Wii/Wii U

[Sensai]

Good point Destiny Smasher. Good point. Didn't really think about the big picture.

I was just under the impression that if they sold for 200, every American living room would have one. Didn't really stop and think 'They're going to sell the initial shipment anyways, so why not get a little cash, too.'

Good points.

[Edit:]

GAW: Just read over my burning Wii controller post. Sorry if it seemed a bit pissy. It was really late at night (so late in fact it was the next day), and I was tired.

My bad, mate.

 

[Dark Yoshi77]

Finally got the chance to snag preorder today at ToysRus!

 

[Paranoid_Android]

I've come to the conclusion that the preorder really isn't worth much. Basically, all it does is tell Nintendo how many consoles they're going to need, and since they're already producing them as fast as possible, it's kind of pointless. Aside from that, it doesn't even guarantee that you get a console.

 

[Deleted member]

I got my preorder for the sole purpose of being able to walk into my local EB on launch daywithout any stress.

It's just a comfort thing for me.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

Yea, I'm still kinda worried about getting one.

But yea, what's the point in trying to lower the price for a more mainstream audience RIGHT NOW when they're gonna sell out anyway?
That's like Sony advertising the PS3 right now--what does it matter, right now? It doesn't.

Although Nintendo really is gonna need to pick up the slackanbd get Wiis to reviewing press and get some ads goin' soon enough.

 

[REØ]

ROFL.

I'm sorry, fellas. GAW, someone did say that. It's 100% sarcastic, OBVIOUSLY.

They were referring to the outlandish rumors concerning the Wii being buggy in the sunlight. They were just discarding it, but then Cassamassina (spelling) said that the controller DID explode. It was a joke.

There's nothing wrong with the controller.

DS: I understand economics. I'm not saying that Nintendo should GIVE Wii's away, I'm saying that if they charged only 200 dollars for the system (I think 150 would be great), EVERY household would get one. With 150 dollars (no game, of course), it'd be almost impossible to not pick up.

Can't believe you people believed the burns thing.../chuckles

Thanks dude that's a relief, can't wait to purchase my Wii.

 

[maelstrom218]

Yea, I'm still kinda worried about getting one.

But yea, what's the point in trying to lower the price for a more mainstream audience RIGHT NOW when they're gonna sell out anyway?
That's like Sony advertising the PS3 right now--what does it matter, right now? It doesn't.

Although Nintendo really is gonna need to pick up the slackanbd get Wiis to reviewing press and get some ads goin' soon enough.

See, this is the thing: we don't know how successful the Wii will be. . .and yet we're operating under this completely arbitrary set of assumptions that somehow the Wii will be super successful and start selling like crack brownies to a group of addicts.

What people seem to be forgetting amidst their blatant enthusiasm (myself included, btw) is that the Wii and its interface is so completely new to the videogame market that nobody, I mean nobody, will know how well it performs in terms of its popularity and units sold.

Think about it: certainly the hardcore gamer will be thrown off by the new interface. After all, it'll take a significant time investment to change from pads to wiimote. Furthermore, if you look at the opposite end of the gamer spectrum--the gaming n00bs, so to speak, like your conservative papa or young uncle--there's certainly not enough incentive to dive into gaming. Games are games are games--they're a waste of time when you could be studying.

Even worse is the fact that Nintendo's failed to aggressively market a product that is completely different than its predecessors. . .the Wii is so different from your standard console that you need to get the word out to every consumer, so they'll know what the heck the big deal is about the Wii, and why they should buy it. . .but there's no commercials, subway posters, or billboards that I've seen--and I live in friggin' NYC.

In short, here's the deal: Nintendo's releasing an unprecedented product into an untested market--they therefore don't even know if there's a demand for this product yet. Nintendo's taking a HUGE risk, even more so than the DS, yet they're not even taking steps to properly advertise.

In light of this kind of risk--and I think you'll agree with me when I say that Nintendo's betting EVERYTHING on the Wii--don't you think it'd be a prudent move to actually underprice the Wii and its associated peripherals so that it'd overcome the consumer's cost of adapting to a completely new interface, or the cost of going into gaming in general?

 

[applejack]

What do you mean they are not advertising enough?
There are almost three-hundred pages of people talking about it here.
Anybody who is anybody knows what a Wii is. Okay just kidding.
It looks like Nintendo is focusing more on the DS than the Wii. There are many commercials for DS games and accessories. I doubt if they will advertise much on TV until Spring. But they are doing well in magazines at least.
but that just means more for us for now, right?

