Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Kirbeh]

Also, also:

YIt just feels like someone making up the rules as they go

Haven't perfected the ideals yet, just add them up as they come to me.

Like what

 

[mynameisBlade]

That's just a different game at that point. Air mobility, the percent/launch system, etc. are integral to what makes Smash, Smash.

Also "I play casually" followed up by "It should be a more competitive 1v1." I feel like you both want a different kind of game altogether but don't even know exactly what it is that you want either.

Oh yeah that is a sure thing. I just enjoy Smash for what it is nowadays. I'm always on the look out for ideas to change up already existing things making them better even if thus far the ideas have just remained written. If you saw what I said about Sakurai how he just makes up rules as he goes, I'm the same way. That should clarify for you. I don't worship any decision he makes like many do. He is human and he makes mistakes even in the final touches like we all do.

Regardless of how much work was put into something, there is always room for improvement. So even if a whole group of people see something as perfectly balanced or perfectly this or that, I gotta be that one skeptic.

 

[Kirbeh]

Oh yeah that is a sure thing. I just enjoy Smash for what it is nowadays. I'm always on the look out for ideas to change up already existing things making them better even if thus far the ideas have just remained written. If you saw what I said about Sakurai how he just makes up rules as he goes, I'm the same way. That should clarify for you. I don't worship any decision he makes like many do. He is human and he makes mistakes even in the final touches like we all do.

Regardless of how much work was put into something, there is always room for improvement. So even if a whole group of people see something as perfectly balanced or perfectly this or that, I gotta be that one skeptic.

No one here is saying Smash or Sakurai is perfect though. Everyone here regularly has criticisms and suggestions for the series. The fandom at large generally does. I feel like you're focusing on a pretty niche vocal minority.

No one takes issue with suggestions for change, the disconnect comes from the fact that some of your proposals are so different that they may as well be their own thing.

And no offense but the way you write just makes you sound kinda pompous.

 

[mynameisBlade]

No one here is saying Smash or Sakurai is perfect though. Everyone here regularly has criticisms and suggestions for the series. The fandom at large generally does. I feel like you're focusing on a pretty niche vocal minority.

No one takes issue with suggestions for change, the disconnect comes from the fact that some of your proposals are so different that they as well be their own thing.

And no offense but the way you write just makes you sound kinda pompous.

I know. Just putting it out there that quite a few people have that opinion. There are plenty of people that def worship his decisions like he can do no wrong. Never said they were here. Just informing if you weren't aware.

Yeah I appreciate the feedback. I was attempting to make my own game actually. It's still in the planning stages, but you are not wrong. These ideas will be their own game eventually.

 

[Kirbeh]

I know. Just putting it out there that quite a few people have that opinion. There are plenty of people that def worship his decisions like he can do no wrong. Never said they were here. Just informing if you weren't aware.

Yeah I appreciate the feedback. I was attempting to make my own game actually. It's still in the planning stages, but you are not wrong. These ideas will be their own game eventually.

Every fandom has actual fanatics but again, they're in the minority.

Best of luck with the game dev though. There's a Platform Fighter General section or the Arts and Creativity section on the boards if you ever decide to make a thread for your project.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Especially since he's 54 and Miyamoto is currently 72 and still not fully retired lol

Oh... make that three games then

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

The spirit stuff definitely heightened discussion at some point but surely there's a reason Porky caught on specifically over some other loosies like Adeleine or Poochy.

It likely has something to do with him being a boss in Brawl, since he's the only one in the franchise completely MIA in Ultimate. It sort of feels like most of the highest Smash speculation is built around what the franchise itself has done. Which I find unfortunate, since absolutely nobody in that missing spirit category ever got redemption.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Every fandom has actual fanatics but again, they're in the minority.

Best of luck with the game dev though. There's a Platform Fighter General section or the Arts and Creativity section on the boards if you ever decide to make a thread for your project.

I appreciate you letting me know! I didn't even know we had a spot for that! What 1st brought me onto Smashboards just so everyone knows is K. Rool being omitted from the roster for so long. I made sure to get on these boards every day back then and join fellow supporters during the Smash 4 ballot and all the way through Ultimate. Seeing him FINALLY get included was great, but it does still kind of sting that he needed a "ballot" to get in..being DK arch enemy and all.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It likely has something to do with him being a boss in Brawl, since he's the only one in the franchise completely MIA in Ultimate. It sort of feels like most of the highest Smash speculation is built around what the franchise itself has done. Which I find unfortunate, since absolutely nobody in that missing spirit category ever got redemption.

