Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[Mocha19]

Ahh I'm not a big fan of Japes, but it's definitely either that one or Frigate. *nods to Villi*

 

[Deleted member]

oh...my...god....

i'm not even going to start, i'll end up saying the exact same things that i said during the link vs olimar match up

all you zelda mains need to watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

i use her fair to momentum cancel

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I agree with what's posted here.

60:40 olimar is probably right, no worse than 65:35

Recomended stage: Frigate Orpheon

 

[Snakeee]

60/40 Olimar sounds about accurate.
But, I love turning his little minions against him

 

[-Mars-]

oh...my...god....

i'm not even going to start, i'll end up saying the exact same things that i said during the link vs olimar match up

all you zelda mains need to watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

i use her fair to momentum cancel

I use bair since it's a lot faster than fair. I already saw that video from lurking the Link boards and it's really the best instructional vid on DI to date. All of you Zelda mains should study it, but I still can't see why you use fair over bair.

 

[Deleted member]

I use bair since it's a lot faster than fair. I already saw that video from lurking the Link boards and it's really the best instructional vid on DI to date. All of you Zelda mains should study it, but I still can't see why you use fair over bair.

because i didnt have frame data for zelda lol

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I think 65:35 would be good, but if I´m outvoted 60:40 will do just fine.

If you like playing risky, Japes is propably better CP. Otherwise Frigate Orpheon.

 

[asob4]

can't olimar use the same DI >_>

i live to insane percents despite WAC with just amazing DI
not to mention oli has pretty good DI

 

[Kataefi]

Zelda's DSmash at higher percents normally puts an end to him whether he's DId well or not.

 

[Bandit]

@Kataefi

Agreed. Dsmash against anyone high percents is death.

I feel comfortable on Frigate and Japes as I have been experimenting with them as CP's for Zelda anyway. Japes gets rid of the pikmin; frigate provides an easy gimp (though a punishable edge for Oli). Either one is viable and simply depends on how comfortable you feel. I don't have too many problems getting out of the water on Japes but it does hamper killing vertically which Zelda does so well.

I'd favor Frigate.

 

[Deleted member]

can't olimar use the same DI >_>

your moves turn to garbage when they're DI'd and since olimar is so light it won't help you as much

 

[DanGR]

lol, you guys are too funny.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

your moves turn to garbage when they're DI'd and since olimar is so light it won't help you as much

Oli is heavier than Zelda.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

he is? wow so much for body size and weight matching up.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

he is? wow so much for body size and weight matching up.

it's not that oli is heavy (which he is considering his size) it's that Zelda is too light.

 

[Deleted member]

check any weight list, zelda is higher than olimar

 

[Brinzy]

DI helps Olimar immensely. You DI up for the most part so you don't have to worry about using Up B.

 

[Snakeee]

I think Delphino is a good stage against Olimar (and in general). Most Olimar players I've seen don't like that stage for him either.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

check any weight list, zelda is higher than olimar

hmmm... yup. it's true. they are close in weight, but zelda is slightly heavier.

wow... then whoever said olimar was a middlewieight earlier was out of their mind, because ZELDA is light and she's heavier than oli.

While it's true that Olimar is floaty, he isn't light- but actually middleweight.

I guess I just took on faith that was a true statement... guess not.

 

[Brinzy]

Does anyone here have any idea as to why Delfino isn't good for Olimar?

Or... does anyone know any other stages he doesn't like? I don't think Zelda is too keen on Delfino, either.

 

[asob4]

last i checked (which was long long ago) oli was about the same weight as falco

frigate is NOT bad for oli
we can just put up our fortress and camp the side with the ledge
the platforms for each part of it help olimar tons
no ledge works against you too

i don't mind delfino, but some parts can be a little troublesome, but for the most part they all benefit him (walk-offs, water, ledges, low ceilings)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

last i checked (which was long long ago) oli was about the same weight as falco

frigate is NOT bad for oli
we can just put up our fortress and camp the side with the ledge
the platforms for each part of it help olimar tons
no ledge works against you too

i don't mind delfino, but some parts can be a little troublesome, but for the most part they all benefit him (walk-offs, water, ledges, low ceilings)

and falco is lighter than zelda.

then zelda stakes out that side.. if you are limiting yourself to half the stage you normally would, then the stage is putting you at a disadvantage... you are losing versitility.

