Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ninjahmos]

Check out this moveset for Ninten:

I like how, unlike Ness and Lucas, Ninten actually uses his tools more often.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I like how, unlike Ness and Lucas, Ninten actually uses his tools more often.

I mean, he kinda has to. Because Ninten doesn't have PK powers.

 

[BrawlX10]

I think it'd be pretty cool if the next Smash game not only used a cel-shaded graphical style, but also took a Shonen-style approach to its presentation.

I think the artstyle used in MvCI Beyond would be great for Smash 6.
But not gonna lie, peraphs is notalgia but i'd like to see another take on a more gritty/dark artstyle like Brawl, just dont take notes from Jump Force lol.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Isn't Slam Masters canon to SF since Haggar is there and it's a prequel of sorts?

Even then, the Slam Masters characters in SF6 sounds cool, but then i remembered the wrestlers are dead, or very old at best.

Black Widow still fighting as of SFIII iirc

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well the answer is obvious.

Dracula isn't real, ya dummy.

Vlad the Impaler disagrees.

The origin of Count Dracula is from an actual historic figure. He did some crazy **** I recall. Kinda interesting to look that up.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Black Widow still fighting as of SFIII iirc

Street fighter 6 takes place over a decade after 3 so who knows.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Street fighter 6 takes place over a decade after 3 so who knows.

Most of the cast were in their 20s. They should be in their late 40s or in their 50s. It could work but thats on capcom.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mean, even though I don't necessarily believe it, I don't think it would be too ridiculous if a Switch 1 Direct happened. Especially since the Switch 2 will be backwards compatible, so it's not like the Switch 1 will cease support all together.

In fact, in a way, this could be kinda smart. With a Switch 1 Direct out of the way, you can break out the big guns with the Switch 2 Direct more easily (for lack of a better way to put it).

I could see it honestly. These could be games Nintendo was either sitting on for a while, or straight up ports and remakes. It's highly likely the Switch 2 will have its games with higher prices too, so there's a niche market for "budget gaming" for Nintendo here now too, potentially.

The forever rumored remakes of Zelda the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess as well as the ever so assured existence of a Fire Emblem 4 remake would make a lot of sense to be amongst these titles for example. In the case of Fire Emblem, they could continue their "Echoes" branche as started with Shadows of Valentia here further and focus on a mainline release for Switch 2 at the same time. Maybe.

Idk, I see possibilities. If I recall, Sony did the same with PlayStation 4 and 5 right?

Or I hope so myself since I probably won't be able to afford a Switch 2 right away anyway.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Street fighter 6 takes place over a decade after 3 so who knows.

Lol, no it doesn't. Where the hell did you hear that?

Capcom never gives specific years or time periods between games in the SF timeline. The games take place in a specific order(1>Alpha>2>4>5>3>6), but they don't say how much time has passed between each of those games.

Most of the cast were in their 20s. They should be in their late 40s or in their 50s.

They're not, because the SF timeline doesn't work that way. Unlike Fatal Fury.

 

[ninjahmos]

I mean, he kinda has to. Because Ninten doesn't have PK powers.

What about PK Asthma?

 

[BackseatSakurai]

Might be an exaggeration but like, I just don't see how Castlevania's Dracula could ever be a problem solely because Bram Stoker thought of Dracula a century before Konami did, doubly so when his story is now public domain... or that Stoker may have taken notes from the real-life Vlad III for the character.

I get you - I'm not talking legal stuff, I'm moreso just saying it could be slightly odd - maybe it varies culturally, but where I'm from "Dracula" is borderline used colloquially to just refer to any vampire character - most people who don't even know Bram Stoker would just think of Dracula similar to "Frankenstein" where the origin matters less, it's just a recurring character that's so prominent regardless of depiction that people just meld it into one broad thing. Of course we know it's specifically the Konami one - just could see it being a dissuading factor for a full-fledged fighter.