He's in the safe capsule of course

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It likely has something to do with him being a boss in Brawl, since he's the only one in the franchise completely MIA in Ultimate. It sort of feels like most of the highest Smash speculation is built around what the franchise itself has done. Which I find unfortunate, since absolutely nobody in that missing spirit category ever got redemption.

I get what you mean but it's also really funny to me in the context of World of Light lol

"No, see, I WANTED this character I love to die horribly and be evaporated by Galeem lasers!"

also does this mean technically Adeleine scales above every character that has a Spirit? lol

 

[DarthEnderX]

He already got that? Look at all those reverse grip sword swings

He has, like, one.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He has, like, one.

Jab
Forward tilt
Up tilt
Forward air
Back air


It's really telling who plays Roy and who hasn't touched him.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's really telling who plays Roy and who hasn't touched him.

He's my most played of the Marths. I couldn't even tell those other moves were reversed.

 

[Zerp]

Oh are we bringing up World of Light's silly spirit shenanigans? In that case I'd like to remind the world that while Yarn Poochy has a spirit, the normal Poochy doesn't have one. One may think Nintendo made an oversight or merely forgot the original Poochy, but there's another reason. See, Poochy cannot be killed by spikes or hurt by Marioverse lava, which must be universal level (it can melt Bowser who tanks a universe-core without melting, my logic is flawless). Poochy also isn't known for being an escape artist either. Therefore we can safely assume Galeem's laser did, in fact, hit Poochy. It just did nothing as Poochy's durability is unfathomable and infinitely greater than your favorite fictional character.

So, remember Porky's absolutely safe capsule that can withstand the destruction of the universe? Galeem turned it into a PNG file. Arceus, the vessel of the literal Pokémon God? Gone, reduced to mere pixels. Poochy? Not a spirit, so obviously this means Poochy was completely and utterly unscathed. With all this in mind, there is only one possible conclusion. Poochy is an all-powerful deity and 100% among the absolute strongest Nintendo characters, totally, definitely. /s

This propaganda is brought to you by the Poochy for Smash association.
​

You guys remember when Porky had a good bit of traction during the ultimate hype cycle? Wonder what happened to that...

I remember, back during K. Rool's reveal they did a little villain montage before showing him off. I think a lot of people started wondering about who they could end up seeing if for whatever reason that montage popped up again. And there was also the immensely silly whole "colored chairs = skull kid is happening" theory on top of that. So it just all kinda snowballed and the community ended up placing a pretty large focus on Nintendo villains. Well, for a while at least. It didn't really last long into the DLC period. I imagine we could see a phenomenon like that again the next time we get a first party villain reveal. Mainly because we tend to have a lot of recency bias in speculation and since we're human, we naturally love looking for possible patterns even when they might not exist.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m pretty over the moon right now for Next Smash I'm ngl. Two of my most wanted, Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa, are in the best positions they’ve ever been in. As long as NG4 and The Dark Ages does pretty good I’d say they’re likely, even.

As long as Snake and Simon come back then pretty much everything else is gravy cause I don’t expect to lose any of my other favorite Vets.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I’m pretty over the moon right now for Next Smash I'm ngl. Two of my most wanted, Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa, are in the best positions they’ve ever been in. As long as NG4 and The Dark Ages does pretty good I’d say they’re likely, even.

As long as Snake and Simon come back then pretty much everything else is gravy cause I don’t expect to lose any of my other favorite Vets.

Hayabusa getting in would be amazing! O.O Good to see you're still here man!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This propaganda is brought to you by the Poochy for Smash association. ​

For some reason this made me think of the Luthor quote from Justice League Unlimited.

"President? Foolish faceless man, my campaign is a farce. A small part of a much grander scheme. President... Do you know how much power I'd have to give up to be President?"

Just replace President with "A fighter" and man with Hand lmao

 

[Kirbeh]

I want to talk for a bit.

Would you all be accepting of a move set rework for her?

