Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[FunAtParties]

Is this actually true? If so it gives me pretty high hopes that Snake was among those top 5.

I do think Sakurai sees the outcry from Snake being cut so I think he'll at least consider him higher priority this time if he wasn't already last time. I don't know man, I just got a good feeling about this next Smash game in terms of Snake. And considering this is Smash Speculation I don't get to say that often if I ever have at all. One can hope.

I don't think he cut Snake for any other reasoning than licensing issues. Nintendo's relationship with Konami seems to be doing well now, so are return is definitely possible.

 

[Deleted member]

Wowowowowooooooooooooow, what's up with this sudden Lycanroc discussion?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Wowowowowooooooooooooow, what's up with this sudden Lycanroc discussion?

Agreed, there is only one earth-themed character we need in Smash and we all know who I am talking about.

 

[Luminario]

Agreed, there is only one earth-themed character we need in Smash and we all know who I am talking about.

It's about time you lot started to notice Earthworm Jim. Who's Isaac?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Even if this is a joke, why the hell do I disagree with 80% of what you say?

I think our tastes and reasonings are basically the oppositete...

I think you're reading into my posts too deeply. I've long accepted Bayonetta, even though it did upset me greatly innitially. As someone who supported King K.Rool dearly, you should understand this probably. As am quite sure King K.Rool has generated an equal amount of votes in the ballot, if not more, making him the 'true winner'.

BUT THEN AGAIN YOU ARE A FILTHY BAYONETTA MAIN AND YOU DESERVE NO MERCY, NOR SYMPATHY!

Cloud was NOT the winner but was influenced by the ballot iirc. He was added as there were LOADS of requests for a Final Fantasy character. Cloud was the most requested Final Fantasy character not to mention how he's the most iconic character in the franchise, so he was added after Sakurai noted that

Yeah so you're basically saying he was a heavily requested character since a very long time. More or less the same thing I said.

 

[Wolfie557]

I think you're reading into my posts too deeply. I've long accepted Bayonetta, even though it did upset me greatly innitially. As someone who supported King K.Rool dearly, you should understand this probably. As am quite sure King K.Rool has generated an equal amount of votes in the ballot, if not more, making him the 'true winner'.

BUT THEN AGAIN YOU ARE A FILTHY BAYONETTA MAIN AND YOU DESERVE NO MERCY, NOR SYMPATHY!

Yeah so you're basically saying he was a heavily requested character since a very long time. More or less the same thing I said.

inb4 Bayo still beat K Rool. I hope you'll be pissed then too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

inb4 Bayo still beat K Rool. I hope you'll be pissed then too.

Highly unlikely. Bayonetta support wasn't all that great before her reveal. Sure, it was there. But say, Shovel Knight even had ten times more vocal support. Sure, there's internet popularity and offline popularity but that doesn't mean that Bayonetta was the most popular. She was very popular and much requested, that's a given. She was simply chosen cause Sakurai favored her above other characters. This has been stated so many times before the last couple of pages, it's like you don't wanna read.

 

[Bowserlick]

King K. Rool would be a nice super heavy-weight addition for the next game.

Did we only get Bowser Jr. as a heavy character this time around?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Sure, it was there. But say, Shovel Knight even had ten times more vocal support.

That's exactly the thing - the fan polls conducted were limited in scope and pretty unreliable. The fact that very few people saw Bayonetta as a possible ballot choice pretty much confirms how off we were.

King K. Rool would be a nice super heavy-weight addition for the next game.

There's been an interesting absence of a Bowser/DK style super-heavy character in Smash 4.

 

[Wolfie557]

Yeah , sorry my cel is laggy.

No, but really, I think it's underrated.
Maybe the Lucario of Gen 7.

First Rockruff was "special", and was paired with the starters a lot.
Then Lycanroc appears a lot in the game.
Now those Pokemon Cards, an event and also Gladion has one in the anime and the edgy kid has one in the movie.
Also that rummored third Lycanroc form.

I don't know.

How dare you compare that dissapointingly weak Pokemon to Lucario.

Smh.

Highly unlikely. Bayonetta support wasn't all that great before her reveal. Sure, it was there. But say, Shovel Knight even had ten times more vocal support. Sure, there's internet popularity and offline popularity but that doesn't mean that Bayonetta was the most popular. She was very popular and much requested, that's a given. She was simply chosen cause Sakurai favored her above other characters. This has been stated so many times before the last couple of pages, it's like you don't wanna read.

Too bad you havent noticed all the likes I gave....