The best similar example I can think of (though this has way more obvious baggage) is "Satan" - even Puyo Puyo has a "Satan" character, but despite him not even being a red little man or any common depiction (clearly an original character) I'd assume for a spirit or trophy or whatever they'd just call him "Dark Prince" like in many Western localizations to avoid any confusion.

It's an interesting / weird area, Goemon is also based on Ishikawa Goemon (real person), there's Jack Frost from SMT, I guess there's a variety of places where this could be some kind of minor conflict - Dracula to me just feels so culturally complicated in terms of being just like - a general-use Halloween monster. But who knows, it's complicated.

 

[BrawlX10]

Hey, here are a few more item ideas. I've tried to make them a bit more unconventional:

Xaldin's Spear (Kingdom Hearts): When you pick up this item, four of Xaldin's spears will float around your fighter. Pressing the attack buttons will cause the spears to attack as well. Wonder if you could pull off some sick combos with it, lol?

Lorelei's Harp (Dragon Quest): Upon obtaining this item, your character becomes surrounded by a protective water bubble that shields against attacks. If an opponent pops the bubble while nearby, they will take damage. It's best to use projectiles.

Beans (Animal Crossing): Picking up this item equips your character with a small bean box. Press the attack button to scatter a few beans nearby, dealing damage to opponents. It's not very strong, though.

Ultima Weapon (Final Fantasy VII): When you pick up this item, your fighter equips the Ultima Weapon sword. This powerful item becomes stronger as your damage percentage is lower (similar to a reverse Rage Blaster). It also offers three different charged ranged attacks—Fire, Blizzard, or Thunder—with the equipped materia being random.

Oran Berry (Pokémon): Upon picking up this item, it disappears from your character's model. However, if your damage percentage exceeds 100%, you will be healed by 40% instantly.

Life Orb (Pokémon): When you pick up this item, it attaches to your character's neck. While equipped, your attacks gain increased power, but you will also receive recoil damage from them until the effects wear off.

Pile Driver (Mega Man): This item is inspired by the power-up from Mega Man 11. Picking it up equips your character with a Pile Driver. Using the item propels you forward at high speed, dealing damage, similar to the Mii Swordfighter's special move.

Pink Wisp (Sonic): This item appears in a wisp capsule. Upon collection, your fighter transforms into a pink spike ball, allowing you to roll around and damage opponents. You can also perform a small jump. The spike ball attaches to surfaces, making it great for edge-guarding.

Herb Lollipop (Bayonetta): Essentially a non-throwable version of the healing sprout.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Beans (Animal Crossing): Picking up this item equips your character with a small bean box. Press the attack button to scatter a few beans nearby, dealing damage to opponents. It's not very strong, though.

If Wario eats them with Chomp, Waft gets fully charged.

 

[ninjahmos]

Here's an item idea that I've suggested here before:

Chaos Emeralds (Sonic): These items appear frequently. Every time you collect one of them, you hear this sound effect. Once you collect all seven of them, you become a more powerful version of yourself, like Super Sonic.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’d like to gather here today to remind everyone that Death Stranding is owned wholly by Kojima Productions which means, no matter how slim, Sam Porter Bridges does have the chance of appearing in smash bros come next go around.

Right next to Kojima’s other Magnum Opus.

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

On the subject of items, how many series-specific Summoning items can fit in Smash? We've had Pokeballs since 64, but with how many games are represented, the Assist Trophy moniker might be too slim at this point.

I've read somewhere about a Fire Emblem-based Assist Summon item, but I think Donkey Kong's barrels or, ironically enough, Eggman's Capsules from Sonic, might be good ways to increase representation as well.

I'd like to hear as many suggestions as possible, even for series without a fighter in the game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’d like to gather here today to remind everyone that Death Stranding is owned wholly by Kojima Productions which means, no matter how slim, Sam Porter Bridges does have the chance of appearing in smash bros come next go around.

Right next to Kojima’s other Magnum Opus.

He's an assist trophy that summons a ladder that falls forward and can be used as a bridge between or an extension of platforms. It also bonks people on the head if they stand beneath it while it falls.

I don't actually know a whole lot about Death Stranding so I'm mostly joking.