The idea I had in mind was for both arms to be tied to Side Special. Tap once for the left arm, tap again to send out the right. Since its Side Special though, you could still send both arms in different directions (and you could still use Smash inputs as well). Using both arms at once is tied to two inputs of the same move rather than occupying several moves across two buttons. This opens up F-Tilt, F-Smash, F-Air and B-Air to getting updated into new moves instead of all being the same thing.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I’m pretty over the moon right now for Next Smash I'm ngl. Two of my most wanted, Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa, are in the best positions they’ve ever been in. As long as NG4 and The Dark Ages does pretty good I’d say they’re likely, even.

As long as Snake and Simon come back then pretty much everything else is gravy cause I don’t expect to lose any of my other favorite Vets.

Heck yeah! Doom Slayer and Hayabusa are two of my most wanteds too. So I'm glad to see both of their series getting new entries if it helps their chances to get in the next Smash game.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I wonder what version of Doomguy Smash would bring in if he was to be included. Recolours or outright new armors would most certainly be made to represent each game, but the base choice would likely be important for his moveset and mannerisms.

Doom Dark Ages has a pretty different (but still raw) take on his design. The shield would make for a good move, but the slower take on the character makes me favor it less.

Doom 2016 and Eternal kinda battle it out then for who would be the modern Slayer variation. 2016 was simpler and kinda went a more serious direction, whereas Eternal went for a much more classic design they added a ton of details and abilities too.

A classic Doomguy modeled from 1&2 would probably be my favorite though. Being the least realistic looking (and thus less violent) of the Doom series, a more classic design might be more at home amid Smashes colorful cast of characters. Aside from the classic guns being used, I think the Unmaker has a chance of replacing the BFG, since it was created for a Nintendo console and fills the same role.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I wonder what version of Doomguy Smash would bring in if he was to be included.

Probably Eternal's. That's the one with all the moves that feel like he's trying to get into Smash.

"Sakurai! I have a double jump and a dash now! Let me in!"

 

[Idon]

I want to talk for a bit.

Would you all be accepting of a move set rework for her?

The idea I had in mind was for both arms to be tied to Side Special. Tap once for the left arm, tap again to send out the right. Since its Side Special though, you could still send both arms in different directions (and you could still use Smash inputs as well). Using both arms at once is tied to two inputs of the same move rather than occupying several moves across two buttons. This opens up F-Tilt, F-Smash, F-Air and B-Air to getting updated into new moves instead of all being the same thing.

Accepting?
That's what I want.

As she is now, she represents ARMS as a series far more than she shows what's unique and different about herself as a character. In practical terms the only thing that makes her Min Min and not any other of the ARMSers is her kicks... the least important part of her moveset.

I wonder what version of Doomguy Smash would bring in if he was to be included. Recolours or outright new armors would most certainly be made to represent each game, but the base choice would likely be important for his moveset and mannerisms.

Doom Dark Ages has a pretty different (but still raw) take on his design. The shield would make for a good move, but the slower take on the character makes me favor it less.

Doom 2016 and Eternal kinda battle it out then for who would be the modern Slayer variation. 2016 was simpler and kinda went a more serious direction, whereas Eternal went for a much more classic design they added a ton of details and abilities too.

A classic Doomguy modeled from 1&2 would probably be my favorite though. Being the least realistic looking (and thus less violent) of the Doom series, a more classic design might be more at home amid Smashes colorful cast of characters. Aside from the classic guns being used, I think the Unmaker has a chance of replacing the BFG, since it was created for a Nintendo console and fills the same role.

I think if we were to go with gameplay design, I would go with Eternal since that is by far the most amount of "stuff" he does while also retaining most of his most iconic weapons. Cosmetically though, you can really go with any and make the other alt costumes.

 

[Perkilator]

I want to talk for a bit.

Would you all be accepting of a move set rework for her?

Oh, definitely.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Never mind

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I remember, back during K. Rool's reveal they did a little villain montage before showing him off. I think a lot of people started wondering about who they could end up seeing if for whatever reason that montage popped up again. And there was also the immensely silly whole "colored chairs = skull kid is happening" theory on top of that. So it just all kinda snowballed and the community ended up placing a pretty large focus on Nintendo villains. Well, for a while at least. It didn't really last long into the DLC period. I imagine we could see a phenomenon like that again the next time we get a first party villain reveal. Mainly because we tend to have a lot of recency bias in speculation and since we're human, we naturally love looking for possible patterns even when they might not exist.

What makes this funnier is that the one time they pulled the villain montage again, it was for Banjo

I want to talk for a bit.

Would you all be accepting of a move set rework for her?