 

[asob4]

and falco is lighter than zelda.

okie doke
i said it has been a while since i looked at one

then zelda stakes out that side.. if you are limiting yourself to half the stage you normally would, then the stage is putting you at a disadvantage... you are losing versitility.

it's not really limiting when you're the best camper in the game >_>
it's what we do anyway when it comes down to it.

pikmin will hit more often than dins fire, and assuming you're on the moving platform then you won't be able to reflect them and having them hit us.
so part one is advantage us.
part two is just a normal stage, could go either way probably (most likely us though >:] /bias)

 

[Half-Split Soul]

hmmm... yup. it's true. they are close in weight, but zelda is slightly heavier.

wow... then whoever said olimar was a middlewieight earlier was out of their mind, because ZELDA is light and she's heavier than oli.

I guess I just took on faith that was a true statement... guess not.

I´m sorry, my information was from the time Brawl was just recently released. Back then I remember reading and posts and lists that stated Olimar heavier than Zelda around the middle of the cast. I should have checked if it were even close to truth anymore...

Does anyone here have any idea as to why Delfino isn't good for Olimar?

I posted this some time earlier, but I can post it again. When the stage turns into one of it´s forms with water, Olimar can easily lose his Pikmins and get edgehogged when the stage rises again. Always changing stage also severely disturbs his camping game and might give Zelda some chances for approach.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I don't know. on most other stages, if Olimar were that low off the stage, he'd already be dead. the water kills his pikminz but helps him.

I say orpheon. that right edge screws olimar hard on the first transformation and the stage is small limiting his run away game.


Oh, and theres' always rainbow cruise which COMPLETELY eliminates Olimar's ability to camp

 

[asob4]

RC is getting really good for oli >:]

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

RC is getting really good for oli >:]

I have never lost to an olimar there and I don't intend to.

Olimar has an absolutely terrible offensive game. he is built to be defensive and campy. Raibow cruise allows olamar to camp while on the ship, but as soon as that ship crashes, he needs to start moving.

if he can't plant his feet, he can't use his grab game. he can't maintain a position and camp because that position is soon gone.

he's not very mobile so he can't outflank oponents and force the stage to bring foes to him.

nothing save the ship has grabable ledges so he has an AWFUL time moving throughout the stage.

Rainbow cruise is a bad stage for olimar. Saying that olimar is good at it would be like zelda mains saying zelda has the best offensive game in the game and is unable to be outcamped and thusly you should aproach her ASAP. A poor attempt to trick oponents into making bad decisions so as not to exploit your flaws.

There is no way olimar holds onto an advantage against anyone on raibow cruise who isn't completely terrible at rainbow cruise.

it gimps him left and right like it's the stage's job. Very few grabable ledges render him incapable of recovery in many cases and seriously inhibits his ability to platform at all. And stage movement removes his ability to camp.

if Olimar doesn't ban this stage ASAP, then DEFINITELY make this your counterpick... if they do, then use orpheon

 

[Half-Split Soul]

RC is getting really good for oli >:]

I know that Oli has Pikmincide in RC, but how else is it getting good for him? If Pikmincide is only good thing for him in that stage it definitely isn´t enough.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Well, i would still pick Jungle Japes over Frigate >_>

In Frigate Olimar can still camp very well AND the supposed ledge gimp is not good unless he's recovering low since he's floaty and has nice jumps plus the Up-B boost

In Jungle Japes the water leave him with very few Pikmin so even if he falls at the right side of the stage he may die regardless of percentage since he'll only have like 2 or 3 pikmin so 2 pikmin = unable to reach the ledge and you can spam Din's (yes spam ) to get free damage if he's almost reaching the walk-off (swim off? >_< ) and Zelda just get's as much survability as Olimar since Olimar likes to kill vertically and the horizontal KOs can be DIed to the water ^_^ such as his D-smash D:

In Rainbow Cruise you'll be more worried about avoiding Pikmin and not falling behind D: Dunno about Olimar >_<

 

[asob4]

talk to fino about RC

only one part in particular is bad for him (the pendulum)
everything else is walk off ledges, low ceiling, and close walls. think about it.
blue bthrow and any usmash will kill at ridiculously early percents

keeping up with it isn't a problem and it helps our camping because you have to worry about the stage AND pikmin

and whoever said oli has no offensive game is an idiot who has played no good oli.
disjointed hitboxes, decent range in air, amazing low lag smashes with great range, good ground speed, good DI, amazing grabs, and a great approach. he isn't offensive... how???