 

[Diddy Kong]

On the subject of items, how many series-specific Summoning items can fit in Smash? We've had Pokeballs since 64, but with how many games are represented, the Assist Trophy moniker might be too slim at this point.

I've read somewhere about a Fire Emblem-based Assist Summon item, but I think Donkey Kong's barrels or, ironically enough, Eggman's Capsules from Sonic, might be good ways to increase representation as well.

I'd like to hear as many suggestions as possible, even for series without a fighter in the game.

The Animal Buddies in crates from Donkey Kong Country. That's one idea. However, most would just settle for Rambi as a rideable Assist Trophy. If it works it works. Rambi is also one of the only consistent Animal Buddies being used, so to have a whole item just for him wouldn't be necessary exactly.

The DK Barrels is an idea perhaps but that would mean that Dixie, Cranky and Funky wouldn't be playable. Even having one of them playable would invalidate this item. That's the only reason I wouldn't want it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd like to hear as many suggestions as possible, even for series without a fighter in the game.

One I'd like to see is "Boss Trophies".

We already know Bosses can be ATs thanks to Rathalos, so I think it would be cool if any Boss could be summoned by a Boss Trophy item. Like the way the Pokeball item has Master Balls that summon Legendaries.

 

[SPEN18]

On the subject of items, how many series-specific Summoning items can fit in Smash? We've had Pokeballs since 64, but with how many games are represented, the Assist Trophy moniker might be too slim at this point.

I've read somewhere about a Fire Emblem-based Assist Summon item, but I think Donkey Kong's barrels or, ironically enough, Eggman's Capsules from Sonic, might be good ways to increase representation as well.

I'd like to hear as many suggestions as possible, even for series without a fighter in the game.

I like the idea, particularly for a series like FE that has a lot of popular characters that realistically can't all be playable, but this kind of thing is pretty resource-intensive to make/implement all the models/animations for a large enough quantity of characters. So I don't think it's likely to expand beyond Pokeballs when it comes to a series-specific thing, which is already a lot but Pokemon is a mega-franchise that makes the investment easier to justify. If it's not for a huge quantity of characters then may as well just keep it part of the AT pool.

 

[BrawlX10]

On the subject of items, how many series-specific Summoning items can fit in Smash? We've had Pokeballs since 64, but with how many games are represented, the Assist Trophy moniker might be too slim at this point.

I've read somewhere about a Fire Emblem-based Assist Summon item, but I think Donkey Kong's barrels or, ironically enough, Eggman's Capsules from Sonic, might be good ways to increase representation as well.

I'd like to hear as many suggestions as possible, even for series without a fighter in the game.

Honestly, I think Assist Trophies and Poké Balls are sufficient. Pokémon are clearly an exception, and it makes sense to have them represented that way. However, I don't believe other series currently represented need their own Assist Trophy or Poké Ball-style items. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 might be an exception; I could see the Core Crystal from Xenoblade 2 functioning as an Assist Trophy-like item, summoning from a pool of 4 Blades from the game, nothing too crazy. But that's mainly because Blades, like Pokémon, might work better as their own thing, similar to Poké Balls. In contrast, items like the Fire Emblem Summon seem unnecessary to me, even if they're cool on paper.


On another note, one of the mysteries of the next game for me like i stated previously is the collectibles, will we get trophies back? will spirits somehow return? or will we get something else like SmashCards?

 

[BackseatSakurai]

On another note, one of the mysteries of the next game for me like i stated previously is the collectibles, will we get trophies back? will spirits somehow return? or will we get something else like SmashCards?

Always hoping for trophies but always thought the idea of doing collectible Hanafuda cards with unique 2D art inspired by Nintendo stuff throughout the ages would be super cool. If we stretched the idea of cards (whether Hanafuda or just trading card style cards) to an unrealistic extreme, imagine a side mode to play with your deck - the cards having corresponding perks in the card game appropriate for the character / item / whatever. Maybe as a way to gamble for more coins or whatever? Trophies would be enough, but could be cool

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Here's an item idea that I've suggested here before:

Chaos Emeralds (Sonic): These items appear frequently. Every time you collect one of them, you hear this sound effect. Once you collect all seven of them, you become a more powerful version of yourself, like Super Sonic.

