Yoshi Discussion

[prisonchild]

so yoshi > mario, falcon > yoshi and mario > falcon? might as well be rock paper scissors.

 

[kys]

Tank's been drinking the special kool-aid if he thinks Mario>Falcon.

SK I was thinking tier list at first too. But Yoshi>Mario either way.

 

[prisonchild]

i think mario and yoshi are really even, but marios fireballs give him the advantage imo

 

[clubbadubba]

always tier list unless stated other wise.

4. Falcon

5. Yoshi

6. Mario

 

[Twilight Sparkle]

A defensive, fireball mario seems to work decently enough against a falcon whenever I face one in a 1v1. Otherwise, I'd be approached too easily and then comboed soon after.

 

[Z'zgashi]

^ Haha, loving your username.

 

[The Star King]

Mario is overrated and beats neither Falcon nor Yoshi

 

[M!nt]

Mario's overrated?

I do think he beats yoshi though, but probably not falcon.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I main Yoshi and second Mario, and Id say the MU is pretty even, maybe a bit in Marios favor. Id also say Mario v. Falcon is pretty even as well and Yoshi v. Falcon is a bit in Falcons favor.

 

[Twilight Sparkle]

I agree. Falcons do a fine job of comboing Yoshis. Marios as well, just not quite as great a job (though still a good job). Meanwhile, Marios' upsmashes work well against djc'ing Yoshis and a little reading won't hurt . I do, however, have a hard time playing Mario against a good Falcon, since he can maneuver around fireballs well enough to not get hit, lowering my chances for an approach.

EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong, but reading a Yoshi gets progressively easier as a match goes on. Jump back to djc forward with an aerial seems to be the approach too many Yoshis' use, and it hitting them as they jump back just before they djc becomes too easy. In short, does Yoshi have any other safe approaches? Djc gets overused (as an approach) and readable.

 

[TranqJim]

If you use yoshi quick enough to get someone off the edge, the spike is tooooo quick to dodge sometimes. However, i'd put both mario and cfalc above yosh in terms of overall ability.

 

[Robbydebry]

K so I have a few questions, First off I can get the djc most of the time but sometimes it like, jitters out. yoshi will hit the ground or move too far or use the wrong arial :/ I know it's just a control thing, but what can I do to increase my contro and speed? how do i go about practicing this stuff?

My friend plays fox CONSTANTLY and all he ever does is his dash-a and grabs and just edgegaurds constantly. I tear him to shreds with ness, but he said ness was "too cheep" (effing hypocritical spammer). I can get in some djc on him, but as soon as I'm over the edge I'm toast, he just hangs back a few feet so I can't egg or pound him and he just waits til he can dash me off agan -.- What can you do about that? xD He beats me 7/10 times. it's absurd. I need to get the chain djc down I think, or is it just mindless to try to beat fox with yoshi?

 

[Fish641]

K so I have a few questions, First off I can get the djc most of the time but sometimes it like, jitters out. yoshi will hit the ground or move too far or use the wrong arial :/ I know it's just a control thing, but what can I do to increase my contro and speed? how do i go about practicing this stuff?

My friend plays fox CONSTANTLY and all he ever does is his dash-a and grabs and just edgegaurds constantly. I tear him to shreds with ness, but he said ness was "too cheep" (effing hypocritical spammer). I can get in some djc on him, but as soon as I'm over the edge I'm toast, he just hangs back a few feet so I can't egg or pound him and he just waits til he can dash me off agan -.- What can you do about that? xD He beats me 7/10 times. it's absurd. I need to get the chain djc down I think, or is it just mindless to try to beat fox with yoshi?

I don't think you need to worry about djc right now. It doesn't sound like you're at the point where that really matters. Instead, think about spacing short hopped aerials and work on combos centered around an utilt

 

[Yobolight]

What are some good Yoshi approaches?

I feel myself playing a parry based game and I think it is becoming predictable.

 

[SheerMadness]

Depends on the match up.

But more importantly just do your best to be unpredictable. Yoshi has a bunch of viable approaching options as long as you're not too predictable.

Dash attack, djc bair, djc fair, neutral b are all good approaches.

Also you can change your aerial speed with double jump cancels. For instance, if a Pikachu or Ness likes to uptilt spam, take advantage of it by jumping above them then changing your aerial speed with DJC.

 

[Yobolight]

Depends on the match up.

But more importantly just do your best to be unpredictable. Yoshi has a bunch of viable approaching options as long as you're not too predictable.

Dash attack, djc bair, djc fair, neutral b are all good approaches.

Also you can change your aerial speed with double jump cancels. For instance, if a Pikachu or Ness likes to uptilt spam, take advantage of it by jumping above them then changing your aerial speed with DJC.

Usually with Yoshi I play against Falcon and Mario.

What about DJC Nair?
I do that a lot, but if it sucks let me know

With DJC Bair I feel like Yoshi turns around before I can get any good distance, whats up with that? Is short hop bair ever a good option?

With Neutral B, So you have them laid in an egg, what is the best follow up from that?
I often find myself confused on the options egglay gives you.

Dash Attack is something I am probably under-utilizing.

 

[SheerMadness]

Nair isn't the best approach since it's horizontal hitbox is pretty small compared to bair or fair. It's ok to use once in a while for unpredictability, but you're probably gonna wanna change it's speed with DJC to throw them off. Don't just run at them and DJC nair as fast as you can.

If you're always turning around while trying to DJC bair you're hitting the A button way too late.

With Neutral B you obviously want to hit them while they're in the egg to rack up damage. Depending on how fast the person mashes you can get between 1-3 DJC'ed aerials on them. To follow up you probably wanna jump above the egg and nair when they escape. They always escape up so just be above them.

