Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Curious Villager]

I'm starting to think that a port would upset me more than make me hype. I don't really want to buy this game 3 times, and 2-3 characters isn't enough IMO.

I'll entertain the idea of a port until E3. if it doesn't get announced by then, I'm just going to assume that we're getting a brand new game instead at a later date.

Being honest, the idea of a port doesn't excite me much either...

 

[UserKev]

I'll entertain the idea of a port until E3. if it doesn't get announced by then, I'm just going to assume that we're getting a brand new game instead at a later date.

Being honest, the idea of a port doesn't excite me much either...

A port feels desperate. I don't exactly want it either. Smash 4 is massively disappointing. I just want to get completely away from it. A port may come with new characters but modes matter, to.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I'm starting to think that a port would upset me more than make me hype. I don't really want to buy this game 3 times, and 2-3 characters isn't enough IMO.

It'll probably be a "deluxe" version, like MK8 Deluxe, with new content and tweaked mechanics. Hard to say if it'll be a true sequel or not. Maybe an updated version.

 

[Deleted member]

I often see Ashley being mentioned as a potential second Wario rep.

My question to those who are familiar to the Wario Ware series is the following:
Why exactly?
Does she have something that distinguishes her from the rest of the Wario Ware cast besides her popularity?

 

[PsychoJosh]

I often see Ashley being mentioned as a potential second Wario rep.

My question to those who are familiar to the Wario Ware series is the following:
Why exactly?
Does she have something that distinguishes her from the rest of the Wario Ware cast besides her popularity?

Ashley is very popular. Most people think she's very cute and that's pretty much the only reason they want her in. She sort of skyrocketed up as the most popular Warioware character because of... err... well, some people are just really into lolis. But mostly they find her personality and antics endearing. Moveset-wise, they believe Ashley has potential because she's a witch who does a lot of magic. She has a little red demon companion named red who can shapeshift into various things, and she also has a spellbook that allows her to cast various types of spells, like making giant carnivorous plants. So if she got in the game they picture her being a lightweight combination of Robin and Rosalina.

Personally, I don't like Ashley as the rep for this game. I think if anyone perfectly captures the supremely bizarre humor of the Warioware series, it's Mona. I want to attack people with oversized food items, her scooter bike, and spicy pizza slices.

Maybe we should form factions based on which Warioware girl we support...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am I selfish if I don't mind a port cause I never owned a Wii U or 3DS? Cause I wouldn't mind a port because of exactly that. In fact, it makes me feel a 1000 times better about never buying them.

 

[Opossum]

Am I selfish if I don't mind a port cause I never owned a Wii U or 3DS? Cause I wouldn't mind a port because of exactly that. In fact, it makes me feel a 1000 times better about never buying them.

Nah, that's not selfish. The one reason I'm getting Mario Kart 8 Deluxe when I get a Switch is because I never bought the original for Wii U.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nah, that's not selfish. The one reason I'm getting Mario Kart 8 Deluxe when I get a Switch is because I never bought the original for Wii U.

To be frank, I never thought of Mario Kart 8 as a great game honestly. There's just something wrong with how the game feels. It's not like Wii or Double Dash...

 

[PsychoJosh]

I personally wouldn't mind a "port", because in reality it's not going to just be a straight port. If it is the same game it will at least have new characters and content.

But I think Nintendo recognizes the significance of Smash every time it releases. They're probably going to be making a new game but still keep all the characters from the last one.

 

[UserKev]

To be frank, I never thought of Mario Kart 8 as a great game honestly. There's just something wrong with how the game feels. It's not like Wii or Double Dash...

I feel like this also for Smash. Not only the Mario Kart series. Its one of those "Transitions gone wrong" type of thing.

I miss the Super Nintendo to Gamecube era of the company when it felt traditional. Nintendo is turning into a gimmick.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

To be frank, I never thought of Mario Kart 8 as a great game honestly. There's just something wrong with how the game feels. It's not like Wii or Double Dash...

There's a problem with the modern Mario Karts I have in that they made the Karts a free for all and with it, lost a lot of charm.

