The Nintendo "Off My Chest" thread (BE CIVIL)

[Diddy Kong]

It's not a separation, it's a connection. And it's lore exists longer now than it hasn't.

Rare established Donkey Kong as a separate character and series, and Nintendo had their fair share of decisions that lead to it. For example, Diddy started out as DK Jr. , but his design was too different so he had to be made his own character or Rare had to change his design. They went with the former.

There's no use to retcon this now. Cranky is also a beloved character by Miyamoto especially. He created Donkey Kong, and he co-created this lore himself. No reason really to expect anything different in the future.

 

[Lenidem]

Oooh boy, this topic again, I may or may not be obssessed:

I've been reading way too much of the discourse about DK's design, and I think I've really come to hate the "Cranky is old DK" lore - not because of the meta humor but more because it creates a stupid separation between arcade DK and Country, and people tend to take it way too literally as if to imply these are separate characters in an out-universe sense. I think it's high time this got "? blocks are Toads"ed out.

Hey, you and I agree on something!

 

[Good Night !]

There's no use to retcon this now. Cranky is also a beloved character by Miyamoto especially. He created Donkey Kong, and he co-created this lore himself. No reason really to expect anything different in the future.

Yeah, a lot of people tend to forget that Miyamoto himself worked on the game. It was he who supervised the game's development. All the characters in the game received Miyamoto's approval at one time or another.

So yes, maybe Nintendo have since abandoned the idea that Cranky = Old DK. But still, It was a part of the lore that was official at the time. It's not like it was a fan theory.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I mean, DK resembling his arcade look obviously doesn’t retcon the cranky lore, of course he’s gonna resemble his grandad a bit lol

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's not a separation, it's a connection. And it's lore exists longer now than it hasn't.

Rare established Donkey Kong as a separate character and series, and Nintendo had their fair share of decisions that lead to it. For example, Diddy started out as DK Jr. , but his design was too different so he had to be made his own character or Rare had to change his design. They went with the former.

There's no use to retcon this now. Cranky is also a beloved character by Miyamoto especially. He created Donkey Kong, and he co-created this lore himself. No reason really to expect anything different in the future.

Potentially stupid question: would it make sense for them to retcon Cranky into being DK's dad rather than his granddad like in the movie? I'll admit, I haven't kept up much with DK lore (for the longest time, I thought Wrinkly was always a ghost in the series), but... I don't know how to describe it, but I feel if anything from the movie gets tied into the games, it would probably be something like that. Or maybe having Mario and Luigi's family appear, since they were apparently based on official Nintendo concepts: that also seems somewhat likely, if maybe a bit much depending on how far they take it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think there has been any major change in quality in Mario Sports titles. They've always been fun 7/10 to 8/10 games with only a few exceptions.

That aside, Mario Strikers: Battle League, while sparse in content, is a lot better than people say.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I just think DK's new design just doesn't look that good. It worked for the movie, but his old design is just better all around.

The same goes for King Dedede's new design. It feels like they're trying to emulate his N64 design with modern graphics, and it just doesn't work. Even for a penguin king who wields a hammer in a series that's generally as cartoony as Kirby, it just looks too goofy. I also feel like it limits his expressions a lot more compared to his old and most recurring design.

Mario's Wonder design is more of an update to his normal one, and I don't personally mind it. But some of the other character redesigns Nintendo's come up with later just...don't work, in my opinion.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I don't think there has been any major change in quality in Mario Sports titles. They've always been fun 7/10 to 8/10 games with only a few exceptions.

That aside, Mario Strikers: Battle League, while sparse in content, is a lot better than people say.

I'd say quality-wise they've been very hit or miss lately, more often miss than not. They all suffer from a lack of content at launch and then putting bandaid patches on later; it's so underwhelming.

Gameplay-wise they've got cool ideas (I think Aces executed its concepts the best) but there's just not a lot to play with. Not to mention a lot of the newer spinoffs lack the soul the older Mario Sports titles had.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd say quality-wise they've been very hit or miss lately, more often miss than not. They all suffer from a lack of content at launch and then putting bandaid patches on later; it's so underwhelming.

Gameplay-wise they've got cool ideas (I think Aces executed its concepts the best) but there's just not a lot to play with. Not to mention a lot of the newer spinoffs lack the soul the older Mario Sports titles had.

That's the thing. I don't see there being a huge difference in content to what they used to be.

Like Mario Power Tennis had mini games and Aces had a story mode, but there's little difference in content otherwise. Mario Strikers and Battle League both pretty much just have the multiplayer and a basic tournament mode. (Charged had pretty much the same but at higher quality). I don't see a huge change in content for the most part.

I never played Mario Golf games because I don't like golf so I can't comment on that. Didn't that have a story mode too?