 

[Destiny Smasher]

I totally agree that we don't know how well Wii will sell in the LONG RUN, which is precisely why they save the price cut for THEN, but come on, are you telling me you don't think the Wiis at launch will sell very well, if ONLY from Nintendo fans?
Launches have gotten crazier and crazier as time has gone on, and unless Nintehdo has a WHOLE LOT of Wiis ready, they're gonna sell out at launch, just like the DS did, even though there wasn't a 'killer app' for it at the time.

Nintendo is not betting everything on the Wii, they're doing mighty well in the portable area, and they always have.
Though I agree with you wholeheartedly (as I said above) about the advertising thing.

But as far as the "oh no! We need to get used to new controls!!"
Did you have trouble moving from a D-pad to a joy stick?
What about from a joystick to a mouse?
I think it's about as different to move from GCN to Wii as it is from GCN to keyboard + mouse. Meaning it WILL take time to adjust, but it took many people time to adjust other things in gaming.

I'm not assuming the Wii will do incredibly well next year, but I AM quite sure it will do well this holiday season. And if they sell out this Christmas from the hard core gamers, I don't see much point in wasting money on ads when people won't be able to GET any Wiis.
Maybe Nintendo wil llaunch an ad compaign at launch rather than before, I don't know.
I'm still wondering if I will be able to pre-order one in time for launch.

However, I DO think it's ridiculous that press still don't have Wiis to pre-play these games so they review them in time for launch.
We know the stuff is done at this point, so what's the hold up?

 

[Sensai]

^^^

Perhaps they're keeping it all a surprise. No reviews of Zelda mean that EVERYONE will be blown away by it.

Jeah, I have no idea. I think they just screwed up.

 

[maelstrom218]

I totally agree that we don't know how well Wii will sell in the LONG RUN, which is precisely why they save the price cut for THEN, but come on, are you telling me you don't think the Wiis at launch will sell very well, if ONLY from Nintendo fans?
Launches have gotten crazier and crazier as time has gone on, and unless Nintehdo has a WHOLE LOT of Wiis ready, they're gonna sell out at launch, just like the DS did, even though there wasn't a 'killer app' for it at the time.

No, you don't know how Wii will sell in the short run, either. I've already explained my reasoning for this: there's never been a market for this kind of interface before, so Nintendo doesn't even know if the demand is there. Is there a demand for videogames? Yes. Is there a demand for Nintendo products? Yes. Is there a demand for a new kind of controller where I can manipulate on-screen action with a wand in 3D space? Nobody knows. This inherent risk that Nintendo's taking is exactly the reason why they need to set a low pricepoint right at the offset.

But as far as the "oh no! We need to get used to new controls!!"
Did you have trouble moving from a D-pad to a joy stick?
What about from a joystick to a mouse?
I think it's about as different to move from GCN to Wii as it is from GCN to keyboard + mouse. Meaning it WILL take time to adjust, but it took many people time to adjust other things in gaming.

You act as if the transition from D-pad to analog stick was perfectly accepted by everyone. It wasn't. For example, try playing Soul Caliber 2, or Ikaruga on the Cube's analog stick. I'll tell you right now, it ****ing sucks. There are some things you just can't do on the analog stick, and fighting and shmups are some of them. In the same vein, ask yourself this: do you want to play SSBB with the Wiimote? Or the cube controller?

Whether you admit it or not, the new Wiimote is something completely different that'll take some time to adapt to. And honestly, some things would be better off on the D-pad or analog stick as opposed to the Wiimote. You shouldn't assume that people will quickly adapt to the Wiimote and accept it 100%. I know that I'll never, ever play traditional 2D fighters like Street Fighter or Guilty Gear on an analog stick, and the majority of the fighting community would agree with me.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

Dude, you need to CHILL...OUT...
Seriously. =P
It's not THAT big a deal.

I didn't say it was easy to transition, that was the POINT, silly.
I said it will take time, but people will adjust. Those were my exact words, thank you.
Of course it will take time, but it WILL be worth it.
And I played Ikaruga on the DC, and hated igt because I was FORCED to use a D-pad and it sucked.
Soul Calibur 2? I LOVED that on a control stick, as well. However, 2D fighters, not so much.
Maybe it "****ing sucks" for YOU, but that doesn't mean it does for everyone.
That's why some developers, like SNK, give you a deluge of control options in Metal Slug Anthology.