Meh. Having to collect all seven sounds like a giant commitment in comparison to items that could give you an equally practical reward (Smashball, Dragoon, Daybreak, Super Mushroom+Starman)

 

[Perkilator]

On the subject of items, how many series-specific Summoning items can fit in Smash? We've had Pokeballs since 64, but with how many games are represented, the Assist Trophy moniker might be too slim at this point.

Personally, I’m fine with just the Poké Balls and AT’s. Adding even more summoning items just feels like it’d take up way too much dev time. Even a franchise as big as Smash should never fall into feature creep with things like this.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Yeah, I can't read lmao

But still, it's true. Just because he's based on a non-gaming character doesn't mean he is one.

What's next? Cutting Mario and DK because the original Donkey Kong started off as a Popeye game and thus is inspired by non-gaming media?

Might be an exaggeration but like, I just don't see how Castlevania's Dracula could ever be a problem solely because Bram Stoker thought of Dracula a century before Konami did, doubly so when his story is now public domain... or that Stoker may have taken notes from the real-life Vlad III for the character.

Also the fact that he is a boss in the game so there isn’t any issues by Sakurai to include the character.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Lol, no it doesn't. Where the hell did you hear that?

Capcom never gives specific years or time periods between games in the SF timeline. The games take place in a specific order(1>Alpha>2>4>5>3>6), but they don't say how much time has passed between each of those games.

They're not, because the SF timeline doesn't work that way. Unlike Fatal Fury.

Ken and Chun li's kids were little in 3 and teenagers in 6.

The math just adds up there.

 

[Pupp135]

On another note, one of the mysteries of the next game for me like i stated previously is the collectibles, will we get trophies back? will spirits somehow return? or will we get something else like SmashCards?

While trophies were a cool collectable pre-Ultimate, I’m leaning towards spirits returning next game for two reasons:

• They’re less resource intensive than trophies
• They allow characters to get a bonus within matches, which can also add to the chaos in matches

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of items, I wish the fire bar was an item you threw in a spot and it rotated around like it does in the games. It was always weird to me they made it into a sword. Interesting and creative but weird.

For new items, I think the portal gun from Portal would be an awesome item. It could create warp points similar to the Stage Builder part. If Chel made it into Smash, it could also be a part of her moveset. I had a similar idea for my Magus moveset.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Arguing about dracula as a edge case is kinda weird to me when the "castlevania take on the dracula mythos" is clearly it's own thing without any input from the original author. It's not a direct adaption of dracula as much as it's remixing and translating the ideas into something distinct, as well as something that is first and foremost the world of a video game. Far different from Goku or Mickey mouse where even a video game project with them in it that has a lot of passion and ingenuity there is still ultimately made to further the reach of a brand that everyone can tell did not start off as a game.

But that comparison does make me wonder since that opens up a keyblade-shaped can of worms: if licensing money wasn't a problem do you think Mickey Donald and goofy would've shown up in sora's dlc? Like sure it can all be written off as their KH versions and since KH is such a weird case where it's clearly a video game thing but it has Disney crossover stuff as a crucial element of its hook...

Idk, I feel like the Mickey keychain existing in smash at all is a hole in the dam that could grow over time. All it takes is one mii costume for like, the Witcher or something like that and things just kinda slide closer to smash eventually going something like "ok but the Capcom marvel fighting game lineage has been so influential on fighting games to the point that squad strike exists; we can probably put Spider-Man in".

I could also talk about geraldo witcherino being an edge case, but as much as the game overshadows the books at this point... You could say there's a similar situation for LOTR and like... That's clearly a book that was adapted into a movie.

