The Nintendo "Off My Chest" thread (BE CIVIL)

[chocolatejr9]

So what we're saying is, Donkey Kong got dealt a rough hand as early as the third game? Dang...

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

So what we're saying is, Donkey Kong got dealt a rough hand as early as the third game? Dang...

We never discussed the one with Stanley, but yeah I'd argue that one counts too.

 

[Dinoman96]

I just think this is the result of Gregg Mayles clearly not being someone who ever wanted to be stuck in one genre for too long. Like many people know him mainly as "the Banjo and maybe DKC1/2 guy" but the reality is that he's been involved with many different genres and IPs before and after those: he designed the NES and Arcade Battletoads games and also Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Viva Pinata, and in more recent times, Sea of Thieves. He's also been brought on to salvage Everwild as its new creative director.

His tenure on Banjo and DK both have a similar trajectory, when you think about it: worked on the first game, worked on its direct follow up and then decided it was time to move on to greener pastures with a new IP, after DKC2 it was Dream (later Banjo-Kazooie), and after Tooie it was...Grabbed by the Ghoulies, originally planned for the GCN (and not a proper third Banjo platformer, like so many believed).

To me, Nuts & Bolts always felt like a game initially made out of obligation. Like after Ghoulies bombed on Xbox it was clear him and the Banjo team crawled back to the latter and tried to come up new ideas for a new Banjo platformer, like an enhanced remake of the first or even competing against an computer controlled Grunty or something along those lines, but nothing really stuck until they finally came up with the whole vehicle mechanic. This will give you the overall run down on that game's development if you don't know the whole story by now.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

There's something subtly sad about Nuts & Bolts in that Mayles and company seemed to perceive a staleness to the series which they earnestly tried to address with innovative ideas in the aforementioned game only to not have it really land because the audience most willing to buy a Banjo Kazooie game wasn't interested in a title that wasn't Threeie. In that sense, it's almost ironic that Nintendo didn't buy Rare because after 2001 the mentality of trying out new and bold experiments (fan demand be damned) was something they both had in common.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I just think this is the result of Gregg Mayles clearly not being someone who ever wanted to be stuck in one genre for too long. Like many people know him mainly as "the Banjo and maybe DKC1/2 guy" but the reality is that he's been involved with many different genres and IPs before and after those: he designed the NES and Arcade Battletoads games and also Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Viva Pinata, and in more recent times, Sea of Thieves. He's also been brought on to salvage Everwild as its new creative director.

His tenure on Banjo and DK both have a similar trajectory, when you think about it: worked on the first game, worked on its direct follow up and then decided it was time to move on to greener pastures with a new IP, after DKC2 it was Dream (later Banjo-Kazooie), and after Tooie it was...Grabbed by the Ghoulies, originally planned for the GCN (and not a proper third Banjo platformer, like so many believed).

View attachment 397105

To me, Nuts & Bolts always felt like a game initially made out of obligation to me. Like after Ghoulies bombed on Xbox it was clear him and the Banjo team crawled back to the latter and tried to come up new ideas for a new Banjo platformer, like an enhanced remake of the first or even competing against an computer controlled Grunty or something along those lines, but nothing really stuck until they finally came up with the whole vehicle mechanic. This will give you the overall run down on that game's development if you don't know the whole story by now.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

I have said a lot and still have a lot to say about Rare fandom and its relationships with both modern Nintendo fandom and Rare itself, but one thing that always sticks out to me is just how much Rare fandom is built on assumptions and speculaiton, both in a meta sense and in terms of the games themselves. Every time I research anything even adjacent to Rare, I find evidence that debunks some famous long-standing myth without even trying, that in any other fandom would've just become meme and fanfiction fodder like Marty the Thwomp or Pikablu and ended there - the amount of blatantly untrue myths about Rare and its games is utterly staggering - from miniscule things like "Rareware" having been the company name or as elaborate as deep multi-game character arcs for Donkey Kong characters - even a lot of the true stuff comes from relatively dubious and likely forgotten sources like foreign marketing materials or game manuals - and they all seem to originate from within the fandom, not from outside. Bubsy has a lot of misconceptions, but most of them come from outside the fandom and are intended to disparage him, (Bubsy being intended as a cool Sonic-type character, Rob Paulson regretting voicing him) while a lot of Rare myths seem to have a more positive slant, and born from a belief that the devs think the way fans do, and Big Bad Bill is getting in the way, that kinda places a Santa element onto them where it's impossible to debunk them without being the heel, even if it's the right thing to do or when those myths are being used maliciously (There's a reason I'll sometimes call Banjo "the mascot of console wars"). I guess it makes sense since these games primarily came out in the late 90s, when internet fandom existed, but we didn't exactly have clear terms like "fan theory" or "headcanon" to distinguish and it was (speaking from experience in the 2000s) very easy to stumble across fan ideas and mistake them for being official.