In Double Dash and DS all the characters had one or two unique karts that had a lot of personality but without the restriction of having to make Karts match up to characters, they seem to have become more generic. Probably just me though.

 

[Deleted member]

To be frank, I never thought of Mario Kart 8 as a great game honestly. There's just something wrong with how the game feels. It's not like Wii or Double Dash...

I feel like this also for Smash. Not only the Mario Kart series. Its one of those "Transitions gone wrong" type of thing.

I miss the Super Nintendo to Gamecube era of the company when it felt traditional. Nintendo is turning into a gimmick.

Or, it's just you and your preferences.

 

[UserKev]

Or, it's just you and your preferences.

Amiibos should have never became a thing and you know this.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Let's think about this.

Arguments for an SSB4 port:

-They still haven't released the final SSB4 amiibo which are based on the SSB4 renders.
-DLC characters haven't been out THAT long and are still keeping the game very fresh.
-It would be easier to port the game since it's still fresh in everyone's minds.
-Releasing a new game would cannibalize the current one which is still being sold in stores.
-It's still too early to release a Smash game; SSB4 is only 3 years old whereas Brawl was 6 at the time SSB4 released.
-Sakurai needs a rest.

Arguments for a new game:

-It's an entirely new system, and tradition necessitates a new Smash game.
-New Smash games are significant events in the eye of the gaming public.
-SSB4 is already getting stale.
-It cannot be confused for recycling old content if everything is new.
-Tired or not, Sakurai knew what he was signing up for when he decided to be a game developer.

 

[Opossum]

Amiibos should have never became a thing and you know this.

Nah, I'm glad they're a thing.

 

[Luminario]

I often see Ashley being mentioned as a potential second Wario rep.

My question to those who are familiar to the Wario Ware series is the following:
Why exactly?
Does she have something that distinguishes her from the rest of the Wario Ware cast besides her popularity?

Besides what PsychoJosh said, her AT attack shows us she could be the first debuffing character in Smash. Also we need more magic in general, but that's just how I feel. She doesn't really represent WarioWare as a series that well, but shes got great moveset potential

Also MK8 is fine, it's just rather tame and streamlined compared to previous ones.

 

[Deleted member]

Amiibos should have never became a thing and you know this.

Amiibos by themselves aren't a problem.

It's their abusive use as keys to unlock on-disc content which is the true problem.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

-Tired or not, Sakurai knew what he was signing up for when he decided to be a game developer.

Having the most prominent character that shares your profession be Wario?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Double Dash's controls are clunky, but the maps remain one of the best with much more "daring" shortcuts than MK8's handholding.

Amiibos by themselves aren't a problem.

It's their abusive use as keys to unlock on-disc content which is the true problem.

Eeh, if they're gonna sell them as figurines with functionality, I don't think it's a sin to give actual functionality.
Ethics of the principle aside, no content aside from Wolf Link has been so unique that it gets into paywall territory.
A lot of the "content" is random dropping of items already in the source game and the actual paywalling ones are in the minority. (And even then it's something as minor as a costume)
Yes, you can cry about how the principle at hand is a business malpractice but in reality it's a costume at best.

(Aside from Wolf Link. **** what they did with Wolf Link)

 

[Diddy Kong]

I feel like this also for Smash. Not only the Mario Kart series. Its one of those "Transitions gone wrong" type of thing.

I miss the Super Nintendo to Gamecube era of the company when it felt traditional. Nintendo is turning into a gimmick.

Super Nintendo to GameCube era? This man got taste... Wii was also quite good, but it was the start of the domination of the gimmicks.

I mean, Nintendo also would cash out a lot if they'd just produce more games like Mario Galaxy, Donkey Kong Country Returns and Metroid Prime. Why only focus on the easy stuff? They knew very well that fans where gonna suck up those games, why would they only release watered down New Super Mario Bros. stuff and similar half hearted games?

Also, I think that Sakurai might not even be the main director if Smash Switch is gonna be a port.

 

[Curious Villager]

amiibo is basically a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of deal.

People who don't have them complain that they are a paywall and have too much functionality, whereas those who do buy them complain that they are underwhelming and don't have good enough functionality.