And of course I don't want to play SSBB with a Wiimote--unless they figure out a way to make it which, which I believe they COULD, but it would be overcomplicated.


Anyway, hopefully, by that whole ramble you came to the conclusion that many have come to--the Wii needs to come up with its own gameplay concepts instead of just trying to change familiar ones. That's why we have games like Elebits.

And sorry, I still disagree with the short run. We can bet safely that the Wii will sell well at launch. It simply will, I guarantee you. The DS did and there wasn't even demand for that, really, whereas there IS demand for this.

When did I say the Wii mote was not completely different? I did, that was the whole point of illustrating how we will get used to it.
Read my exact words--it WILL take time to adjust. So thank you for re-stating that for me. =P

As I said before, this isn't about shoving fighters on there of ol' and expecting them to work--you're right, they won't work as well.
That's why someone needs to come up with a whole new KIND of fighting game.
This is what the Wii will become in time--a console for all-new types of games, just like the DS was. Yes, there will be traditional games on there, too, and they'll be good *cough*Zelda*cough* but there's a whole new interface to play with.

Once developers start treating the Wiimote as an extension of the players arm in 3D space and fully act on that, I think a lot of things will change. It'll take time, to be sure, but we adjusted to the DS, and people will adjust to the Wii just the same.
Let me re-state this yet again--it WILL take time. But it will happen.
The Wii, ideally, will be like the DS: a bunch of fresh, innovative games that work well, and more traditional games, too.

But if you doubt the the Wii will sell well this holiday season (if only because it's a new console) I'd say you haven't been paying attention to the industry for the past few years.

 

[applejack]

I know that fighters and side scrollers will have a difficult time on it. However RTS's, FPS's, puzzle, family, sports and more will ,relatively easily, thrive. The Wii seems perfect for those, added with Nintendo's own genius they can make more genras successful on it.
It will take time to adjust, everyone knows it. The Xbox has like 15 buttons, the Wii may have 5-10. It is simpled down to appeal to a larger audience.
Plus the nunchuk isn't the only add on, has anyone forgotten that the Wiimote has the ability to have more than that to it? We can't predict what Nintendo will come up with, so we can't predict how other genras will fare. As it is a few will already be made for it.

20 days left.

 

[F8X]

Did not see this posted but a new video from ign(this is not fake) of the Wii(or at least new to joystiq XP)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjeQGUHDj7I

Very interesting, I wonder if the gamecube disc has to be put in the center or does it self center?

 

[Deleted member]

So who here thinks Twilight Princess is going to do better than Halo/2?

 

[applejack]

Do you mean Halo 3?
Please don't make me choose.
I can't choose, so I buy both. If I had to choose I would............I have no idea!

*dreams of Halo*
*dreams of Zelda*

Buying both. No choosing, choosing is bad. Don't make me choose.....
*rocks in feetle position*
"Precious, precious it's okay. My precious....." Gollum impersonation.

Hope that answers the question.

 

[smashman90]

Well, TP and Halo 1 & 2 are two different games so we can't really compare them. Unless you are talking about how well they will sell. If that's the case, then Halo/2 would be my choice. I can't wait til MP3 and Brawl come out.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean how well they will sell.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

It's possible, but unlikely. The reason Halo and Halo 2 were so popular is because they have replay value in the form of multiplayer - A multiplayer game never really gets old if it's made well (look at SSBM). While TP may be a thousand times better than Halo, it still won't sell as well in the long run.

... Or I could be dead wrong.

 

[FireBomb]

Multiplayer will almost always have much more replay value opposed to a single-player adventure game. Yet who knows, TP might have a lot more playable hours in it than we think. Or maybe it's so good we have to play it over and over.

No matter what, I want Zelda...

 

[smashman90]

Same here. If only MP 3 was still a launch title then I would get it instead of TP.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright fine, let's talk about release week / day, and the sales comparison there, not the long run.

 

[Sensai]

I imagine that TP will sell with a percentage compared to console sales at nothing less then 75% (if that made sense).

That being said, Halo/2 were the only things that Xbox owners had to play that was any good for a LONG time, meaning they sold closer to 1:1.

I'd personally bet the 2 Halo games, but I think it's probably closer then we think.