 

[fogbadge]

There's something subtly sad about Nuts & Bolts in that Mayles and company seemed to perceive a staleness to the series which they earnestly tried to address with innovative ideas in the aforementioned game only to not have it really land because the audience most willing to buy a Banjo Kazooie game wasn't interested in a title that wasn't Threeie. In that sense, it's almost ironic that Nintendo didn't buy Rare because after 2001 the mentality of trying out new and bold experiments (fan demand be damned) was something they both had in common.

iirc people made fun of rare for always making 3D platformers and that’s was one of the factors in them wanting to do something different with the games. I think that also played a factor in the reinventing conker as an adult game. although I don’t recall the sources on this so you’ll forgive me if I’m wrong

I do know that many people said that nuts and bolts was a solid game and speculated that had it been an original IP it would have been better received.

 

[Perkilator]

Since the Super Mario franchise’s 40th anniversary is next year, I hope they go all out with it. Especially since the Switch 2 is likely going to launch next year as well.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The one thing that still tends to baffle me is why the Kremling Krew is being treated as retired characters by Nintendo. I mean, Nintendo has the full rights to King K. Rool and his followers, and yet when you look at Mario Strikers Battle League, it got rid of the Kritter goalkeepers, and replaced them with Boom Booms.

It's almost like Nintendo doesn't want anything to do with the Kremling Krew anymore if their only recent appearances were in the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The one thing that still tends to baffle me is why the Kremling Krew is being treated as retired characters by Nintendo. I mean, Nintendo has the full rights to King K. Rool and his followers, and yet when you look at Mario Strikers Battle League, it got rid of the Kritter goalkeepers, and replaced them with Boom Booms.

It's almost like Nintendo doesn't want anything to do with the Kremling Krew anymore if their only recent appearances were in the Super Smash Bros. series.

I haven't really got a horse in the "where's the Kremlings?" race anymore, I'd rather they just be on-and-off depending on a game's needs, but Boom Boom is a character who was dormant for the entire rest of the Strikers series, and his distinctive trait is his giant hands, not unlike the giant gloves goalies have to wear, he was gonna replace the Kritters no matter what.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

On another subject that I'd like to point out, I didn't exactly like the way that Nintendo set up the character stat spreads in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. They were less consistent (and messier) when compared to how Mario Kart 8 handled the stat spreads. But the biggest issue involves the characters whom are categorized as being heavyweights.

For starters, Wiggler has a long body, but it's treated as a medium body frame character, and has the exact same stats as Waluigi, Donkey Kong, and Roy (all of whom are large body frame characters). That literally gives it an unfair advantage, just like with how Metal Mario was handled in Mario Kart 7. To fix that imbalance, either make Wiggler large-sized, or have it use Mario's stat spread.

A similar issue also exists with Petey Piranha, whom for some reason, has Metal Mario's stats, despite being large-sized. Sure, Petey's invincibility stat is better, but it's still baffling that he wasn't given the same stats as Bowser.

And lastly, one of the most notable issues that I have is the lack of a large-sized middleweight group. Rosalina, Waluigi, and Pauline are all large-sized, but their thin bodies should mean that they're lesser in weight than the bulkier large characters. And in terms of their stat spreads, they would share the same acceleration, weight, and traction as Mario, but handling would be sacrificed in favor of better speed, due to their larger body frame size. It would basically be similar to how in Mario Kart 8, Metal Mario and Pink Gold Peach had the same acceleration, weight, and traction as Bowser, Wario, Morton, and Dry Bowser, but they sacrificed speed for better handling, due to their smaller body frame size.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think the situation regarding the Kremlings represents what a pretty awkward and specific case the DKC series kinda is. As in, unlike other main Nintendo IPs like Mario, Zelda, Yoshi, etc, its classic, defining games were not created in-house by Nintendo's internal crown jewel developers like EAD, but rather a third party company that has since cut all ties with Nintendo and the DK brand (not counting some handheld remakes).