Guess Nintendo kind of backed themselves into a corner with that. Perhaps if they had more functionality like how they where implemented in Smash in more games might have been a good compromise for both sides...

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Wasn't like, ALL of Amiibo Festival unlocked by Amiibos?

That takes me back. Interesting characters that never get mentioned these days but were big in the post-melee era-

• Captain Syrup- Before Wario was a game designer and could at least be bothered to leave the house.
• Rick the Hamster- He was basically Kirby's Yoshi. But everything not made by Sakurai is basically non-canon to Smash Kirby.
• Blaziken and Scizor- They were the popular choices for "cool" Pokemon before Lucario (and blind Gen 1 worship) came along.
• Any F-Zero Racer- We had this idea that all the existing series would be expanded as item went on... Really lucked out there with Lucas, Earthbound.
• Chibi-Robo- He seemed like such a lock. Until they started slapping him on any old rubbish.

Very odd though, that the Black Knight is there but Ike isn't.

I used to be real gung-ho on adding Captain Syrup, before I realized.. Just give Wario a real moveset, based on Wario Land, and then throw in a Wario Ware character.

I'm also puzzled by the lack of Ike.. At first, I thought it be pre-POR cause of all the GBA FE characters, but then I saw Black Knight. I think these were submitted by people all over the internet, that would explain the ****ing bizarre characters.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Wasn't like, ALL of Amiibo Festival unlocked by Amiibos?


I used to be real gung-ho on adding Captain Syrup, before I realized.. Just give Wario a real moveset, based on Wario Land, and then throw in a Wario Ware character.

My sentiments exactly. Captain Syrup, as much as I like her, is just trophy material at the very most.

And in regards to a new F-Zero character, I think Samurai Goroh could fill that spot. Captain Falcon's moveset was completely made up for Smash 64. I can picture Goroh having a lot of moves with his samurai sword based on water and dragons.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Nah, I'm glad they're a thing.

Personally I think that the user you were addressing there is just looking for excuses to call Smash 4 a bad game because he doesn't actually have legitimate reasons the game is "bad".

 

[Opossum]

On the amiibo thing, I still think Intelligent Systems is the best developer when it comes to amiibo usage. The content they give is substantial, yet non-essential. The perfect mix, IMO.

Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. - Allows the player to recruit Marth, Ike, Robin, and Lucina and use them in battle. Non-essential in the sense that basically all their special moves are reskins of moves already in the game, and that they aren't part of the plot. Substantial because they're new units with a neat permadeath gimmick and also give new music. They also wouldn't have been in if not for the amiibo because there was no reason otherwise for Fire Emblem characters to even show up.

Fire Emblem Fates (Birthright, Conquest, Revelation) - Allows the player to permanently recruit Marth, Ike, Robin, and Lucina. Non-essential in the sense that the game has TONS of other units to use, and the storyline isn't changed whether or not they're present. Substantial in that they're four of the most popular characters in the series as usable units, each with their own signature weapon (Falchion, Ragnell, Thoron, Parallel Falchion). Considering Fire Emblem doesn't re-use characters in this way, the amiibo are the only reason they show up.

Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia - Allows the player to summon one-turn illusions of Marth, Ike, Robin, Lucina, Roy, Corrin (male), Corrin (female), Alm, and Celica. While a bit more shallow than in Fates, this is likely due to the fact that adding that many new units to a remake without changing much else could disrupt game balance (for reference, Alm and Celica's paths only added one new character each). Non-essential because they're one-turn phantoms that just help players out of tough spots.Theyre only there because of the amiibo. The Alm and Celica amiibo also unlock one special dungeon each, which is the closest thing to something substantial behind disc locked content, but the content of the dungeons is pretty non-essential, and nothing compared to, say, Wolf Link in Breath of the Wild.

They're easily the developer that gives amiibo owners the most bang for their buck while also not punishing those who don't have any Fire Emblem amiibo. Stock was an issue, but it's definitely better now for the most part.

 

[Deleted member]

I can picture Goroh having a lot of moves with his samurai sword based on water and dragons.