Anyways that was unnecessary, and so was the sentence on my part so sorry for that but I felt like I had to.

Whoever was to win, they wounldn't be the most popular vote. That's how the ballot works. Simple.
Her lack of vocal support was partially due to the naysayers and how hard it was for us few vocal supporters to persuade that yes she can work as many people would not bother thinking about it more than just scracthing the surface.

One positive echochamber was VGChartz. 100+ bayo voters were there during the start of the ballot. There isn't a dedicated smash fanbase there so the ballot hype died down very quickly. I saw her frequently on youtube comments tho not as much as other characters.

Minority vocal support was clearly relevant enough to get anything beyond Mii costumes, which tbf, is still pretty good. Maybe if they chose more characters from the ballot K Rool or other characters would have gotten in by now. They most likely will use the ballot soon...for Smash Switch. So just be patient.

 

[Opossum]

I think it's possible K. Rool was in the US Top 10, but definitely not above Bayonetta. There are a lot more things to factor in than just online echo chambers like Smashboards.

Honestly the top five for the US probably consisted of one or two non video game characters, Ridley, Snake, and Bayonetta.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That's exactly the thing - the fan polls conducted were limited in scope and pretty unreliable. The fact that very few people saw Bayonetta as a possible ballot choice pretty much confirms how off we were.

Well, I do understand Bayonetta being a popular choice. Most of the voters where obviously Wii U owners (am not one). And Bayonetta had her sequel released exclusively on Wii U. It was by many critics seen as one of the Wii U's stronger titles, and Bayonetta 1 did well on all other consoles.

Besides, as Sakurai already stated; most hugely popular Nintendo characters are already in. Compared to much of the Nintendo newcomers from Brawl, King K.Rool is a far more niche character. And I do realise that. Yet, his support was huge and shouldn't be underestimated.

There was a lot of fraud in the ballot as well. As it allowed us to vote multiple times. So maybe they also took meassures for that?

There's been an interesting absence of a Bowser/DK style super-heavy character in Smash 4.

Lol

'Middle weight' in Smash isn't actually middle weight, it's heavy weight cause there's just SO MANY light weight characters. Mario is a heavy weight character in Smash ever since Melee or so. He's still probably about the 20~15th heaviest character in Smash right now.

Light weight is pretty much the standard since Smash 4.

Also you speak of forum popularity, but still refer to one of THE MOST obnoxious "popular only on the internet" characters ever, Ridley. Honestly, without Smashboards and similar sites, Ridley wouldn't even be all that well known. It's pure his overactive internet fanbase that's so hard on pushing him into Smash, and I've found Sakurai's reactions to this absolutely hilarious.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly the top five for the US probably consisted of one or two non video game characters, Ridley, Snake, and Bayonetta.

Don't forget the Ballot specified for video game characters, votes for non-video characters have surely been dismissed.

 

[Zerp]

There was a lot of fraud in the ballot as well. As it allowed us to vote multiple times. So maybe they also took meassures for that?

They had to have at least done something to prevent registering repeat votes, otherwise I'm pretty sure that during the final presentation we would have seen Daisy or Dragonite instead of Bayonetta.

 

[Opossum]

Don't forget the Ballot specified for video game characters, votes for non-video characters have surely been dismissed.

I know. It shows how much I feel the Internet is good at following directions where I think at least one made the top five.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I think it's possible K. Rool was in the US Top 10, but definitely not above Bayonetta. There are a lot more things to factor in than just online echo chambers like Smashboards.

Honestly the top five for the US probably consisted of one or two non video game characters, Ridley, Snake, and Bayonetta.

ehhhhhhhhh

As much as I like Ridley, I don't think he did that well in the ballot. He is another niche character (no appearances since the unpopular Wii game) who was specifically taken down by Sakurai. A lot of people jumped ship after the 50 fact extravaganza so his popularity is/was lower than ever. Hell even in an echo chamber like SB, Ridley fans were pseudo-quarantined.

 

[Rran]

I'd really appreciate Palutena having her counter replaced with lightweight.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Why do people want cartoon and anime characters in Smash again?

Never saw the appeal in it.

 

[Schnee117]

Why do people want cartoon and anime characters in Smash again?

Never saw the appeal in it.

Why do people want any character in Smash?
Because they like the character and want them in a game where they can fight the likes of Mario and Sonic.

 

[Kirbeh]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if most of the top 10 were a batch of non-game characters in general. Goku and Spongebob had enough requests for Sakurai to point them out in an interview, and I'm sure plenty of other non-game characters be it legitimate wants or meme votes also got into high spots.