In hindsight, DKC Returns very much feels like Miyamoto/Nintendo/Retro/whoever trying to take the basic concept of Donkey Kong Country and "make it their own", to distinguish themselves from the Rare games. Former Retro Studios dev Kynan Pearson actually admitted to that on an old Kiwi Talkz, that the logic in creating new enemies instead of bringing back the Kremlings for Returns was to differentiate the game from the older games.

Of course, it seems a bit confusing and contradictory because they still do use some returning elements from Rare's games nonetheless like Diddy, Rambi, Cranky, Dixie, etc but well, I imagine they probably think that they need some old material to connect the two eras, to not pull a total Jungle Beat. Think about how The Lion King remake had a mostly new voice cast, but also brought back James Earl Jones (RIP) to reprise his role as Mufusa, iirc this was because Jon Favreau wanted something to connect the old and the new.

 

[Perkilator]

I’ve had trouble putting into words why I don’t want a Nintendo Kart, but I think I’ve finally found a succinct way to put it: the crossover aspect of Smash isn’t something you can just replicate. Hence, I think it would be more worth the effort to create a Mario Kart game that properly celebrates the history of Mario and the adjacent franchises like Luigi’s Mansion and Donkey Kong.

Expanding on this, the idea of Nintendo Kart, to me, analogous to movies like The Emoji Movie, Ready Player One, Ralph Breaks the Internet, and Space Jam 2: pieces of media that care more about showing off things they have the rights to then they do about providing an engaging experience.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To add to the problem with the idea of a Nintendo Kart game is having to limit yourself to only the characters whom you have the full rights to. That pretty much rules out all the characters from the franchises that were developed by Nintendo's 2nd party developers (such as Kirby, Pokemon, EarthBound, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade).

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Expanding on this, the idea of Nintendo Kart, to me, analogous to movies like The Emoji Movie, Ready Player One, Ralph Breaks the Internet, and Space Jam 2: pieces of media that care more about showing off things they have the rights to then they do about providing an engaging experience.

I agree with this point, but that is also literally all Smash is. Smash isn't inately better than a theoretical Nintendo Kart or vice versa, I would say Nintendo Kart is mostly just a bad idea because it's thematically incoherent for some of these characters to be in a kart racer, as opposed to just being juxtaposed into comical situations while fighting, and clearly intended for die-hard Nintendo fans at expense of the regular family audience. Nintendo is not Disney, it's never had a house style or winning formula, and the balance between IP awareness in mainstream for Nintendo's major IPs is wildly lopsided, it's a weird crossover idea - even if maybe not as much so as "Warner Bros. crossover" - that Smash got away with because it was originally supposed to be somewhat niche and built its reputation relatively slowly.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm aware that this is extraordinarily petty, but I think my biggest problem with Nintendo Kart would be that it would feel like an admission by the developers that there's nothing else they can do character/track/item wise with what they have, which would be immensely frustrating. Even just looking at Mario adjacent series like Yoshi/DK/Wario, there's so much untapped potential there for future games, potential that could be lost if they just go all in on throwing every first party IP in. That's not even getting into what stuff like the Mario RPG's, Luigi's Mansion, or even newer stuff like Peach's recent release could offer.

We don't really need Samus and Zebes stages popping up in Mario Kart when something from Odyssey, Paper Mario, Wario Land, or Diddy's Kong Quest could be just as interesting to incorporate in the franchise.

 

[Laniv]

We don't really need Samus and Zebes stages popping up in Mario Kart when something from Odyssey, Paper Mario, Wario Land, or Diddy's Kong Quest could be just as interesting to incorporate in the franchise.

I'm gonna springboard off this and say that no Mario spinoff has so much as touched Odyssey beyond Pauline and New Donk City continues to puzzle me and others. Not even Cappy in Mario Party?

 

[fogbadge]

I'm gonna springboard off this and say that no Mario spinoff has so much as touched Odyssey beyond Pauline and New Donk City continues to puzzle me and others. Not even Cappy in Mario Party?

captain toad had odyssey levels in the switch and 3ds versions

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm aware that this is extraordinarily petty, but I think my biggest problem with Nintendo Kart would be that it would feel like an admission by the developers that there's nothing else they can do character/track/item wise with what they have, which would be immensely frustrating. Even just looking at Mario adjacent series like Yoshi/DK/Wario, there's so much untapped potential there for future games, potential that could be lost if they just go all in on throwing every first party IP in. That's not even getting into what stuff like the Mario RPG's, Luigi's Mansion, or even newer stuff like Peach's recent release could offer.

