I mean it's an opinion. And I had to respect it. But I think it was just too sudden to come up with that type of tier list with no reason whatsoever. I think Seagull needed to explain why he placed the characters like that.
Sorry for the flaming Seagull.
I think i'll make my own Tier List right now. I'll try to explain the placement of the characters.
S:
(Rosalina and her Luma are insanely powerful. Some good aerials, the best spacing tools in the game, Up Air ridiculous range, pretty strong Smash Attacks and a good recovery. With his little Luma she is pretty strong. The thing you need to know is that Rosalina without Luma is actually a C tier character. And that's really bad. She gets down from the top tiers, to the bottom tiers. She is just so godlike with his Luma and her powered up Smash Attacks or any attacks in general. But when she's alone she isn't that great anymore. And then we get to Sheik. Without a doubt the best character in the game. She does require a little bit of practice to get used to her. Bouncing Fish has to be one of the most effective edge guarding tools in the game. She just goes so far with so little effort. And she can come back to the stage with no problem whatsoever. She also has an insane Forward Air that can be auto canceled and it can just go almost to the end of the stage and finish you off with a Bouncing Fish. Needles are really good for pressure, her aerials doesn't have any lag at all, She can do strings of Forward Tilts and then continue with some Forward Airs or Up Airs, Amazing grabs (Down Throw and Forward Throw). Tipper Up Smash kills pretty early, And she can even do a bait with Down Throw. She throws you with Down Throw, jumps and then she does her teleport and takes the stock. She can also go really deep for a kill and still get back on the stage. She is just amazing with everything she does and almost no one can stop her. And she gets even better with Customs.
A+:
(I don't think some of this characters need explanation. But even then I'll still do it. Sonic has a really good mind game with Spin Dashes, can block almost inmediatily with Spin Dash into Shield, good aerials, good smash attacks. Spring is good for pursuits in the air, the fastest character in the game, good pivot grabbing and good specials. He's a damn solid character but he loses to the top tiers and has a really hard time againts R.O.B. Luigi is still here because even with his bad match-ups he still has an amazing combo game. Fireballs are still a good cover for him and a free grab if they are normal blocked and he gets the job done on Mario pretty easily. And Mario is one of the most balanced characters in the game and he still loses to Luigi. Ness also has a pretty good combo game with grabs and Forward Air, Neutral Air is stupidly fast and a good out of shield option. Can absorb energy projectiles and has good specials. Only downside: He can be gimped really easy thanks to his poor recovery. Since his only chance is PK Thunder. Pikachu is one of the masters of how to combo. Insane combo and damage output. Not because his attacks are strong. But because he can rack them up so fast and so safely. Quick Attack has to be the best teleport in the game and he is a master at recovering on the stage. But here's the thing: You can kill Pikachu easily because he is a lightweight. So you need to concentrate againts him and don't lose control. That way you will kill him no matter how hard he tries to kill you because Pikachu does have trouble killing. Villager is an amazing zoning character with good aerials and now with a Throw Combo. He has a pretty good recovery and his tree is a good gimmick move to kill people. He gets beated by reflector/fast characters though. Zero Suit Samus is almost an S tier character. She also has one of the best movesets in the game. Amazing aerials, Some of the best Special moves in the game, pretty good ground attacks. Then what the hell she isn't in the S tier list? Pretty simple: Her grab. She has a pretty bad and laggy grab that doesn't let her get into her bread and butter combos like Down Throw into Up Air, Up Air, Up B. Or Back Throw into Down B (Only at certain percents in some specific characters).
A:
(Lucas is here because I think he does deserve more recognition. He also has some of the best throws in the entire game and his neutral air strings are pretty insane. PK Fire is a good zoning move, his aerials have disjoints and don't have too much lag. Mario is a pretty balanced character and easy to pick up. He has a really good spread of match-ups in the entire game and he has a little bit of chance on beating the S Tiers. Captain Falcon has an insane neutral and some of the best movesets in the entire game. But his disavantages againts some characters are really bad. Fox is here because he does have a good neutral game and can rack-up damage really easily. Also his Jab combo into Up Air is still ridiculous for me. But it's quite good. Diddy Kong even with his nerfs it's still strong and viable. Banana is just an amazing tool for him and we keep seeing new stuff from him.