>Pilots the "Fire Stingray"
>Moves themed after water and dragons.


Seems legit.

 

[PsychoJosh]

>Pilots the "Fire Stingray"
>Moves themed after water and dragons.


Seems legit.

Captain Falcon pilots the "Blue Falcon" and his attacks are themed after fire.

When you picture fire, does it instantly bring to mind birds, or the color blue? No? Okay then.

 

[N3ON]

Blaziken and Scizor- They were the popular choices for "cool" Pokemon before Lucario (and blind Gen 1 worship) came along.

What are you talking about? I think you've got the blinders on if you don't understand why Gen 1 gets the most attention...

Am I selfish if I don't mind a port cause I never owned a Wii U or 3DS? Cause I wouldn't mind a port because of exactly that. In fact, it makes me feel a 1000 times better about never buying them.

I mean that's part of the very reason these ports are being made. Don't trouble yourself over it~

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What characters are currently "trapped" by game-play roles that would be free to join the main roster in a brand new smash? I'll start a list and shout out any I miss.

* Toad: Give Peach a useful neutral
* Waluigi: Are Mario Bros vs Wario Bros fights too much to ask for?
* Lyn: as many FE characters as there are, you were the West's Marth. The first Lord.
* Ashley: Who's the girl next door, livig in the trophy?
* Dark Samus: Maybe if Japan didn't just toss away Prime because "REEEEE Western!"
* Ridley: ... a man can dream though... a man can dream...

 

[Schnee117]

Captain Falcon pilots the "Blue Falcon" and his attacks are themed after fire.

And three of them are explicitly named "Falcon Punch", "Falcon Dive" and "Falcon Kick"
Raptor Boost sticks to the Falcon theme because Falcons are Birds of Prey and Raptor is another word for that.

fire
the color blue?

I mean they can always change his flames so they're blue like they changed Ike's flames though I don't see that happening because they'd have done that when they did the change for Ike.

 

[FalKoopa]

I used to be real gung-ho on adding Captain Syrup, before I realized.. Just give Wario a real moveset, based on Wario Land, and then throw in a Wario Ware character.

I mean, I can work the opposite way too, although substantially more unlikely/

Let Wario have a Warioware moveset and throw in Captain Syrup.

 

[Kirbeh]

I mean, I can work the opposite way too, although substantially more unlikely/

Let Wario have a Warioware moveset and throw in Captain Syrup.

Unrelated, but curiosity got the better of me and I ended up watching Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid due to your icon.

Back on topic; If possible I'd like to see three Wario reps consisting of Wario (with his dash attack changed to his Wario Land one to have at least that if nothing else), Syrup and someone from WarioWare. That's pretty much a pipe dream though given that Wario Land seems to be for the most part forgotten by Nintendo.

I just wish they'd continue both series instead of relegating Wario to just being the microgame guy. I see it in more or less the same way I see Paper Mario turning into a general adventure game because apparently we can't have two Mario RPG series.

 

[Deleted member]

And three of them are explicitly named "Falcon Punch", "Falcon Dive" and "Falcon Kick"
Raptor Boost sticks to the Falcon theme because Falcons are Birds of Prey and Raptor is another word for that.

Not only that, but Raptor Boost is "Falcon Knuckle" in Japan.

 

[Megadoomer]

What characters are currently "trapped" by game-play roles that would be free to join the main roster in a brand new smash? I'll start a list and shout out any I miss.

* Toad: Give Peach a useful neutral
* Waluigi: Are Mario Bros vs Wario Bros fights too much to ask for?
* Lyn: as many FE characters as there are, you were the West's Marth. The first Lord.
* Ashley: Who's the girl next door, livig in the trophy?
* Dark Samus: Maybe if Japan didn't just toss away Prime because "REEEEE Western!"
* Ridley: ... a man can dream though... a man can dream...

Aside from most of the ones that you mentioned (especially Toad and Ridley), I feel like any of the Zelda assist trophies (or at least any of the ones that were added in Smash 4) would have made for great playable characters. As Hyrule Warriors showed, there's definitely a lot of Zelda characters outside of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf that could make for interesting and unique playable characters.