We don't really need Samus and Zebes stages popping up in Mario Kart when something from Odyssey, Paper Mario, Wario Land, or Diddy's Kong Quest could be just as interesting to incorporate in the franchise.

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if there's some weird rights issues that are stopping it from happening. Or is somebody gonna have to buy a whole stake in the company just to ask about that at the next shareholders meeting, like that one guy who asked about a new F-Zero?

 

[AlRex]

I don’t want a Nintendo Kart (though I am not as vehemently opposed to it as others)…

…but a Nintendo Twisted Metal/Cel Damage, however…

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I kind of miss Nintendo doing odd crossovers between characters/subseries that weren't the sports games, Mario Kart, or Smash. Back in the day you'd get stuff like Toad and Wario as the main focus of Wario's Woods or Dr Mario and the Wario Land cast with Dr Mario 64. Granted these were puzzle games where you weren't exactly mixing gameplay or doing heavy story emphasis, but it was a novelty. Even something like Wario Blast oriented around him and Bomberman feels like something you really wouldn't see much of these days.

 

[Quillion]

Looking back on all the hubbub about layoffs and economic trouble early this year, does anyone else think that videos like these were just a massive cope?

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

As someone who was admittedly caught up in the news of the layoffs, the focus on this stuff felt like an excuse for Nintendo fans to ignore their stinginess, which is just the complete opposite problem of everything else that went on.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Semi-related to that point, there's a tendency for both Nintendo supporters and critics to assume an almost wholesome, mom and pop business element to them; a quality which makes them the last real toy maker in gaming to some or a behind the times throwback to others. However, this seems a bit at odds with both with their focused efficiency and very prudent financial strategy, the latter of which borders on outright detached in outlook when it comes to customers or even the broader gaming market.

Very selective choices in discounting games, a positively restrained numbers of employees, even the tendency to outright lure high level workers from other companies rather than buying studios? It paints the picture of a very specific money plan which does not involve excess spending at levels that don't aren't research and development. That's not to say that certain decisions in this regard aren't smart (not buying Rare and letting Alpha Dream go bankrupt in favor of hiring the better developers there after probably were the right moves financially) just that it's likely not a company that limited by sentimentality or a notion of keeping the gaming hobby a certain way.

Nintendo has found a path/method that works for them and it's good for the general creativity of the industry that they're here, but you don't get to be a 130-year-old plus company in a highly competitive country without being ruthlessly pragmatic, even if that's in long term thinking.

 

[Quillion]

Nintendo has found a path/method that works for them and it's good for the general creativity of the industry that they're here, but you don't get to be a 130-year-old plus company in a highly competitive country without being ruthlessly pragmatic, even if that's in long term thinking.

I think the bigger problem is that people treat pragmatism and "goodwill" as mutually exclusive black-and-white.

That's like saying self-defense should be illegal because you'll hurt people, or you should never own property ever because everyone else doesn't have what you have.

Maybe it's because I'm actually taking business classes right now (for my third "run" through college...), or it's general fatigue with cynicism, but too many people are so self-righteous about how pragmatism can never be good.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Re: Nintendo Kart
I think it could work if it goes in a much different way to handle the crossover aspect than Smash does.
Instead of trying to fit in as many IPs as possible, I think "Mario Kart Crossroads" as I'm calling it should instead focus on a handful of properties and squeeze as much content from each as they see fit.
Have the Mario regulars in there. Put in the whole Kong family along with King K. Rool. Have some of the other popular AC characters join Isabelle. Make all the Splatoon idols playable. Put in Olimar, Louie, Alph and Brittany. Let Zelda accompany Link. Add the Star Fox team. And then a couple of extras like Captain Falcon and the player character from Balloon Fight. The Mario stuff would still have the lion's share here, and there's around 6 or so other IPs here that don't clash too much with the Mario Kart game feel. It's about depth over breadth.
Perhaps there could be a couple of packs for non-EPD stuff like Kirby and WarioWare, but that would be it.
I'm basically going for the BBTAG approach, where that game was a crossover installment, but deliberately zeroed in on just having a few IPs explored so more content from each could be featured instead of having a lot of IPs featured with puddle-thin content for each.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Looking at a possible ‘Nintendo Kart’, or more likely, a ‘Mario Kart + more guests’, I think the concept gets too much hate.