And I would hands down rather play TP then a Halo game. ANY Halo game, from 1 to 1000. Halo seems to be mockery of what FPS games should be. Play Counter Strike.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Not to get into a Halo argument, but I'm gonna have to agree... Halo is no good, nor are any current console FPS games, and while the Wii may make console FPS's viable in the future, it's unlikely that any controller will ever come close to matching the mouse and keyboard for versatility and precision.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

I dunno, I really think the Wii could do it if they figure it out.
Mouse is great and all, but you have to raise and drag, so there's still room for perfecting.
Didn't Ocarina of Time sell better than the Halo titles?

I have a feeling TP is gonna sell as well as OoT did, if not better. Just a hunch, of course. We'll see.

 

[Sensai]

I don't doubt that TP will sell better then H1. I don't doubt that TP will sell better then H2. I'm saying that it won't sell better then both of their figures put together. I mean, not because it's not a good game and not because the Halo franchise is good (god no!), but sheerly because people who bought H1 bought H2. People who buy TP won't buy it twice....

Now, if we were to add in the GC version of TP, that might be a different story.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

Oh, well, duh, of course it won't sell as good as both titles put together.
I meant inidividually.
OoT has sold more copies then either Halo titles.

Yea, I guess you could technically count both versions, too...But even then, I'm not sure it'd be the same.

Either way, as we write, people like Matt Cassamasina and Jeremy Parish are already trying out Zelda, so we should get impressions by week's end.

Furthermore, Nintendo is showing off new in-game Brawl footage at its Nintendo World tour in Japan, so here's hoping we'll get to see some of that soon, too.

 

[maelstrom218]

Destiny Smasher, if it sounds like I'm in a hissy fit, then it's only because I operate with less than 5 hours of sleep a night, on top of studying and practicing for Smash. Trust me, it's not like I'm directing animosity at you. >_>

Lots of stuff

Alright, so basically you're trying to make the point that:

1) Some games are unsuitable for the Wii.

2) The Wii's unique interface will create a need for new, innovative, different types of games that what standard gamers are familiar with.

For the first point, I'll agree with you. . .but I'll also point out that some of those games which are unsuitable for the Wii are games that people would ordinarily buy a system for. The only reason I bought a DS was for Advance Wars. Along the same lines, someone may look into the Wii, and realize that their favorite fighter happens to have botched controls, which will deter them from buying the system.

The Wiimote, as I've said before, is a risk, because the new control scheme will no doubt alienate gamers who would normally prefer a D-pad and control stick. It's precisely this reason why I argue that the price point should be lower.

For the second point, let me ask you this: do we really need new, innovative types of games at the expense of tried-and-true mechanics? I'll agree that innovation is important, but not at the risk of screwing up a standard control scheme.

Look at the DS. It's supposed to promote innovation and new gameplay, but that's hardly the case. How many innovative games actually work well on the DS? Kirby and Phoenix Wright are the only ones that come to mind. . .all the other great games are ones that control like any standard GBA game. Like Castlevania, Advance Wars, New Super Mario Brothers, and Mario Kart.

In the same vein, the Wii is bringing the new control scheme which is fine and dandy, but is running the risk of alienating developers who'd rather stick to D-pad and analog stick.

. . .just to be clear, I'm not hating on the Wii; I pre-ordered mine a long time ago. I'm simply stating that:

1) None of us know how the Wii will perform given the unprecedented control scheme and the unknown level of demand.

2) Nintendo runs the risk of alienating both gamers (and developers) by emphasizing innovation, which is why the price point should have been lower.

 

[Sensai]

Plenty of games are going to be created for the Wii that won't use everything it has to offer, and that's just fine. Look at the DS with New Super Mario Bros. It's the best selling game to date, but it doesn't really use the touch screen much.

Just because something doesn't use EVERY innovation doesn't mean it's going to be a failure.

 

[maelstrom218]

I never said the Wii would be a failure. I only said that the Wii's emphasis on a new control interface runs the risk of alienating a certain significant population of gamers and/or developers.

If you look at the Gamecube, there weren't many traditional fighters on there. Why? Because the Gamecube's control scheme had the analog stick as the primary means of input, as opposed to the D-pad (which was the case for the PS2 and Xbox). Thus, you have no Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, King of Fighters, or any of those games.

Point is, running with an innovative control scheme is perfectly fine. It's just that Nintendo is taking an awful risk. Like when Grand Moff Tarkin deliberately led the Death Star after the Millennium Falcon, and right into the jaws of the Rebel Alliance's secret base.