A-:
(I putted Peach in here because since she hasn't been explored, she has some good potential. I have seen some pretty good peaches in For Glory and have played other peaches in online tourneys. The same goes for Yoshi and Megaman. They are pretty good characters but in other ways: Yoshi is good with his combos, spacing and his Neutral Air is pretty damn fast on shield. Megaman is a good zoning character that can kill other top tiers pretty easily. Like Captain Falcon. Roy has some really good damage outpot and some of the strongest Smash Attacks in the game. Specially Forward Smash. Not at Tipper Marth level but it's still pretty good.)
B+:
(The Mid-High Tier characters. Link has improved pretty nicely and you need to be more careful when you approach him. The same with Ike. Bowser.Jr has some unexplored. Falco also got some really good buffs that make him get in here. And Wario because he has some pretty good protection with his Bike and has some good attacks like Forward Air, Neutral Air, and his jab his good for spacing. Mii Gunner is a good spacing character too. But some of his attacks really have some bad hitboxes or aren't as good as other characters attacks. Marth is one of thoser characters that even though they change pretty often in the games, they can still be good. Marth has changed his playstyle from being a rush-down Sword Man, into a Punishing and edge guarding Sword Man. Now you need to play really smart with Marth. If you do calculate your choices and make good decisions on the match, you can win pretty easily with him. With his buffs to his jab now he has more options to space himself and even a Tippered Forward Smash confirm with a Jab Cancel or something like that. I don't like how Marth plays in this game. But even then I have to admit that the player and the chracter need to be smart and patient to be really good. Although I would recommend a secondary because Marth does have trouble with some match-ups like Fox, Captain Falcon or Sonic. Shulk has been a really long debate. Zero thinks that he's Top Tier with Customs. Other people say that he sucks. And other people just can't decide. I think that Shulk is a good character. His Monado Arts are pretty amazing and help him alot on his matches. Speed is really good for catching up with Sonic, Fox, Captain Falcon or Sheik. Jump is good for offstage pursuits and getting back on the stage. Shield makes him so heavy and hard to kill. But even then he can be gimped with a thrown or another gimmick attack like Mario's Cape or FLUDD. Buster is just amazing to rack up damage quickly and you can feel the satisfaction of getting every single hit while you have your Buster activated. And Smash art is uself to get some pretty early kills. If Shulk actually got some attack end lag reductions. He would easily be in any A Tier Class. His frame data just stops him from being one of the best characters in the game.
B:
(Middle tiers. Pit and Dark Pit are really good on their own. But you really do need a secondary character to be effective and have results. Kirby is the highest in here because he has pretty good air mobility, good aerials, good attacks and a pretty good recovery. The problem with him is that he has some bad Specials like Down B or Up B. With customs he is easily an A Tier. Charizard is in here thanks to his buffs and now he has more reliable tools to get damage. R.O.B has some good attacks and really nice frame traps like Down Throw into Up Air. But his problem is that you can pick-up his gyros and just block his laser. Duck Hunt Dog relies too heavily in proyectiles and he gets destroyed by fast characters. Although he can also zone them too. Grenina back in Smash 3DS days, was a top tier character. Good aerials, fast approach, a good projectile and damaging Smash Attacks. Then... The Greninja nerfs came. And he went from A or A+ tier to Middle Tier. He hasn't had a good time around this days. But even then he's still a really solid character. He still has his good approaches and good aerials. But he doesn't have the killing power he had in 3DS days. Mr. Game and Watch has some good aerials, nice recovery and some good ground attacks. But he's a lightweight. So he can't compete properly since he gets killed to early and sooo many times. If he was given more weight and better ground attacks. He would be pretty solid. Even go to A- Tier. Lucina is still a Marth Clone and though I don't like this at all. She still has the good aerials that Marth does, only with less damage and no tipper. I would love her to be faster than Marth so that way we could get a difference between them. Even then Lucina can still do good in a tournament. You could use a secondary with her though.