The idea I had in mind was for both arms to be tied to Side Special. Tap once for the left arm, tap again to send out the right. Since its Side Special though, you could still send both arms in different directions (and you could still use Smash inputs as well). Using both arms at once is tied to two inputs of the same move rather than occupying several moves across two buttons. This opens up F-Tilt, F-Smash, F-Air and B-Air to getting updated into new moves instead of all being the same thing.

On one hand or perhaps arm heh, it would make her moveset more traditional and easier to grasp.

On the other hand, this also means her toxic moveset will gain even more options since there will need to be new moves to fill the gaps and I ****ing dread the idea of Min Min mains having more options, especially if they're just like her other non-ARM moves by being at least decent in close quarters.

 

[Mamboo07]

I wonder what version of Doomguy Smash would bring in if he was to be included.

I would go the Wario route, both Eternal outfit and Classic outfit

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I wonder what version of Doomguy Smash would bring in if he was to be included. Recolours or outright new armors would most certainly be made to represent each game, but the base choice would likely be important for his moveset and mannerisms.

Doom Dark Ages has a pretty different (but still raw) take on his design. The shield would make for a good move, but the slower take on the character makes me favor it less.

Doom 2016 and Eternal kinda battle it out then for who would be the modern Slayer variation. 2016 was simpler and kinda went a more serious direction, whereas Eternal went for a much more classic design they added a ton of details and abilities too.

A classic Doomguy modeled from 1&2 would probably be my favorite though. Being the least realistic looking (and thus less violent) of the Doom series, a more classic design might be more at home amid Smashes colorful cast of characters. Aside from the classic guns being used, I think the Unmaker has a chance of replacing the BFG, since it was created for a Nintendo console and fills the same role.

I do think 2016 or Eternal would take the spotlight on things like CSS and the trailer but the old retro outfit would absolutely take half of the alts.

As for the shield, who says he has to actively use it? It could be a regular shield animation and parry like Steve.

 

[Watuna4343]

Something different but, I've been seeing 1 or 2 recent comments regarding the Gematsu Leak and I want to hear what the opinions are about it? Do you guys think it was fake? Or do you think it was real just a very early version of the newcomers that saw the light? Personally, after looking it up, I find it very interesting to say the least as well as the debate around it, I was fascinated. Do I think that the leak was fake or real? I lean mostly towards it being real. The inclusion of the Wii Fit Trainer makes me think that this there was legitimacy behind it, cause I mean, who would've thought about her joining.

I think the one objection that I'd have that I could see the argument about the leak being fake (however, I admit I might be wrong about it) is the absence of Robin, and the certainty of Chrom getting in. When looking at Sakurai's comments (such as those by source gaming) it looks like what was a slam dunk for Smash 4 was a Fire Emblem Awakening rep, not Chrom necessarily because yes while Chrom was considered early on, it looks like Robin was also at least considered early and for the biggest part before development it was Chrom vs. Robin for the spot. What was decided later was the inclusion of Robin instead of Chrom but from Sakurai's comment Chrom was never a shoe-in, especially taking into account again that Robin was in his head a lot as well, so that kind of makes me pause a little bit but then again, it could be that I got something wrong with Robin or that Chrom was considered first and then, at a later stage, the idea of Robin came up.

But overall I think that the characters included in the Gematsu Leak were the first newcomers to be considered for the game (plus maybe Rosalina? given that from what I saw she was already revealed - and very early at that - before the second 'wave' of newcomers came out and couldn't be leaked if she was among them. But idk do we think Rosalina was among the other characters that just 'escaped' the leak?)

 

[Gengar84]

I’m probably wrong but I’ve always been under the assumption that the Gematsu leak was likely fake that just happened to get some lucky guesses that ended up being right so everyone automatically accepted it as real. I never researched it too deeply but that’s my initial assumption of all leaks until I see enough proof otherwise. That leak had enough going against it for me that I never really bought into it.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I’m probably wrong but I’ve always been under the assumption that the Gematsu leak was likely fake that just happened to get some lucky guesses that ended up being right so everyone automatically accepted it as real. I never researched it too deeply but that’s my initial assumption of all leaks until I see enough proof otherwise. That leak had enough going against it for me that I never really bought into it.

If it was fake it was seriously lucky, correctly predicting a good amount of the newcomers. Chrom and rhythm heaven are the only two incorrect ones, but since chrom was discussed in interviews as the original plan before deciding ultimately on Robin and there was cut series data for rhythm heaven in 4's data it still adds a lot of credence that the source had privy to a really early data for smash 4's development.