 

[Cashed]

In July it was reported Halo 2 had sold over 7.4 million copies worldwide. Ocarina of Time topped out at 7.6 million. I can't find any sales figures for Wind Waker, but it didn't sell nearly as well as OoT did. How will Twilight Princess do? Good, but I don't see it topping OoT's 7.6 million or Halo 2's 7.4 million. Halo Combat Evolved sold somewhere over 5 million copies on Xbox, and I can't find any figures for PC.

 

[Sensai]

Interesting link, showing all the Wii titles for the first 5 weeks, including the Virtual Console titles.

Check it out:

http://wii.ign.com/articles/742/742962p1.html

[Edit:]

In the latest Wii-pod cast from IGN, they talk about lighting problems and such. There are slight problems if you have SERIOUS lighting. As in like...studio lighting.

They say that if you have average lighting, you should be fine.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

Yea, I'd hope so.

Wii is for both experienced and uninitiated gamers, and it will be available for the masses. Because of demand, we're urging shoppers not to get complacent. The level of demand we're seeing goes beyond the ordinary. Retailers are telling us a significant fraction of customers pre-ordering Wii are nontraditional gamers - people looking for a better way to play. And that's exactly what Wii is designed to provide.

So, basically, Nintendo is saying we should pre-order--oh, wait, Wal-Mart preorders started and ENDED today in a span of 5 minutes. Dandy.

Also,
http://us.wii.com/soft_loz_tp.jsp
There's some people playing Zelda.
And it's none of that pre-scripted crap, it actually looks like these people are seriously playing it and figuring out how it works because they aren't the best at it. =P

---

Do you guys think all this jazz about demand for Wii will make it hard to get one launch week, or do you think I can still hold out hope for an online pre-order?
Seems Wal-mart alread had their PS3/Wii pre-orders this morning online--lasted about 5 minutes.

You think maybe it's because they're being extra cautious so as to not take too many pre-orders?

 

[blaksheap82]

I didn't even know Wal*Mart was going to preorder... there goes Plan B. Ah, I'll probably just wait for the second shipment; if they're really working on having 4 mil units shipped, it won't be hard to get one before the end of the year. And some people can always have preordered, then not have the money because of needing things like food and electricity more. Here's to still living with your parents ftw!

Those videos of people playing TP, as best as I could tell with the crappy camera angles on the TV's, showed Link swinging his sword in synch with how the people moved the Wiimote, so at least that fear is soothed. But it definitely looked like I'd thought about the spin attack is true, that shaking or whirling the Nunchaku to perform the spin attack makes it too easy when you're surrounded by enemies.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

It's true, but you can't do the spin attack whenever you want.
Listen to the game after someone does the spin attack and you hear a chime afterward.
Until that chime, you can't do the spin attack again.

Obviously, that will make it easier, but seriously, when has Zelda combat ever been hard?
Boss battles aside (or Wind Waker in general aside) combat has never been difficult in the Zelda series, and I don't expect it to here--though I do wish it ramps up as the game goes on.
As long as combat is fun and engaging, I won't mind if it's not hard all that much.

 

[Sensai]

You guys know that Matt Cassamassina (spelling) and a few other hand selected people are playing TP and have been since yesterday, right?

Well, it looks like a bit of information is leaking. I haven't read any of it because I want to be thoroughly surprised, but here are links to blogs for those interested.

Given, they're not the blogs of the people playing because they aren't allowed to say anything till Friday. So take all this information with a grain of salt.

General:
http://blogs.ign.com/optivillecmc/

In-depth:
http://blogs.ign.com/TheSilentAssassin/



(Question: Is that spamming, posting blog links? If it is, I'll take it off or a mod can, and sorry. If it isn't, then....well, then there it is.)

 

[Destiny Smasher]

I would imagine not if it's relevant to the topic, right?

Man alive, though...I am so grouchy about the prospect of not having a Wii in time for Thanksgiving...

Wal-mart sold all of their pre-order Wiis in a matter of minutes.
At this rate, I'd have to camp out at a store to be lucky enough to get a Wii that wasn't pre-ordered.

 

[Wuss]

Cashed is such an Xbox fanboy, jeez. Who cares about sales? Oot is a much better game than halo, halo 2, or any future halo game. WHy? The real question is Why wouldnt it be?

 

[Sensai]

WalMart did pre-orders?

ALL Walmarts? Are you sure.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah there goes my chance for selling a PS3 for crazy insta-cash.

 

[Vulpine51]

This just in. South Park is on and the Wii is part of the episode. Aparently Cartman is obsessed with the Wii. Just thought I'd share.

Edit: Yeah it just ended and it was pretty horrible.