 

[The Star King]

Nair is good for things like attacking dashdancing/pivots (not djc, but jumping and flying with a nair sideways, dunno how to put it) or avoiding a hitbox by slowing your descent with a djc and then a nair (i.e. you are falling and you think Ness is about to utilt you, you jump, wait a tiny moment, and nair, and you fall on him when the hitbox is away if you time it right).

It's kind of hard to describe this stuff in words but yeah.

To follow up you probably wanna jump above the egg and nair when they escape. They always escape up so just be above them.

After someone escapes the egg there is a window where they are invincible but can act, so trying to nair them as they break out is pretty unsafe. I've never seen you try to nair me right after I break out of Yoshi's neutral B so maybe you know this INSTINCTIVELY.

 

[clubbadubba]

falcon ***** mario. EZiest matchup in the game

 

[tacos]

^lolu

wut

 

[Yobolight]

I have been trying to impliment the Yoshi wave dash, but it is hard to get anything useful consistently. Any tips?

 

[clubbadubba]

ummmm, wrong game? Wavedash is not a term in 64. Are you talking about his double jump cancel?

 

[rpotts]

I'm assuming you're talking about the Yoshi 'waveland' aka using his double jump to immediately land neutral on a platform, I don't think 'wavedashing' with him serves any purpose whatsoever other than to HRRRRRRRNG repeatedly.

Try full hopping to the first platform in the middle of Hyrule, it seems to be pretty good height to start out with. From there try to get the timing for double jump -> uptilt, it seems to be a good starting point and probably one of the more useful options with it. Jabs are also sorta useful, you can follow up with a run off aerial at medium percents.

Anything in particular you're trying to do with it? Just want to recreate the awesome Prince and Isai combos you see?

Like this Isai Yoshi combo?

 

[Yobolight]

working on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0HVB4_IjXM

seems like a decent spacing tool / mind game.

 

[rpotts]

omg, it's worse than I thought.

It's not a decent spacing tool. It's an amazing HRRRRNG tool, but that's it.

 

[XKCP]

^that

It's not like you'll be able to utilize super armor frames or even parrying while messing around with that tech.

 

[The Star King]

Actually parry djl could potentially be good, just nobody has really implemented it much

I was planning to learn it when I trained up on CONTROLLER (which I never did )

 

[SheerMadness]

Oh BTW

After someone escapes the egg there is a window where they are invincible but can act, so trying to nair them as they break out is pretty unsafe. I've never seen you try to nair me right after I break out of Yoshi's neutral B so maybe you know this INSTINCTIVELY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhymMBNpvuc

Don't remember the time stamp formula so take the extra 5 seconds and go to 3:26 of that vid.

 

[The Star King]

Cool vid? The invincibility ended, I meant like immediately after.

It can work I'm just saying it's not guaranteed. TANK could have uaired you in that situation for example.

Also you can right click on the Youtube video and press "Copy video URL at current time" lol

 

[Yobolight]

Pretty effective mixup though.

Thanks Sheer

 

[TANK64]

@Yobo, don't listen to these scrubs! Yoshi's waveland with his second jump is a super good tool to use to land on platforms and continue combos. I've been campaigning this technique for years but literally the only other person I've ever use it in regular matches in Isai.

Oh, and continually doing in on the ground to move like in that video is useless though (no matter what Ricky tells you). It's good on platforms. Practice that shiz.

Fox's shine landing is the same idea. People use this but not enough on platforms (mostly to show off). Except for me, Ballin, and Europe lol. Come at me world.

Spoiler

Taunt canceling is also under-used.

Spoiler

but like seriously

 

[The Star King]

@TANK we were talking to him about the "wavedash" (lolterm), not the "waveland". If you ever play my Yoshi I use the platform land more than anyone so I definitely know about it.

Same with Fox shinelands... play me jeez (but seriously)

 

[TANK64]

I actually got vids of my Yoshi in friendlies vs Loto =)

Crunk Yoshi but still infinity better than any vids I put up last year or whatever.

I'm uploading TONS of friendlies after teams, so be ready =)

and like seriously... we need to play.

I heard you're really good at super smash brothers.

Christmas break my friend =) Sooooon.

 

[ballin4life]

Fox's shine landing is the same idea. People use this but not enough on platforms (mostly to show off). Except for me, Ballin, and Europe lol. Come at me world.

And ness DJC land.

I love the upwards attack -> shine land / DJC land on platform -> upwards attack combo

 

[clubbadubba]

nobody shine lands like isai, that **** is nuts.

 

[ballin4life]

nobody shine lands like isai, that **** is nuts.

vids ?

 

[The Star King]

probably in those Apex videos KnitePhox never uploaded

 

[clubbadubba]

i remember watching him vs hardbody at apex, I think it got recorded maybe? shines all over the place

Spoiler

I wish they were star king, then they might actually be a ****ing PRIORITY. But its just me so who gives a ****

 

[Dingus]

1) If I hit a d-air on shields that doesnt quite break, is there any guaranteed follow up to finish them off?

2) What are the frame windows like on doing djc n-air shield breaks. How many frames of shield stun do you actually get on a n-air? How perfect do the inputs on the chain have to be?

3) How do you practice shield breaks?

 

[Battlecow]

best way to practice shield breaks is with a friend

you can also do stuff where like you run right next to a CPU and if you do it right they'll roll behind you and hit shield for a second and then you can practice breaking on that

I think utilt...probably comes out in time? Maybe not. your fastest option's prolly jab so if they're like 2% away from breaking (rare) that's prolly your best bet theoretically. Doubt that would come up though.