That said they more than likely just kept going down the list ignoring those for the actual "Top 5".

If they do something similar in the future, I kind of hope they do a Nintendo only ballot and pick the top 3 or 4 from there and then do a third party ballot and pick the top 1 or 2 or something along those lines.

I'm among the few that loved every character we got as DLC, but I do wish they'd gone on for a little longer so some more Nintendo newcomers could have gotten in.

 

[Wolfie557]

I'd really appreciate Palutena having her counter replaced with lightweight.

Ummm idk. Im so used to her current one. I want autoreticle changed tho...or at least very much improve that and the counter. Counters should have stat changes or something. Bayo's is the only non-knockback only one iirc.
I'll accept whatever. I doubt she will be changed tho.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Why do people want any character in Smash?
Because they like the character and want them in a game where they can fight the likes of Mario and Sonic.

Fine, let's put Teen Titans Go in Smash.

What, Cartoon Network says it's everyone's favorite show.

 

[Kirbeh]

Why do people want any character in Smash?
Because they like the character and want them in a game where they can fight the likes of Mario and Sonic.

True, but you still don't see people asking for this sort of thing with other games. Why not do the same with Capcom vs SNK or Marvel vs Capcom or J-Stars? Smash happens to be the game where people don't seem to care.

 

[A Distant Demon]

True, but you still don't see people asking for this sort of thing with other games. Why not do the same with Capcom vs SNK or Marvel vs Capcom or J-Stars? Smash happens to be the game where people don't seem to care.

Because games like that are specifically about one or two companies.

Meanwhile, games like Mortal Kombat have guys like Freddy Kreuger or Jason or guys like that. It isnt just smash, but because smash has so much variety since it isn about just one series or company and an extremely young userbase it just has a slightly better breeding ground.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Fine, let's put Uncle Grandpa in Smash.

What, Cartoon Network says it's everyone's favorite show.

Fixed.

At least we'd have our first playable reality warper.

Sorry Magolor.

 

[Luminario]

Fine, let's put Teen Titans Go in Smash.

What, Cartoon Network says it's everyone's favorite show.

No lie, I'd main Starfire and Raven in a heartbeat, even if they were like the horribly done characterization of TTG

 

[Schnee117]

True, but you still don't see people asking for this sort of thing with other games. Why not do the same with Capcom vs SNK or Marvel vs Capcom or J-Stars? Smash happens to be the game where people don't seem to care.

Because Smash Bros doesn't have a title that defines the companies involved. It's just "Super Smash Bros *insert subtitle here*"
You don't have people asking for Heihachi or Mario in MvC because it's clearly titled "Marvel vs Capcom"

Mortal Kombat has numerous horror icons (Jason, Freddy, Xenomorph, Predator and Leatherface) plus Kratos as guests.
Soul Calibur has had Star Wars, Assassin's Creed and Spawn among others.
Injustice has MK characters with Boon specifically asking about the likes of Hellboy and Spawn.
Heck, Tekken has Akuma plus two more guests coming in it's seventh main entry.

Smash isn't exclusive in that regard.

 

[n8han11]

To be honest, I'd be perfectly fine with forth-parties in Smash, as long as their movesets are fun to use.

 

[Zerp]

I think the fact that Nintendo is basically the video gaming world's equivalent to Disney also plays a part in more people wanting X in Smash than elsewhere, obviously a lot of people out there would want their favorite character in the same game as pop-culture titans such as Mario, Pikachu, Link, etc.

 

[Rran]

Ummm idk. Im so used to her current one. I want autoreticle changed tho...or at least very much improve that and the counter. Counters should have stat changes or something. Bayo's is the only non-knockback only one iirc.
I'll accept whatever. I doubt she will be changed tho.

My biggest beef with her counter, aside from it being the worst of its kind in the game, is that the move has kinda become commonplace now in the Smash games--sort of a "been there, done that" kinda thing. A switch to Lightweight would further distinguish the character and act as a better representing move from KI:U (also it's really, really good ;p).

Regarding Auto-reticule, I'd rather the move be improved upon than exchanged for something else, primarily because I like the idea of it--a unique projectile, but a bit inefficient in its current state.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

No lie, I'd main Starfire and Raven in a heartbeat, even if they were like the horribly done characterization of TTG

If it means a playable Cyborg, then I'd still like it. Booyah!

Fixed.

At least we'd have our first playable reality warper.