The finish it later approach is annoying but that only seems to be in regards to roster. And well "soul" is relative. I wish there was more visual variety in Battle League, but I feel like there's about the same amount of stuff to do as there always has been.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Potentially stupid question: would it make sense for them to retcon Cranky into being DK's dad rather than his granddad like in the movie? I'll admit, I haven't kept up much with DK lore (for the longest time, I thought Wrinkly was always a ghost in the series), but... I don't know how to describe it, but I feel if anything from the movie gets tied into the games, it would probably be something like that. Or maybe having Mario and Luigi's family appear, since they were apparently based on official Nintendo concepts: that also seems somewhat likely, if maybe a bit much depending on how far they take it.

I recall that Cranky is DK's father in the Mario Mo ie actually. Mario and DK had a bonding moment over their father's critique and expectations, and not matching them. So as it stands, Cranky is the father of DK. Which was the intention from the beginning.

 

[fogbadge]

Potentially stupid question: would it make sense for them to retcon Cranky into being DK's dad rather than his granddad like in the movie? I'll admit, I haven't kept up much with DK lore (for the longest time, I thought Wrinkly was always a ghost in the series), but... I don't know how to describe it, but I feel if anything from the movie gets tied into the games, it would probably be something like that. Or maybe having Mario and Luigi's family appear, since they were apparently based on official Nintendo concepts: that also seems somewhat likely, if maybe a bit much depending on how far they take it.

well he did claim he was DK's father in 64. I don't think it's been mentioned in game since then. I'd have to check

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Dwelling more on the DK redesign (why yes, I am unemployed, why'd you ask?) and I think I've just realised a major consequence of Nintendo's reluctance to embrace film/movie licensing, and embarassment about that past: Nintendo fans kinda just aren't ready for the ways that major adaptations can effect a wider franchise. Nobody - myself included - expected the new DK design from the movie to become the DK, but it should've been extremely obvious that that was at least likely. If you google "how did the MCU change the comics", you'll find tons of Reddit threads and content farm listicles going in gratitious detail on changes that I couldn't have ever imagined being different having only known Marvel through cultural osmosis.

Did you know that Nick Fury was originally white, and him being black was a spin-off alternate universe thing? Once the movies came out, they replaced the original Nick Fury with his black son also named Nick Fury, just because the movie version was more recognisable. Sure, this is probably obvious if you're a Marvel fan, but if you aren't, the idea of "white Nick Fury" seems as off as the AI memes of white Obama, and similarly, we're likely going to see a lot of changes to Mario as a whole based on the liberties the movies take, because there's gonna be a ton of people watching those movies who haven't played Mario games, and existing fans will really not be ready for it.

As more and more Nintendo games get adapted, these impacts on games will eventually get bigger and bigger and they dive deeper and deeper into series that are less known and more malleable in cultural headspace as a result. Movies are what Smash fans think Smash cameos are - the biggest of the big deals, the king-makers, the franchise revivers, and the cultural-idea-establishers. There will be changes, sometimes for better and sometimes for worst, and we really need to buckle up.

 

[Lenidem]

Did you know that Nick Fury was originally white, and him being black was a spin-off alternate universe thing? Once the movies came out, they replaced the original Nick Fury with his black son also named Nick Fury, just because the movie version was more recognisable.

Are you sure about that? If I'm not mistaken, the story is quiet different. In one of their alternate altough prominent universe, the Ultimate continuity, they changed Nick Fury's design from white to black, and they based his look on Samuel Jackson. Only later did the first Iron-Man movie come out, and the fans lost their mind seeing that Jackson was Fury's actor.

That being said, the comics indeed changed a lot because of the movies.

 

[fogbadge]

Are you sure about that? If I'm not mistaken, the story is quiet different. In one of their alternate altough prominent universe, the Ultimate continuity, they changed Nick Fury's design from white to black, and they based his look on Samuel Jackson. Only later did the first Iron-Man movie come out, and the fans lost their mind seeing that Jackson was Fury's actor.

That being said, the comics indeed changed a lot because of the movies.

read that again cause you said basically the same thing

 

[Dinoman96]

Real shame the movie has yet to lead to Foreman Spike becoming a series regular (like Pauline after Odyssey)...

 

[Otoad64]

Toad and Captain Toad should be the same character and it’s dumb that they apparently aren’t.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Real shame the movie has yet to lead to Foreman Spike becoming a series regular (like Pauline after Odyssey)...

It took Pauline 7 years to appear in Kart, Party, and the Sports games.
It's only been 2-ish years since the movie. Give it time.

 

[Dinoman96]

It took Pauline 7 years to appear in Kart, Party, and the Sports games.
It's only been 2-ish years since the movie. Give it time.

Pauline was already in the sports games (Mario Tennis Aces) and Mario Kart (Mario Kart Tour) as early as 2019, just two years after Odyssey in 2017 though.

 

[Lenidem]

read that again cause you said basically the same thing

Oops! I read too fast and only noticed the part about Fury's son, that I had never heard before. My bad!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Real shame the movie has yet to lead to Foreman Spike becoming a series regular (like Pauline after Odyssey)...

Amusingly, it took roughly 38 years after Wrecking Crew's release for Foreman Spike to finally have a voice portrayal.

 

[LimeTH]

I do think there should be a bit of curation, Wart or (undisguised) K. Rool come to mind as characters who would kinda just seem like "off-brand Bowser".