 

[DanGR]

lol at Olimar not having offensive options.

 

[Kataefi]

No Olimar's offensive capabilities are actually through the roof. He can switch styles in a matter of seconds when it suits him.

Olimar is destined to become one of the best characters in the game once his camping is perfected. His only hindrance is his recovery, and that's what we have to capitalise on.

I feel comfortable on japes more than RC. I think japes is quite a good counterpick.

 

[GodAtHand]

I hate fighting Oli,

0-100 Olimar

JK

but really.......





Can someone please explain the RC thing to me? I thought it my head it was a good CP and would like to know specifically what Oli can do. A link to a thread would be cool too.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

he isn't offensive... how???

he has poor approaches. To olimar, offensive means moving towards you with pikmin spam so that you still end up approaching him.

his dash grab is nothing special compared to his real grab. his dash attack is bad, his aerials are bad approaches because they are punishable if sheilded/dodged.

he's got an excelent defensive game... which he can't use on rainbow cruise. but his offensive game is meh.

 

[asob4]

here's fino's rant on RC being good for oli
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199312

there is such a thing as a running shield grab >_>
fading fairs are excellent
pikmin toss distracts setting up perfectly for a grab combo, not to mention purples stun you enough

i feel no need to argue with you....

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

while it has some valid points for things that Olimar CAN do on the stage, that isn't enough to counteract what the stage does to him.

Listen, it's completely improbable that a stage would render every possible strategy for a specific character utterly useless, but RC DOES put quite a bit of hurt on olimar. Now olimar will probably be familiar with it since it's constantly used to CP him, but all that thread really was was stage specific strategies.

Every character has strategies for every stage, even bad ones. Just because olimar has stuff he can do, that doesn't mean it's a good stage for him. It's an awful stage for him and, so long as Zelda is familiar with the stage and bides her time on the ship, she should have no problem beating olimar here at all. most olimars are smart enough to ban it, but if they don't feel like it then have at it.


Japes is a bad olimar stage, but it's a bad zelda stage too. hurts her recovering ability, REALLY hurts her ability to approach the side platforms and hurts her ability to get KOs off the top.

 

[asob4]

it really does not hinder oli as much as you think

over half the stage benefits oli greatly, the rest is an inconvenience. when it goes to the far left up to the pendulum. everything else works in his favor.

oli can just run from you the whole time spamming pikmin as you keep up with the stage and keep pikmin off of you. then when the stage is at the top, a single usmash will kill at like 80, or maybe 50 with a purple.
on the far left, where it scrolls up all oli needs to do is stay on a carpet and he doesn't have to worry about anything
but even then, in that same area a bthrow can kill ridiculously early.

how can you say it's bad when 1. you don't play as oli and 2. you've never played as oli on it/played a smart oli on it

your theorycraft is proven wrong by experience by many people

 

[popsofctown]

like my experience. Losing 9/10 matches against Olimar as Zelda. And then later winning 6 out of ten with Luigi, so it's obviously not just me..

 

[Bandit]

On Japes, Zelda can ledge warp as long as she is on the middle platform to any one of the 4 edges that are there. From there, you have a bunch of options. Olimar owns the side stages with UAir going through the platform, but he does that with any edge.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Gah I hate that little *******!

Fortunately I found my way around his evil, evil moves/size pretty quickly. I played quite a few matches, but this is all based on one Olimar (a good main).

Learn how to space NL. Though it's a laggy, laggy move, so is pikmin through. Prepare to block just in case, but you should be fine.

Smash the **** out of him. Some of his moves are reallllyyy fast, so you need to predict the approach. When he's mid-high%, U-smash is really easy. Try to catch him with a SHFFAD (?) > D-smash after those pikmin throws/grabs.

D-tilt lock seems hard for him to get out of. USE IT.

Open up plenty of cans of Din too. Not necessarily spam, but it's a good counter to pikmin throws, recovering and aerial approaches.

It's more than likely you will get grabbed, but it seems that olimars always try to follow up with an aerial after a grab. DI away and they'll stop trying.

Being defensive works best. I know you're tempted to unleash the beast, but that will only get you punished.