Sorry Magolor.

Toon Force =/= Reality Warping.

There a difference between the two and you don't get it.

Also, cue @TheDarkMetaKnight siccing Magolor on you.

 

[Kirbeh]

I get exactly why people want these characters, I just happen to be on the opposing side that doesn't want non-game characters in Smash.

Regarding things like Marvel vs Capcom though, the name doesn't define the game, the game and the ideas behind it are where the name comes from. Marvel vs Capcom was made specifically to be a crossover between Marvel and Capcom. Similarly, Smash Bros. isn't called Nintendo All-Stars Battle Royale (), but that's pretty much what it is. Guests are very special cases, which Sakurai has specified as needing to be the best of the best from games. Having third parties in the first place does open the floodgates, but it's something I hope they continue to be very careful with.

Could Sakurai (or his successor as director) change his mind on this in the future? Sure. (I just hope that they don't.)

I'd personally just rather see other crossovers be made to satisfy those. Maybe CN can put some money into actually making a good game to serve as a sequel to that Smash clone they made that one time. Stuff like that.

I do generally agree though, I always viewed guests in MK and SC differently for whatever reason, but I guess it kind of is the same thing. I guess since those games aren't already crossovers and guests were always carefully implemented (well most of the time at least; see Soul Calibur IV) it didn't really bother me as much.

I suppose for me is that I think there's a point where there's too much. With Nintendo's entire library of characters and plenty of third party games as viable choices, I'd be fine if they stuck to that. I just don't want them to lose focus and allow it to essentially become MUGEN.

Third party games is already a massive floodgate. Movies, cartoons, anime/manga, comics, etc. are multiple different beasts altogether imo. And I'm also probably just boring when it comes to my crossover desires.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tl;dr - I'm boring and just don't want crazy crossovers as much as others unless they're extremely specific like Marvel vs Capcom, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, cue @TheDarkMetaKnight siccing Magolor on you.

Pretty sure you meant to tag @IAmMetaKnight considering how dedicated he was to Magolor and he made the old thread for him, but Magolor would be a really fun character, he has the most fun potential out of the possible Kirby characters.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Pretty sure you meant to tag @IAmMetaKnight considering how dedicated he was to Magolor and he made the old thread for him, but Magolor would be a really fun character, he has the most fun potential out of the possible Kirby characters.

Whoops. My bad dude.

Don't send Nui on me.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I do think characters like K. Rool and Ridley placed high in the ballot. I absolutely do. Because no matter which way we want to cut it the vast majority of the votes on the ballot were from Hardcore Nintendo fans and Smash fans like ourselves. Most of the people who would have voted on that ballot probably came from the Smash fanbase any other votes probably came from the Nintendo fanbase. It's not like the ballot was the most widespread know thing that everybody seems to make it out to be. If that were the case Bayonetta for damn sure would not have been top 5 here. Not even close.

Ridley and K. Rool are beloved throughout the Nintendo Fandom. So seeing them as top 5 here is FAR from unlikely. Yeah, sure, there were probably some oddball picks like SpongeBob and Shrek but they probably came from jokesters. I understand that we're the vocal minority of all the Smash players out there but that ballot was arguably made for just that reason. To let that minority have their voices heard.

 

[Deleted member]

Because games like that are specifically about one or two companies.

Meanwhile, games like Mortal Kombat have guys like Freddy Kreuger or Jason or guys like that. It isnt just smash, but because smash has so much variety since it isn about just one series or company and an extremely young userbase it just has a slightly better breeding ground.

Springtrap for Mortal Kombat, when? :V

Or Smash, but I figure he'd more likely show up in MK than in Smash.

 

[Curious Villager]

Didn't Sakurai reveal at some point the total submissions for the ballot (Or at least, rounded up) in one of his interviews? It was apparently less than most thought it would be so they probably did have some sort of system in place to cull a number of votes, like multiple votes based on IP address and all. (Either that, or they wrapped up the ballot earlier than they let on and the rest of the votes of the rest of the month's where more towards future Smash games...)

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I think people overestimate the odds of some character like Goku or Shrek being within the Top 10, let alone the Top 5 worldwide.

With all regions to account for, how likely do you think any of those kind of characters received enough votes to be that high on the list?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

No matter what the reason, the requests for non-video game characters is still really stupid.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

No matter what the reason, the requests for non-video game characters is still really stupid.

What's the sound? it's the sound many triggered Goku fans in the end of universe.

Let's make like a tree before they Kamehameha our butts.