B-:
(Getting tired of explanations X_X. Jigglypuff has a really good aerial mobility and good aerials. But she isn't so strong on the ground and gets killed pretty easily. Although Jiggly mains can be good enough to avoid being killed so easily. Olimar is pretty good on the ground and has some good match-ups with Top Tier characters. But then he gets destroyed by other characters like Sonic, Pikachu, Little Mac and many more. Toon Link has some good projectiles and with them a good mind game. But he has some laggy attacks and his down air is not good at all. King Dedede has to be one of the best heavyweights in the game. Good pokes, a good spacing game with Gordos, Forward Tilt and he even has some combos. But he gets destroyed by combo characters like Captain Falcon, Sonic, Fox or Falco. Then can reflect the Gordo back to King Dedede and even kill him with that. And he can't survive the entire eternity when he's fighting a combo character. Samus has some favorable match-ups againts Top Tiers and good aerials. Up Air is really good for pursuits in the air, and now she has an improved Up Smash, which helps her nicely. Her projectiles are good but have nasty end lag. She needs more development to be more effective. Bowser back in Smash 3DS was said to be the best character in the game, everyone though that he had some good aerials and an amazing killing power. Part of this is still true. He still has a pretty good killing power and he has one of the best jabs in the game. But his problems are in the air: He can't land in any safe way. His aerials doesn't let him land on the stage properly and he gets killed off the stage pretty easily. Although he can be really good at the ground and at killing. He lacks a good way to protect himself. Donkey Kong also has this problem. But not as bad as Bowser. He also has some good attacks and a really good Back Air. Also his Cargo combos got so much better and now you have to be careful when you battle him. He's still pretty weak on the air though)
C:
(Ganondorf is pretty damn strong and can have a really good control of his personal space. You can't combo him pretty easily thanks to his jab and Forward Tilt, Side B is still good even when it's now teachable on the ground and Down B is good for Shield Punishes. He can also combo Down Throw into Down B. So it's good damage. He has a really really poor recovery though. So he really needs to keep himself on the field. Wii Fit Trainer is entertaining to use and she can be used nicely on a tournament. But the player needs so much time to learn how to use her properly. And even then, she still doesn't reguard you so much. Zelda does have some good aerials like Neutral Air, Forward Air and Back Air when they are sweetspotted. She has some decent ground attacks. But when compared to the rest of the cast... She is pretty bad. But even then she can still be a decent or good character. You just need to put effort into it. Mewtwo has a better chance of being a better character. Because his Neutral Air is even better and if he reads you only once. You can get into really big trouble. Mewtwo has some good moves like Forward Air, Back Air or Up Air. Side B has to be the best reflector in the game. Because it comes out so quick and it can damage the opponent so badly. Mewtwo is actually a read based character. He can be really good when you read your opponent almost perfecly. But his weigh problem is what keeps him from even being a Middle Tier. Palutena also has some good attacks and some decent ones (Up Tilt is a good anti air.) And she can also do some Down Throw combos. Not as good as other characters combos but she does have some. At high percents: Down Throw into Up Air and it kills. And I think it's a true combo. But her other moves just suck really badly. Side and Down Smash are just plain awful and need an speed and range increase. Up Smash is only good for Anti-Air and edgeguards. She does have one of the fastest meteor smashes in the game. And her Specials are also really awful. She only gets good with customs. Robin is a character that can be good but only if they butff his run speed and ground attacks. His aerials are good and he has good specials. But his speed is just so damn bad. And the last one: Little Mac. Advice: NEVER SLEEP ON A LITTLE MAC. Little Mac has to be one of the best ground characters in the game, incredible ground attacks frame data, huge kill power, armor Smash Attacks, Decent Specials and the KO Punch is a game changer. Down Tilt into KO Punch? That is pretty damn good. The problem with Little Mac is that he's the worst in the air. He just can't survive when he's off the stage. He needs his Side B from 3DS days back.
I hope you see my list as possitive. Because I spent a **** ton of time into it
And if you want, discuss with my own list or whatever.
Also Seagull. I seriously apologize. I shouldn't have reacted like that.
Thinkaman
, and I don't see when UAir and DAir stop transitioning to their landing state. What does that signify?