If we’re only covering first parties, that’s still a lot of depth with inclusions. Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing all returning from 8, Pikmin is the clear newcomer, Xenoblade makes sense too now Monolith is 100% owned by Nintendo (and also not having both ‘anime swordie’ series as DLC candidates).

That’s not even talking about currently ‘dormant’ series such as Star Fox and F-Zero, both of which I can see getting in.

I think the reason many are opposed to Nintendo Kart is that Mario Kart already does not a great job of representing the wider Mario universe, such as Wario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, etc.

But if I’m choosing between the likes of Ganondorf, Rex, or Samus in a go-kart, or Baby Dr. Tanooki Fire Rosalina, I think the choice is clear.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Looking at a possible ‘Nintendo Kart’, or more likely, a ‘Mario Kart + more guests’, I think the concept gets too much hate.

If we’re only covering first parties, that’s still a lot of depth with inclusions. Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing all returning from 8, Pikmin is the clear newcomer, Xenoblade makes sense too now Monolith is 100% owned by Nintendo (and also not having both ‘anime swordie’ series as DLC candidates).

That’s not even talking about currently ‘dormant’ series such as Star Fox and F-Zero, both of which I can see getting in.

I think the reason many are opposed to Nintendo Kart is that Mario Kart already does not a great job of representing the wider Mario universe, such as Wario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, etc.

But if I’m choosing between the likes of Ganondorf, Rex, or Samus in a go-kart, or Baby Dr. Tanooki Fire Rosalina, I think the choice is clear.

I think you're completely ignoring a few factors here

1. Mario Kart is not an adaptation franchise, it primarily thrives off of original tracks and karts - characters are the sole exception to this, and that's moreso a case of the general Nintendo character design mentality being based on functional purpose, it's not often Mario games introduce a character solely to play a diegetic plot role and not to represent a gameplay mechanic or mode. The only way I could imagine Mario Kart introducing a new character again is say, some kind of Rosalina or Pauline sidekick in Double Dash 2
2. Smash does not have thematic or aesthetic cohesion, it isn't meant to, but Mario Kart does - it's a cartoon world essentially, sometimes portrayed photorealistically other times not, but it's always very whimsical, with exceptions like the Ruined Dragon being intentional shock value made to feel out-of-place on purpose. This plays in the prior point as well, you can imagine basically anything in Mario's world, it's a lot more difficult to imagine an airport or giant tree as a racetrack in the world of Xenoblade or Star Fox, but the things you can imagine in a Star Fox or Xenoblade world may be possible to do in Mario's world - "a steampunk house atop a dragon" or "a lava planet" work well in the malleable world of Mario, even if they'd be very different.
3. Mario Kart is not a series primarily played by Nintendo die-hards, the percentage of Mario Kart players who know what a Pikmin or Fire Emblem is are likely in the single digits, hell the amount of Mario Kart players who know what Smash is is likely very low, there's probably a good amount of people who only think of Mario as a racing character and nothing else - a Nintendo Kart would completely baffle that audience at the benefit of only a very small sector of the fanbase that already has a game for them, not that making a game people "won't get" is a bad idea on its own, but making a game that will come off as incomprehensible slop without 40 layers of context, and having it essentially replace something that has historically worked well in a vacuum, isn't.
4. Going off of #3, the baby/metal/animal clones ARE popular, moreso than someone like Captain Falcon or Olimar. They're popular with "normie" fans, I used to be on the anti-clone train and regular people would be like "Wait, why do you hate Baby Daisy so much?" and thought it was weird to have a grudge against a cartoon infant.
5. If Nintendo considers Wario/Yoshi/DK/RPG seperate from Mario, then all the brand and co-ownership and creator endorsement hurdles they'd have to go through to get Nintendo Kart to work could just be used on Wario/Yoshi/DK/RPG content, which doesn't have most of those other problems, at least for most characters.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I think I should just write down what I could see happening in a Mario Kart + more guests.