I disagree with this on the basis that Mario Kart 8 had 7 Koopalings, Bowser Jr and Dry Bowser, bringing up to a total of 10 Bowsers in one roster. 8 is swarming with off brand Bowsers. Wart and K Rool would be noticeably visually distinctive by comparison, simply because there are already so many characters in Mario Kart that look exactly like Bowser.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

People may not like the Koopalings for getting in over the Mario Kart veterans in Mario Kart 8, but we eventually got most of the veterans in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's Booster Course Pass.

Anyway, in terms of the Koopalings being in the Mario Kart series, I never saw them as being pointless additions to the Mario Kart roster. In fact, there aren't very many Mario Kart series characters whom I would see as "joke characters". Whereas, when you look at CTR: Nitro-Fueled, the likes of King Chicken and the Iron Checkpoint Crate are pretty much the definition of "joke characters".

 

[Perkilator]

With how much money Nintendo earned during the Switch era, I think they should stop being so stingy in general, and supporting unions would be one of the best uses of their vast fortunes.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If Nintendo really can't find an internal studio or smaller developer to make another Mario Baseball title, they should just bite the bullet and work with Konami in creating one. The latter's done some good work with Power Pro and given the large number of characters necessary for a baseball game, Mario/DK/Yoshi/Wario casts and Konami series unlockable characters (Snake, Bomberman, Simon, Bill/Lance, etc) would make for a really strong roster.

The world deserves to see if Pyramid Head can hit a double against Waluigi's fastball.

 

[MartianSnake]

If Nintendo really can't find an internal studio or smaller developer to make another Mario Baseball title, they should just bite the bullet and work with Konami in creating one. The latter's done some good work with Power Pro and given the large number of characters necessary for a baseball game, Mario/DK/Yoshi/Wario casts and Konami series unlockable characters (Snake, Bomberman, Simon, Bill/Lance, etc) would make for a really strong roster.

The world deserves to see if Pyramid Head can hit a double against Waluigi's fastball.

Why the assumption it'd have Konami guest characters? Not like the Mario baseballs we have include pac-man.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Less of an assumption, more of a hope I guess. I always get a kick out of non-Smash Nintendo crossovers and given you had Konami characters in stuff like New International Track and Field it seemed like a somewhat practical hypothetical, albeit somewhat unlikely.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The tile-based graphical style of modern 2D Mario is not complained about enough - there isn't a lack of creativity in modern 2D Mario, I don't even think there ever was, but the tile engine results in a really samey look in 3D no matter how many creative muscles are stretched.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What does tend to bug me is when a game introduces new enemies, but they only appear in a single course, and never get used again. Take New Super Mario Bros. Wii for instance, where the King Bill only appeared in World 9-8, and that's it.

 

[BritishGuy54]

What does tend to bug me is when a game introduces new enemies, but they only appear in a single course, and never get used again. Take New Super Mario Bros. Wii for instance, where the King Bill only appeared in World 9-8, and that's it.

Wrong, it also appears in NSMBU’s Soda Jungle-Parabeetle

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wrong, it also appears in NSMBU’s Soda Jungle-Parabeetle

Perhaps I wasn't being more specific when I made my last post. I more meant to say that it never got used again in any other part of New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Of course, World 9-8 was the very last course in that game, which can explain a lot.

 

[dream1ng]

Wart or (undisguised) K. Rool come to mind as characters who would kinda just seem like "off-brand Bowser".

If you look at the Mario Kart roster and see how many characters are just derivations of Mario (not just different forms, but also Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi), Peach (including Daisy and Rosalina), and Bowser, a character having similarities to another is not something that will hurt their chances.

Especially since Mario Kart seems to struggle populating the heavyweight class, including characters like Rosalina, Waluigi, and King Boo to fill out the ranks.

If anything I feel like those two barely ever showing up elsewhere is really what dooms them. I mean it's hard enough getting DK characters.

Anyway, in terms of the Koopalings being in the Mario Kart series, I never saw them as being pointless additions to the Mario Kart roster.

I would be underwhelmed by their inclusion were it not for how many bleh (imo) derivative characters there are, like babies Daisy and Rosalina, the alloy versions, Peachette, and furry Mario & Peach. I understand they appeal to a demo I'm not part of, and save resources, but I'm a dork who just wants to see more original characters, even if they're more minor. Which the Koopalings are, despite not being super personally exciting.

I mean I was kinda bummed we got Peachette in MK8D instead of Dixie or Nabbit or King Bob-Omb. But I get it. And honestly be it the Koopalings or mooks like Monty Mole or Wiggler or whoever, I'll take what I can get in a roster where we had to wait thirty years to even just get Kamek.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The funny thing about Rosalina, Waluigi, and Pauline is that they actually stand out when compared to the rest of the large-sized characters. If anything, they could be considered large-sized middleweights, which is the complete opposite of the medium-sized heavyweights like Metal Mario.

However, Nintendo never really got the memo when it chose to make Waluigi as heavy as Donkey Kong in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.