Saki and Takamaru would also make for great playable characters; while I haven't played the Mysterious Murasame Castle, it seems like Takamaru has a surprisingly large amount of material to work with for a character who was in a single game, and I'd love to see them do more with the Sin & Punishment series.

 

[Opossum]

What characters are currently "trapped" by game-play roles that would be free to join the main roster in a brand new smash? I'll start a list and shout out any I miss.

* Toad: Give Peach a useful neutral
* Waluigi: Are Mario Bros vs Wario Bros fights too much to ask for?
* Lyn: as many FE characters as there are, you were the West's Marth. The first Lord.
* Ashley: Who's the girl next door, livig in the trophy?
* Dark Samus: Maybe if Japan didn't just toss away Prime because "REEEEE Western!"
* Ridley: ... a man can dream though... a man can dream...

Isabelle is the one that stands out the most to me.

 

[FalKoopa]

Unrelated, but curiosity got the better of me and I ended up watching Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid due to your icon.

Back on topic; If possible I'd like to see three Wario reps consisting of Wario (with his dash attack changed to his Wario Land one to have at least that if nothing else), Syrup and someone from WarioWare. That's pretty much a pipe dream though given that Wario Land seems to be for the most part forgotten by Nintendo.

I just wish they'd continue both series instead of relegating Wario to just being the microgame guy. I see it in more or less the same way I see Paper Mario turning into a general adventure game because apparently we can't have two Mario RPG series.

How did you like Dragon Maid?

And yeah, imo, a Warioware Character (Ashley preferably), A Wario Land character (Capt. Syrup) and Wario being a mix (or even his Brawl self) is the perfect Wario representation for me.

 

[Kirbeh]

How did you like Dragon Maid?

And yeah, imo, a Warioware Character (Ashley preferably), A Wario Land character (Capt. Syrup) and Wario being a mix (or even his Brawl self) is the perfect Wario representation for me.

I honestly didn't know what to expect going into it, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. The last episode felt a little rushed, but overall it was a good series.

Ditto on the Wario reps, though I really don't have a preference between Ashley, Mona, etc.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Hmmm.. I oughta make a Wario Land Wario moveset..

I wish Nintendo would make a new game. Shake It was the last one and that was a few years back. I want a co-op based Wario Land with Waluigi.

As for promoting Assist Trophies, how bout Tingle? Very popular in Japan where he has his own game, and is probably the 5th most reoccurng Zelda character behind Link, Zelda, Ganon and Impa. Or how bout Excitebiker?

 

[Deleted member]

Captain Falcon pilots the "Blue Falcon" and his attacks are themed after fire.

When you picture fire, does it instantly bring to mind birds, or the color blue? No? Okay then.

His abilities are still named after the namesake of his vehicle and his own moniker, however.

He isn't given some tiger themed attacks or dolphin themed attacks, for example. He throws fiery punches in the shape of a falcon.


"Blue" is also not an element, so your counterpoint makes little sense.
Aside from that, there are numerous correlations with birds and fire (the legendary phoenix that is reborn from its own ashes?), hence why the term "firebird" exists (which also coincidentally is linked to a type of classic sports car, which could come in blue) as well as the fact that blue flames are scientifically the flames that burn the hottest.

Literally nothing about Samurai Goroh, pilot of the Fire Stingray, using watery dragon-themed attacks makes any sense.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

There's a problem with the modern Mario Karts I have in that they made the Karts a free for all and with it, lost a lot of charm.

In Double Dash and DS all the characters had one or two unique karts that had a lot of personality but without the restriction of having to make Karts match up to characters, they seem to have become more generic. Probably just me though.

Technically, there are kart restrictions in Double Dash!!. You can't make a lightweight character use a heavyweight kart (except for the Parade Kart, which can be used regardless of your character combination), unless he/she is paired with a heavyweight character.

MK7 and MK8 have no vehicle restrictions whatsoever, and the stat spreads are more diverse between characters as well, unlike with MKDS, where only the weight stat is affected whenever characters use a specific kart.