• It won’t be called Nintendo Kart. A majority of the roster is still from the Mario universe.
• Nintendo will stick with their bigger, active series. I expect Metroid, Xenoblade, and Pikmin to be prioritised as new series inclusions alongside Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing.
• There will be a few other additions, such as Star Fox, F-Zero, etc. getting characters.
• In terms of what characters…?
  • Olimar. I don’t think Nintendo can feasibly do the commonly suggested ‘three Pikmin in a trench coat’ idea for every vehicle.
  • Samus is clear for Metroid.
  • Xenoblade seems strange at a first glance. I honestly think Rex might be the best choice, straddling the line between good representation and being ‘Scrimblo-ish enough’ in design.
  • Zelda, Ganondorf, and Octoling to beef up Zelda and Splatoon’s existing representation.
• 48 Tracks, but…
  • In a 16/16/16 split of nitro, retro, and crossover tracks, rather than the commonly suggested 24/24 track split.
  • With the BCP, I think Retro Tracks may be a bit lower priority until DLC rolls around again, giving new ideas from the Mario and other Nintendo universes a shot.
• Kirby and Fire Emblem as DLC additions, alongside new Mario characters. I don’t think having both ‘anime swordfighter’ series as DLC is a good look, so knocking one of them out in the base game is better.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think the reason many are opposed to Nintendo Kart is that Mario Kart already does not a great job of representing the wider Mario universe, such as Wario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, etc

Well that and Mario Kart is full of made-up locations for its racetracks, something people believe would go away if they had to devote resources to giving many Nintendo games their own tracks.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Due to this Nintendo Kart discussion, I just thought of an insane character pick for the next Mario Kart, if it still has Animal Crossing content.

What if they had “Animal Villager” as a character but it features every “generic” animal villager present in New Horizons as skins? They have different proportions, yes, but they share the same animations regardless, plus high quality models and textures for them already exist in NH. (The different villagers would obviously have different stats, but MK8DX already has a few instances of characters with different stats sharing a slot.)

Also, I'd be able to play as my current Dr. Robotnik's Ring Racers main in Mario Kart.

I don't think this is particularly likely, but it would be neat, and would give us a TON of character options!

 

[fogbadge]

Due to this Nintendo Kart discussion, I just thought of an insane character pick for the next Mario Kart, if it still has Animal Crossing content.

What if they had “Animal Villager” as a character but it features every “generic” animal villager present in New Horizons as skins? They have different proportions, yes, but they share the same animations regardless, plus high quality models and textures for them already exist in NH. (The different villagers would obviously have different stats, but MK8DX already has a few instances of characters with different stats sharing a slot.)

Also, I'd be able to play as my current Dr. Robotnik's Ring Racers main in Mario Kart.
View attachment 397384

I don't think this is particularly likely, but it would be neat, and would give us a TON of character options!

that's a lot of characters

 

[Diddy Kong]

I honestly don't really think Mario Kart should go that far beyond what it did in terms of crossovers than 8. Sure, Captain Falcon at this point might as well just be included. I'm also for the reinclusion of R.O.B., and extended casts of DK, Yoshi, Wario, Zelda and Splatoon. I just would keep things rather conservative. Ganondorf in a go kart seems a little... weird. I'd rather keep it with Link and Zelda in this case and don't go over and beyond with these "guests".

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I guess in terms of crossovers in Mario games, I've always liked the idea of Mario doing to the black box games what Pac-Man does to Namco arcade games and making those characters mainstay parts of the series (which is already kinda implied in the Mario movie). Sure, some characters would stick out like a sore thumb (Mach Rider, Samus, Wild Gunman), but characters like Duck Hunt Dog, Bubbles, Star Man, the Balloon Fight fish, or hell even pre-Uprising Pit feel like they'd fit as seamlessly into Mario's world as Dig Dug, Galaga, Mappy, so on do into Pac-Man's with only minor character design tweeks.

Rhythm Heaven characters also strike me as somewhat fitting, even ignoring the implied shared universe with Wario there's that same "bright, peppy, anything goes so long as it's silly and sweet" vibe as Mario and similarly low per-character lore to BB games, but most of those characters are uhh... kinda just a normal person, and a lot of the "normal people" characters tend to be the most memorable in a roundabout way I don't think would translate well to the typical Mario sports game, (Yuka, pop singer, the reporter, double date students, even Karate Joe and the chorus kids to an extent) since "normal guy in Mario Tennis/Golf" is something they tried and it didn't work.

 

[Laniv]

Thinking about Zelda again, and I've thought of a quest that weighs on my mind.

Do you think there's anything left to do with Ganondorf, in terms of writing?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Thinking about Zelda again, and I've thought of a quest that weighs on my mind.

Do you think there's anything left to do with Ganondorf, in terms of writing?