Good thing I wasn't into speculation at that point, though. If I knew the only character on the list that didn't get in were from my most wanted (at the time) series I wouldve developed a hernia watching them miss ultimate as well.

 

[Perkilator]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Dracula should’ve totally been the boss of Wario’s Classic Mode.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Dracula should’ve totally been the boss of Wario’s Classic Mode.

Yeah, for as much as I like Ult's Classic, there's a few mismatched Classic bosses.

Roy should have gotten Ganon, and Villager should have gotten Marx off the top of my head.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I want to talk for a bit.

Would you all be accepting of a move set rework for her?

The idea I had in mind was for both arms to be tied to Side Special. Tap once for the left arm, tap again to send out the right. Since its Side Special though, you could still send both arms in different directions (and you could still use Smash inputs as well). Using both arms at once is tied to two inputs of the same move rather than occupying several moves across two buttons. This opens up F-Tilt, F-Smash, F-Air and B-Air to getting updated into new moves instead of all being the same thing.

I don't think it's a good idea. People that like Min Min like her the way she is. People that don't like her aren't going to like a revamped moveset for her because she's still going to be a projectileless projectile zoner.

Just reduce her ability to get away with murder with her RamRam, and I think she'll be fine.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah, for as much as I like Ult's Classic, there's a few mismatched Classic bosses.

Roy should have gotten Ganon, and Villager should have gotten Marx off the top of my head.

Meanwhile Ness and Incineroar just needed a change of stage for their final round. Ness should've fought the Hands on Omega Form Onett while Incineroar should've fought the Hands on Omega Form Boxing Ring.

 

[Dinoman96]

Ness and Lucas should have just had Porky as their final boss tbh

Like...it really does just piss me off the dev team decided to bring back one Subspace boss for Ultimate, and rather than someone like Porky or Rayquaza, it's just one of the crappy OCs no one cares about.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I feel like Marx should have been used in more Classic Modes since he only appears 3 times outside of Sephiroth’s classic mode.

 

[Perkilator]

I feel like Marx should have been used in more Classic Modes since he only appears 3 times outside of Sephiroth’s classic mode.

That’s nothing compared to Giga Bowser, who only appears for a whopping two. Really, I think Ultimate needed more bosses in general.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Yeah, for as much as I like Ult's Classic, there's a few mismatched Classic bosses.

Roy should have gotten Ganon, and Villager should have gotten Marx off the top of my head.

Some also have similar classic modes to other characters

Lucina and Byleth have the same theme of fighting other Fire Emblem characters.

Pikachu and Pokemon Trainer have similar Classic Modes. Greninja to a lesser extent.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I want to talk for a bit.

Would you all be accepting of a move set rework for her?

A rework is something that she practically needs. To quote my thoughts on the topic:

Tangentially related to Min Min, but I hope that they revisit the design for an ARMS character in the future. It doesn't have to be Min-Min, and in fact I'd like to see Dr. Coyle as the rep, but my main concern is how literal the translation of an ARMS character was. So much of the moveset just isn't interesting because it's the same punch over and over.

"You control each arm with A and B, like in ARMS!" Okay, cool. I'm not playing ARMS. I'm playing Smash Bros. I'd like it if the long ARM punches were more reserved for specials, (it's weird how she just...doesn't have a side special) and she had more normal attacks to fill in the gaps for stuff like F-tilt, F-air, etc. She has less moves than everyone else right off the bat, and I think lately the Smash team has been a little too literal with their design philosophy in the sense that the character has to play almost 1:1 with their home game.

Making up more moves wouldn't just solve the issue of her kit being boring, but it would add depth to the character and give more potential to make any additional ARMS characters different by better showing off their personalities through different attacks.

 

[Kirbeh]

I don't think it's a good idea. People that like Min Min like her the way she is. People that don't like her aren't going to like a revamped moveset for her because she's still going to be a projectileless projectile zoner.

Just reduce her ability to get away with murder with her RamRam, and I think she'll be fine.

This proposal deliberately leaves everything she can already do intact though. MinMin mains would lose nothing here, instead she gains a few moves to make her more palatable to some of the people that don't like how she currently handles.

These additions don't preclude adjusting her balance either. Like with every new Smash game those are pretty much a given.