 

[Gengar84]

Arguing about dracula as a edge case is kinda weird to me when the "castlevania take on the dracula mythos" is clearly it's own thing without any input from the original author. It's not a direct adaption of dracula as much as it's remixing and translating the ideas into something distinct, as well as something that is first and foremost the world of a video game. Far different from Goku or Mickey mouse where even a video game project with them in it that has a lot of passion and ingenuity there is still ultimately made to further the reach of a brand that everyone can tell did not start off as a game.

But that comparison does make me wonder since that opens up a keyblade-shaped can of worms: if licensing money wasn't a problem do you think Mickey Donald and goofy would've shown up in sora's dlc? Like sure it can all be written off as their KH versions and since KH is such a weird case where it's clearly a video game thing but it has Disney crossover stuff as a crucial element of its hook...

Idk, I feel like the Mickey keychain existing in smash at all is a hole in the dam that could grow over time. All it takes is one mii costume for like, the Witcher or something like that and things just kinda slide closer to smash eventually going something like "ok but the Capcom marvel fighting game lineage has been so influential on fighting games to the point that squad strike exists; we can probably put Spider-Man in".

I could also talk about geraldo witcherino being an edge case, but as much as the game overshadows the books at this point... You could say there's a similar situation for LOTR and like... That's clearly a book that was adapted into a movie.

I know I’m in the extreme minority but I think Spider-Man or other “fourth party” guest fighters in Smash are significantly less weird than Mercedes-Benz in Mario Kart or Hello Kitty and Baby Metal in Mario Maker. At least Smash is already a crossover fighting game and fighting games have a precedent of guest fighters from outside media. There are people that legitimately want Goku in Smash. Mario Kart and Mario Maker’s cases just feel very out of place and are just weird advertisement no one was asking for. Not saying that’s what should happen, just a thought.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Castlevania did actually incorporate more of Bram Stoker's lore into its official story... later on. So it's not nearly as "its own thing" as being said. It's still its own thing, clearly, but it doesn't remix it that much either.

That said, yeah, he's a video game character based upon a book's concepts. They just took more of the book details later on and all.

This is not analogous to someone who is deliberately an adaption of a book(The Witcher is a good example of this). They are completely different situations.

...That said, the Mickey Keychain doesn't mean anything. They also mentioned one of the Mickey games during Brawl's Chronicles. Basically, minor references are fine because it's not hard to license usage of it. It also at most is slightly bordering on it at best, which doesn't break it in any way. Like, if we had Spirits, Taunts, or whatever? Yeah, that'd be different. We even have cases where references to external material(Pokemon Anime) get made too, which again, is fine because it's a video game series. To me, I wouldn't say much really changed with the references in this paragraph. The things only showed up because they were video game-related.

Even if somehow we did get Disney stuff via Sora more directly, it'd be their specific KH designs(who actually are video game-related enough to justify the idea. It's still a lot to license on the other hand, cause it's both Disney and Square-Enix overall they need to talk to. And let's be real, some characters are much bigger and more costly. KH OC's are not. Mickey? Yeah. I'm aware he's in the public domain now, but that doesn't mean all versions of him are free to use either. Disney has their own copyrighted variations of him they currently use in games who don't fall under public use by definition).

So yeah, I really don't think anything overall changed. Maybe slightly bent more. We might be lucky to get a related Spirit or something, and that's still a big ole' stretch. At least first party characters that originated in one of the animations are still easily able to appear in some fashion(though I don't think they will unless they actually were in another video game first. You can't really call it a gaming character if they never appeared in one. Even in the most vague possible way, here. R.O.B. actually had video game appearances before being playable, after all).

 

[BuckleyTim]

That makes me realize that I can't really name any references to pre-video-games Nintendo in Smash. I guess the restraint to not include stuff like the ultra hand as like an item says a lot.

 

[ninjahmos]

That makes me realize that I can't really name any references to pre-video-games Nintendo in Smash. I guess the restraint to not include stuff like the ultra hand as like an item says a lot.

I kinda wish they'd include the Hanafuda cards, at least as Spirits.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I kinda wish they'd include the Hanafuda cards, at least as Spirits.

Daitoryo should be a character.