I think the notion of a more heroic (or at worst anti-hero type) Ganondorf variation existing and the struggle of resisting a push into villainy via Demise's curse and/or other nefarious forces could be interesting. Start him out as an ally or friendly rival to Link/Zelda with an eventual tragedy of them becoming enemies over the course of the game? There's potential pathos there if done right.

 

[Laniv]

Start him out as an ally or friendly rival to Link/Zelda with an eventual tragedy of them becoming enemies over the course of the game? There's potential pathos there if done right.

See this is what I thought Skyward Sword was gonna be. Ganondorf showing up as a benevolent ruler only to be pushed to evil from jealousy of Hyrule's prosperity could've slapped

 

[fogbadge]

Thinking about Zelda again, and I've thought of a quest that weighs on my mind.

Do you think there's anything left to do with Ganondorf, in terms of writing?

not really. ganon's never been a terribly complicated and it's unlikely to change

I think the notion of a more heroic (or at worst anti-hero type) Ganondorf variation existing and the struggle of resisting a push into villainy via Demise's curse and/or other nefarious forces could be interesting. Start him out as an ally or friendly rival to Link/Zelda with an eventual tragedy of them becoming enemies over the course of the game? There's potential pathos there if done right.

that's not how it works. ganon's evil is still his own choice

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Thinking about Zelda again, and I've thought of a quest that weighs on my mind.

Do you think there's anything left to do with Ganondorf, in terms of writing?

I think the notion of a more heroic (or at worst anti-hero type) Ganondorf variation existing and the struggle of resisting a push into villainy via Demise's curse and/or other nefarious forces could be interesting. Start him out as an ally or friendly rival to Link/Zelda with an eventual tragedy of them becoming enemies over the course of the game? There's potential pathos there if done right.

Ganondorf is still his own person. Denise's curse wasn't just a promise of Ganon. It was a promise that demons, villains and monsters would follow Link and Zelda wherever they go.

Denise's curse promised Majora, Bellum, Yuga, Malladus, and Zant. The true nature of the curse is that they can never escape evil. Ganondorf is still a part of it, but much like the other villains made their choices, Ganondorf still made his. He never had his agency robbed.

As for interesting things to do with Ganondorf, I'd love to play more into the schemer aspect. I'd love for there to be a three way battle for Hyrule. Link and Zelda vs Ganon and his forces vs some third force. We've had Ganon mastermind other villains but I'd love to see how he interacts with a group that isn't Hyrule, Link or Zelda.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Ganondorf is still his own person. Denise's curse wasn't just a promise of Ganon. It was a promise that demons, villains and monsters would follow Link and Zelda wherever they go.

Denise's curse promised Majora, Bellum, Yuga, Malladus, and Zant. The true nature of the curse is that they can never escape evil. Ganondorf is still a part of it, but much like the other villains made their choices, Ganondorf still made his. He never had his agency robbed.

As for interesting things to do with Ganondorf, I'd love to play more into the schemer aspect. I'd love for there to be a three way battle for Hyrule. Link and Zelda vs Ganon and his forces vs some third force. We've had Ganon mastermind other villains but I'd love to see how he interacts with a group that isn't Hyrule, Link or Zelda.

There might be a certain redundancy here, but I've been intrigued at the notion of Link/Zelda vs Ganondorf vs (a potentially time displaced?) Ganon. Basically, you have the cunning Gerudo King that while, fiendish wants a world to rule not a world in ruin vs. the more single-minded chaotic beast that is more than willing to plunge Hyrule into flames for the sake of his own vengeance. It could even manifest with both having different sets of enemy troops with the only common one being Moblins (the more civilized belong to Ganondorf and brutish following Ganon).

 

[Mamboo07]

There might be a certain redundancy here, but I've been intrigued at the notion of Link/Zelda vs Ganondorf vs (a potentially time displaced?) Ganon. Basically, you have the cunning Gerudo King that while, fiendish wants a world to rule not a world in ruin vs. the more single-minded chaotic beast that is more than willing to plunge Hyrule into flames for the sake of his own vengeance. It could even manifest with both having different sets of enemy troops with the only common one being Moblins (the more civilized belong to Ganondorf and brutish following Ganon).

I can imagine at the end having a full-on Ganon vs Ganon fight

 

[Lenidem]

There is a lot of narrative potential with Ganondorf and his interactions with Link and Zelda... but it is clear that Nintendo doesn't care about that at all. Remember the trailers of TotK, when everybody got their hopes up and thought that we would have, you know, a good story?...