vital to the character and what they can get away with.

Oh no, my point wasn't at all meant to say that the ratings matter for Smash, I just thought it was interesting.

I'll gladly take more characters from M rated games so long as they feel like they fit in well among the rest of the cast. I even voted for during the ballot because she felt right at home as a Nintendo character to me.

 

[Opossum]

What's acceptable in the US, Japan, and the PAL region are all different. Even within the PAL region there isn't really a proper consensus with Germany and Australia usually being especially strict about certain things.

The FNAF situation surprised me in particular because I figured it'd be the M equivalent across the board due to it's nature as a horror game. Thinking about now though, the usual targets are violent content and sexual content, neither of which can really be found in FNAF so I guess it makes some sense.

The lore behind FNAF is not really meant for children of course, but aside from jump scares and creepy looking characters the content of the games themselves more or less passes for a lower rating I suppose.

Honestly T is a good fit I think. None of the gore is shown, only implied/part of the lore. Like, you likely wouldn't be able to know Springtrap has a rotting corpse inside it by looking at it.

To bring this back to Smash though and part of a similar discussion, what third party character do you think is the most surprising when it comes to them being Smash-eligible?

In my opinion, Chell. She's technically eligible due to the Wii U port of Lego Dimensions.

 

[Kirbeh]

Honestly T is a good fit I think. None of the gore is shown, only implied/part of the lore. Like, you likely wouldn't be able to know Springtrap has a rotting corpse inside it by looking at it.

To bring this back to Smash though and part of a similar discussion, what third party character do you think is the most surprising when it comes to them being Smash-eligible?

In my opinion, Chell. She's technically eligible due to the Wii U port of Lego Dimensions.

Chell as in Portal? I'm not at all familiar with who appears in the Lego games. If that's the case, I'm just as surprised Portal content is in a Lego game.

As for the actual question, I'm not sure there's any character I currently find surprising. I'd probably have to go with Chell as well since you just now surprised me with the fact she appeared in Lego Dimensions which grants her eligibility by technicality.

I guess for a character to surprise me I'd need to be ignorant to the fact they had a Nintendo appearance, like you just did with Chell.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Honestly T is a good fit I think. None of the gore is shown, only implied/part of the lore. Like, you likely wouldn't be able to know Springtrap has a rotting corpse inside it by looking at it.

To bring this back to Smash though and part of a similar discussion, what third party character do you think is the most surprising when it comes to them being Smash-eligible?

In my opinion, Chell. She's technically eligible due to the Wii U port of Lego Dimensions.

Crash Bandicoot has some GBA Games IIRC. As does Spyro. And probably like a ****ton of other things because EVERYTHING made it to the GBA at one point..

(For the record, I don't think paltry spinoffs is enough to justify a character's inclusion, but that's against the spirit of the question being asked)

 

[Opossum]

Chell as in Portal? I'm not at all familiar with who appears in the Lego games. If that's the case, I'm just as surprised Portal content is in a Lego game.

Yep! And apparently the Portal level they made for it is actually pretty damn solid, which is neat. Added with the fact that Chell can team up with Batman, Sonic, Gandalf, Scooby-Doo, Wyldstyle, and the A-Team and it's a wild ride.


Another surprisingly eligible character is Ezio, thanks to that one DS Assassins Creed game.

 

[Schnee117]

Honestly T is a good fit I think. None of the gore is shown, only implied/part of the lore. Like, you likely wouldn't be able to know Springtrap has a rotting corpse inside it by looking at it.

To bring this back to Smash though and part of a similar discussion, what third party character do you think is the most surprising when it comes to them being Smash-eligible?

In my opinion, Chell. She's technically eligible due to the Wii U port of Lego Dimensions.

Dante (and Vergil), a bunch of Darkstalkers (including Morrigan though she has TvC as well), Yuri Lowell, KOS-MOS and a bunch of God Eaters. All because they're in the PXZ games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dante (and Vergil), a bunch of Darkstalkers (including Morrigan), Yuri Lowell, KOS-MOS and a bunch of God Eaters. All because they're in the PXZ games.

This makes me want to see Segata Sanshiro in a Smash game.

 

[Kirbeh]

Yep! And apparently the Portal level they made for it is actually pretty damn solid, which is neat. Added with the fact that Chell can team up with Batman, Sonic, Gandalf, Scooby-Doo, Wyldstyle, and the A-Team and it's a wild ride.


Another surprisingly eligible character is Ezio, thanks to that one DS Assassins Creed game.

I don't actually find him surprising on account that I already knew of said DS AC game.

I suppose going off what I said earlier, eligibility is only really surprising when you first learn of it. What would surprise me is if a character like Ezio or Chell, etc. actually got in. Not because I don't see them as ineligible or bad choices, but because there are others I expect more or something along those lines. Hopefully that made sense.

Like with Ezio, I'd expect Sakurai to pick Rayman first if we got someone from Ubisoft.

And if we didn't already have Mega Man and Ryu, then I'd expect to see them before there was any chance of moving on to a Darkstalkers character, etc. Plus there are numerous Capcom series (Ace Attorney, Monster Hunter, etc.) I think they'd likely go to before Darkstalkers as well. I miss Darkstalkers. I'd totally be down for Morrigan in Smash too but that'll never happen...

 

[Arcadenik]

Scrooge McDuck for a Disney's All-star gathering,

Oh yes! I would love to see a Mickey & Friends racing game like Mickey's Speedway USA (N64) but with more characters like Darkwing Duck, Launchpad McQuack, Scrooge McDuck, and so on... and the game is just as good as Mario Kart 8.

The race courses would be based on Silly Symphonies, DuckTales, Fantasia, The Three Caballeros, Saludos Amigos, Make Mine Music, Fun and Fancy Free, Melody Time, The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, House of Mouse, and more.

A race course based on The Band Concert would be amazing... imagine racing inside a tornado and you're driving on the flying debris.

 

[Deleted member]

To bring this back to Smash though and part of a similar discussion, what third party character do you think is the most surprising when it comes to them being Smash-eligible?

Prior to the Mii costume reveal at least, Akira from Virtua Fighter, a series that's only had a Virtual Console release of one of its main games, an obscure RPG spin-off, and some crossover appearances on Nintendo.

Dante (and Vergil), a bunch of Darkstalkers (including Morrigan though she has TvC as well), Yuri Lowell, KOS-MOS and a bunch of God Eaters. All because they're in the PXZ games.

KOS-MOS also had a DS remake of the first two Xenosaga games, though it's very obscure and Japan-only.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Klonoa.

Which will never happen since the franchise isn't a big seller no matter how hard Namco Bandai tries.

But he fits like a glove for Smash.

 

[Kirbeh]

Klonoa.

Which will never happen since the franchise isn't a big seller no matter how hard Namco Bandai tries.

But he fits like a glove for Smash.

Speaking of gloves, how about Glover?