 

[Gengar84]

I may be mistaken here so please correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t GoldenEye the first non-Nintendo owned IP to get any content in Smash? If I remember right, the proximity mine in Smash 64 was from GoldenEye and it was changed to Perfect Dark’s design in Melee. So not only would that mean we got “fourth party” content in Smash before more traditional third party content, but both cases were games from RARE, making them the first outside developer to get any content in Smash. It’s not much but it’s something that could slightly strengthen the case of seeing more RARE content down the line. It would be cool to see Joanna Dark since PD was the first third party (originating from video games) to get anything in Smash.

Funnily enough, this also means that Smash would have had “fourth party” content well before other fighting games like Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur, Tekken and King of Fighters. Not that necessarily means anything, just a fun bit of trivia.

 

[Oracle Link]

Someone: 4th partys cant be in Smash!
Me: You know what if sakurai told me thats why he wont add Videospiel-Man i completly agree!
Dude is literally me Sorta!
Now what about a character only slightly influenced by me?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I may be mistaken here so please correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t GoldenEye the first non-Nintendo owned IP to get any content in Smash? If I remember right, the proximity mine in Smash 64 was from GoldenEye and it was changed to Perfect Dark’s design in Melee. So not only would that mean we got “fourth party” content in Smash before more traditional third party content, but both cases were games from RARE, making them the first outside developer to get any content in Smash. It’s not much but it’s something that could slightly strengthen the case of seeing more RARE content down the line. It would be cool to see Joanna Dark since PD was the first third party (originating from video games) to get anything in Smash.

Funnily enough, this also means that Smash would have had “fourth party” content well before other fighting games like Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur, Tekken and King of Fighters. Not that necessarily means anything, just a fun bit of trivia.

Best part is the Proximity Mine as well as the other ones were not made for the game, but actually part of the movies first. So we have had actual movie content in before.

That said, it was phased out pretty quickly. Melee somewhat did(only in one version with the Perfect Dark design), but come Brawl, the only GoldenEye stuff was... a mention in the Chronicle. RARE probably had full rights to use all the weapons at any point, and was already currently with Nintendo, so it wasn't hard to license out the usage of it at the time. Melee showed it was more complicated, and Brawl made sense when RARE left Nintendo entirely.

Anyway, PD is a pretty viable option if we want to go with the similar route that GoldenEye started(that is, it's clearly a sister game to GoldenEye 007 respectively). We could even have two Mines, the Smash Bros. one, and the Perfect Dark one. How one shows up over the other could be done many ways. It could be when using the PD stage or just any realistic/technological-enough stage(like anything out of Metal Gear or Star Fox). We've had stuff like Crates and Barrels change before in a similar way, so~

 

[Gengar84]

Here’s a fun hypothetical question I wonder to myself sometimes: If RARE had been acquired by Nintendo rather than Microsoft back in the day like they were hoping for, how many characters do you think they would have in Smash right now? I feel like we’d at least have Banjo, Rash, Joanna Dark, Fulgore and Conker by now. Maybe even all of them as early as Brawl. RARE’s games were among the most beloved and iconic games on the SNES and N64. It’s wild to think about how different Smash could have looked.

 

[fogbadge]

Here’s a fun hypothetical question I wonder to myself sometimes: If RARE had been acquired by Nintendo rather than Microsoft back in the day like they were hoping for, how many characters do you think they would have in Smash right now? I feel like we’d at least have Banjo, Rash, Joanna Dark, Fulgore and Conker by now. Maybe even all of them as early as Brawl. RARE’s games were among the most beloved and iconic games on the SNES and N64. It’s wild to think about how different Smash could have looked.

well I’ve often wondered if we would have Grunty as well as B&K at this point. and I imagine that we’d also be complaining that Mumbo Jumbo is stuck as an AT

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That makes me realize that I can't really name any references to pre-video-games Nintendo in Smash. I guess the restraint to not include stuff like the ultra hand as like an item says a lot.

Ultra Hand would be such a cool item too.

Now everyone can have Min Min's range